Are Pilot wages actually that low?

[Arnie Pye]

These days, there's no reason you couldn't base yourself in Kuala Lumpur, work a contract job in Vietnam, shop in Singapore and vacation in Japan.

Cost of living in KL is 70% lower than in Canada. You'd live like a king in a Toronto sized city. Way better food too.

[Pacqing]

I worked at a Chevron drill site once as part of a fixed wing crew. The Chevron HSE guy had spent his career in the Gulf of Mexico and knew nothing of fixed wing ops. One day he casually asked the Captain how much he made and the when he heard the salary he said "I wouldn't get out of bed for that" Maybe not exactly pertaining to this post but I thought it interesting.

[Bede]

I’d say that list very well rounded for all three. USA and Australia would be on the top of the pile. Japan pays extremely well and all areas of aviation are not only flat out, but also highly regarded in their society as well.

I love Japan. I looked into contract flying there pre-Covid, but the pay seemed a lot less than China, for good reason I assume.
Any references for pay in Japan?

[Arnie Pye]

Thanks to the pandemic, I've worked with people that came from every overseas carrier you can think of. The advantage to China is in the tax treaty. I assume they pay that kind of money because you have to put up with the Chinese way of doing things. It isn't for everyone. You're only there because they don't have enough domestic talent with your experience and decision making.

Japan pays less but there is way less BS. You're a valued employee there to do a job and you're paid well for it. They want to keep you around.

Vietnam pays less but the cost of living is next to nothing. Easy to work for, easy place to go abroad and pick up a second citizenship.

Hong Kong based carriers will present you with a new contract every month. Sign it and continue, don't sign it and leave. Overseas bases were the key to any amount of happiness.

Middle East employers have an advantage in zero income tax. The only guys that I know who own a European castle worked in the Middle East.

Australia - pilots are now on the skilled immigration list. You have a few hoops to jump through but pay is much higher than Canada and you can live in Australia.

www.longreachaviation.com

Air Japan: $15,000 + 2 month bonus
Jetstar Japan $15500/month +10,000 signing bonus
Peach $14,000/month
SkyMark $148,000/year (Taxes paid)
Spring Airlines Japan $10,000 + 1 month bonus

*All numbers are in USD

[rooster]

Altiplano,

Oil patch workers, truckers, shift workers in all industries have these challenges. None of them are paid when not at work as part of their hourly workweek regardless of if they are in a hotel away from home or not.

If you feel disrespected by that or think that pilots are somehow special or different because of these challenges then probably not worth continuing the conversation. Making 20K a month gross means you make more than almost 99% of all other Canadians.

The facts are that other professions with similar challenges tend to get fewer days away off and are paid considerably less than pilots. There are examples of low wages in the aviation industry but that doesn't change the fact that pilots are generally well compensated at 705 levels with more time off than most other careers that share similar challenges.

tbaylx / CP Flair

This is my second career - I have been flying for 15 years professionally now and am still earning less than I was 30 years ago as a fresh graduate. Your 20k a month is still a very slim sliver of the entire industry. Most do not come anywhere near this. Taking the top layer and using that as an example is silly.

The fact remains that Canada - regardless of what industry pays less than most other western countries but is still one of the most expensive to live in.

The issue is beyond just aviation - but regardless of the argument as to the causes, there should be no reason why there is a large discrepancy between Canada and the US - or even NZ and Australia that have far smaller aviation sectors and are just as expensive to live.

Handover, I highlighted two things that piqued my interest in replying.

1) What exactly was the point in the "/CP Flair"? Did you think you were the worlds greatest detective for a minute deciphering who tbaylx was? Because it appears he's quite open about it if you read his posts, so you really didn't do anything there.

2) If you properly read his and atiplano's posts, you'd have figured out it was alti that used HIS/HER example of making $20K. It wasn't tbaylx claiming this and using it as an example.

You can step down from your self appointed pedestal now, you've accomplished nothing here but point out your incompetency.


To answer the OP, yes we are severely underpaid in Canada. You shouldn't need to come on a forum to figure that out given the information is publicly out there for you to clearly see.

[oldncold]

WELL lets look at the quality of life and pay shall we> several years back when me dad retired and moved to an apartment , stuck in the side of his sock drawer in the dresser was an old direct deposit pay from 1970 okanagan heli for the month i kept it for some reason, dad passed at the start of covid but I ocassionally pull that deposit stub . I with a smilse reflect including on the life we had all on 1000 dollars gross a month and 880 NET with health n dental for a family of 4 . one 3 year old car payments were 80 dollars a month. and 1 year left , rent 200 for a 3 bedroom bungalow on 3 acres in northern bc. utilites , insurance 80 dollars grocerey for 4 150- 2 00 dollars , entertainment 100 , savings 200.k. christmas was really big deal and after saving for a few years they bought a house in dunbar area vancouver for 32000 dollars 8 percent mortgage rate .

I kept that slip to reflect on that and as my baseline to see if my generation financially has kept up to my pops..

fast forward 52 years and put in the same 880 dollars in net from that 1970 pay slip into the bank of canada inflation calculator and you now need a $6587 . NET PAY a month 111, 000 gross to have the same buying power. so if you are $30,000 or more behind this figure its definately a struggle my first job was 4bucks and hour today that works out $2147.00// guess what the max ei was during pandemic >give your self a cookie 2147. lol // so as my generation of hair bands, 80s , heads for the retirement door, it wasnt easy for us either but with the 1.3 TRILLION IN NET FEDERAL DEBT whoa tighten the seat belt for your next 25 years

[Bug_Stomper_01]

WELL lets look at the quality of life and pay shall we> several years back when me dad retired and moved to an apartment , stuck in the side of his sock drawer in the dresser was an old direct deposit pay from 1970 okanagan heli for the month i kept it for some reason, dad passed at the start of covid but I ocassionally pull that deposit stub . I with a smilse reflect including on the life we had all on 1000 dollars gross a month and 880 NET with health n dental for a family of 4 . one 3 year old car payments were 80 dollars a month. and 1 year left , rent 200 for a 3 bedroom bungalow on 3 acres in northern bc. utilites , insurance 80 dollars grocerey for 4 150- 2 00 dollars , entertainment 100 , savings 200.k. christmas was really big deal and after saving for a few years they bought a house in dunbar area vancouver for 32000 dollars 8 percent mortgage rate .

I kept that slip to reflect on that and as my baseline to see if my generation financially has kept up to my pops..

fast forward 52 years and put in the same 880 dollars in net from that 1970 pay slip into the bank of canada inflation calculator and you now need a $6587 . NET PAY a month 111, 000 gross to have the same buying power. so if you are $30,000 or more behind this figure its definately a struggle my first job was 4bucks and hour today that works out $2147.00// guess what the max ei was during pandemic >give your self a cookie 2147. lol // so as my generation of hair bands, 80s , heads for the retirement door, it wasnt easy for us either but with the 1.3 TRILLION IN NET FEDERAL DEBT whoa tighten the seat belt for your next 25 years

111,000 gross isn’t the same buying power with the inflated real estate market in Canada. Operators are just now offering >$50/hr for AME’s….. it’s about 20 years too late and about 30 behind what it should be. Most guys that are still doing this are either contractors or working south of the border or overseas. Operators don’t want to pay, they know they will always find some license ANY license to get what they want. Canada has nobody to keep these companies in check. They’ll just do and pay what they want like always.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I’d say that list very well rounded for all three. USA and Australia would be on the top of the pile. Japan pays extremely well and all areas of aviation are not only flat out, but also highly regarded in their society as well.

I love Japan. I looked into contract flying there pre-Covid, but the pay seemed a lot less than China, for good reason I assume.
Any references for pay in Japan?

Just in helicopters. I know a few guys that work for JAL on the fixed side I could do some digging.

[Bede]

I had a friend years ago that worked for JAL on the DC-10 and then the 747. He wasn't terribly impressed and came back to Canada to work at Jazz.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

I had a friend years ago that worked for JAL on the DC-10 and then the 747. He wasn't terribly impressed and came back to Canada to work at Jazz.

That’s going back a very long time ago I would assume? I’ll ask, rotary guys get paid very well there but not as well as some of the other countries mentioned.

[Bede]

Yeah, probably at least 25.