These new duty rules are going to be complicated…

[Jet Jockey]

Just found out that on top of when in the day or night you fly will have a big impact on your daily max duty day, now when you are away from home on a trip and you are several days not flying, meaning I fly to Paris and don’t move for five days before flying out again, those five days will count in you annual maximum hours you can work.

So the company will have to figure out that on those we will technically be on reserve for arguments sake, 12 hours a day or 60 hours for the fives days.

This total will count in the total annual max duty at work of 2200 hours.

So if by the end of November as an example you reach that number of 2200 hours, then you would not be able to work/ fly fir the remainder of the year.

[Dronepiper]

Which it should be.

Normal people work 40 hours a week. This works out to 2080 hours a year (not including vacation).

2200 hours of duty is more than what a normal person works.

Time away from home is considered work, even if you are sitting in Paris for 5 days.

Those 5 days in Paris, are 5 less days where you could be out at the lake with your wife and kids.

I don’t feel bad for the billionaires who will now need to hire more pilots to chauffeur them and their families across the world in their gulfstream.

[digits_]

They are still easier to understand than the average ALPA collective agreement.

[Loading...]

Just found out that on top of when in the day or night you fly will have a big impact on your daily max duty day, now when you are away from home on a trip and you are several days not flying, meaning I fly to Paris and don’t move for five days before flying out again, those five days will count in you annual maximum hours you can work.

So the company will have to figure out that on those we will technically be on reserve for arguments sake, 12 hours a day or 60 hours for the fives days.

This total will count in the total annual max duty at work of 2200 hours.

So if by the end of November as an example you reach that number of 2200 hours, then you would not be able to work/ fly fir the remainder of the year.

This is a good thing not a bad thing

[Jet Jockey]

Just found out that on top of when in the day or night you fly will have a big impact on your daily max duty day, now when you are away from home on a trip and you are several days not flying, meaning I fly to Paris and don’t move for five days before flying out again, those five days will count in you annual maximum hours you can work.

So the company will have to figure out that on those we will technically be on reserve for arguments sake, 12 hours a day or 60 hours for the fives days.

This total will count in the total annual max duty at work of 2200 hours.

So if by the end of November as an example you reach that number of 2200 hours, then you would not be able to work/ fly fir the remainder of the year.

This is a good thing not a bad thing

Never said it was a bad thing just that it might be complicated to keep up with all the new duty rules.

[JHR]

Some of these management companies haven't even begun to consider the impact this will have. They will just depend on the pilot to "git r done" probably hoping that the regs are too complicated to understand!

[bezerker]

Except reserve only counts 1/3 towards duty.

From CARs:

A flight crew member’s hours of work are to include

(a) in the case of a flight crew member on reserve, 33% of the time that they are in a reserve availability period.

So the 5 days reserve in Paris would only be 20 duty hours. Not to mention the day after arrival probably wouldn’t be available for duty.

You can be on reserve 12 hours a day, 365 days a year without exceeding the maximum hours of work.

[Jet Jockey]

Except reserve only counts 1/3 towards duty.

From CARs:

A flight crew member’s hours of work are to include

(a) in the case of a flight crew member on reserve, 33% of the time that they are in a reserve availability period.

So the 5 days reserve in Paris would only be 20 duty hours. Not to mention the day after arrival probably wouldn’t be available for duty.

You can be on reserve 12 hours a day, 365 days a year without exceeding the maximum hours of work.

Except we are not on "reserve"... we are away from home on duty! Reserve is at home base not in another country and the way the DFO explained it was that he would have to come up with a policy that when away from home and on duty, the customer would know that the pilots are available between for arguments sake 08h00 hours and 20H00 hours... From what he told us this means it would count as a 12 hour duty day.

Also sometimes we are on CAR's "resets" while away on an extended trip, 14/3 and the customer knows we can't fly on those days and if he needs to fly then another crew is deadheaded to pick up the trip.

[digits_]

Except reserve only counts 1/3 towards duty.

From CARs:

A flight crew member’s hours of work are to include

(a) in the case of a flight crew member on reserve, 33% of the time that they are in a reserve availability period.

So the 5 days reserve in Paris would only be 20 duty hours. Not to mention the day after arrival probably wouldn’t be available for duty.

You can be on reserve 12 hours a day, 365 days a year without exceeding the maximum hours of work.

Except we are not on "reserve"... we are away from home on duty! Reserve is at home base not in another country and the way the DFO explained it was that he would have to come up with a policy that when away from home and on duty, the customer would know that the pilots are available between for arguments sake 08h00 hours and 20H00 hours... From what he told us this means it would count as a 12 hour duty day.

Also sometimes we are on CAR's "resets" while away on an extended trip, 14/3 and the customer knows we can't fly on those days and if he needs to fly then another crew is deadheaded to pick up the trip.

Why do you make this sound like a bad thing?

[bezerker]

Well, I disagree.

From CARs:

flight crew member on reserve means a flight crew member who has been designated by an air operator to be available to report for flight duty on notice of more than one hour.

You are either on duty or free from duty. One or the other. If on reserve, it counts as 1/3 as far as duty time.

There is no distinction for being at home in YVR or being in Tokyo. You can be free from duty or on duty anywhere.

Like it or lump it, the new rules don’t help a whole lot for maximum days on reserve. You can be on reserve for 14 hours a day for 24 days straight.

Where they do help, is how many hours you can fly once called out when on reserve. If called out during your reserve period, you have a set end time.

[rudder]

Under the CAR’s definition of ‘duty period’ - TAFB is not duty. That logic would imply that sleep was included in duty. A duty period begins at commencement of duties prior to a flight duty period (otherwise known as check-in) and ends when the flight terminates. A duty period can also include company duties that must be accounted for. Examples are training, RSV, training pilot duties (SIM/IPT/classroom), or management pilots office time. At issue might be whether a day free from duty away from home base counts as a day off under the terms of an employment agreement.

Now, if your employer wants to put you on RSV on non-flying days away from home base that triggers another (reduced) liability for duty accrual in a calendar day that will count towards the 7/28/365 day duty limitations.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Which it should be.

Normal people work 40 hours a week. This works out to 2080 hours a year (not including vacation).

2200 hours of duty is more than what a normal person works.

Time away from home is considered work, even if you are sitting in Paris for 5 days.

Those 5 days in Paris, are 5 less days where you could be out at the lake with your wife and kids.

I don’t feel bad for the billionaires who will now need to hire more pilots to chauffeur them and their families across the world in their gulfstream.

Absolutely, these owners with more money (usually at some management company), Need to actually start paying the staff that serve them. “Some” business management flight companies out there stretch things way too thin. No revenue being generated by the pool owners and said management companies at all through tax caveats and crafty money “reorganizing” I’m sure lol.

[Loading...]

Just found out that on top of when in the day or night you fly will have a big impact on your daily max duty day, now when you are away from home on a trip and you are several days not flying, meaning I fly to Paris and don’t move for five days before flying out again, those five days will count in you annual maximum hours you can work.

So the company will have to figure out that on those we will technically be on reserve for arguments sake, 12 hours a day or 60 hours for the fives days.

This total will count in the total annual max duty at work of 2200 hours.

So if by the end of November as an example you reach that number of 2200 hours, then you would not be able to work/ fly fir the remainder of the year.

When are these rules going to be implemented?
And what can operators use to track flight and duty time with the new rules?
Thanks

[W5]

So if by the end of November as an example you reach that number of 2200 hours, then you would not be able to work/ fly fir the remainder of the year.

Is that per calendar year, or rolling year?

[goldeneagle]

s that per calendar year, or rolling year?

The year will be a consecutive 365 day period.

Where it's going to get really complicated for some folks, is when they change companies after being on the edge of the duty max for a considerable time. Try explain to your new boss that altho you have only been on the job for 2 weeks, you have hit your year duty limits and wont start resetting for another two weeks.

[Jet Jockey]

Deleted

[dude507]

My understanding is that all this is just for 703/704/705 and doesn’t apply to 604. However duty will be tracked just the same for those that do 704 flights as well, just to ensure prior to a 704 flight, previous duty and or rest has not been exceeded.

[flyinhigh]

Just found out that on top of when in the day or night you fly will have a big impact on your daily max duty day, now when you are away from home on a trip and you are several days not flying, meaning I fly to Paris and don’t move for five days before flying out again, those five days will count in you annual maximum hours you can work.

So the company will have to figure out that on those we will technically be on reserve for arguments sake, 12 hours a day or 60 hours for the fives days.

This total will count in the total annual max duty at work of 2200 hours.

So if by the end of November as an example you reach that number of 2200 hours, then you would not be able to work/ fly fir the remainder of the year.

News flash....International airlines having been dealing with this for 2 years and it is NOT doom and gloom unless you are a manager how likes to skrit the regs. You can monitor your duty times with software, quite simple actually but it means the operator may have to upgrade their systems.

[Speed_Bird1]

News Flash! Corporate and Management companies are not Airlines and don’t normally come with the month schedule that Airlines can easily manage!

These new regulations are proving to be a bit of a headache to manage, especially if you are flying a mix of overseas and continental and then throw in some 604 between. They were clearly designed with Airlines in mind and I believe pilots from Jazz and AC were part of the think tank discussions.

I’m not sure about you, but I go to work for a rest!!