Delta Warns Air Canada

[canadianpilot101]

How true is it that delta warned air canada that they will be starting to hire Canadian Pilots soon…

[Tbayer2021]

Difficult to prove this actually happened. I bet the best you'll get is someone piping up and claiming "I have it on good authority", or something along those lines. That being said, I fail to see why Delta would warn AC. Is AC the sole employer of pilots in Canada? Considering Delta belongs to a whole difference alliance than AC, I'll go ahead and call BS on this one.

[Core]

While who TF knows about this specific thing, there is the fact that middle and upper mgmt at airlines ALL talk to each other on a regular basis, regardless of their current level of competition. This holds true for all major corporations across all industries. For some reason people don't realize this. So, it's definitely possible. The issue here is if true someone could get very, very fired for divulging this to the peons. So I doubt it.

[daedalusx]

Legacy carriers in the USA have always been big on degrees, wonder if that will change
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/detail ... st-Officer

General Requirements
At least 23 years of age.
High school diploma or GED equivalent
Graduate of a four-year degree program from a college or university accredited by a U.S. Dept. of Education recognized accrediting organization is preferred.
Degrees obtained from a non-U.S. institution must be evaluated for equivalency to U.S. degrees by a member organization of the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES).

[fish4life]

Legacy carriers in the USA have always been big on degrees, wonder if that will change
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/detail ... st-Officer

General Requirements
At least 23 years of age.
High school diploma or GED equivalent
Graduate of a four-year degree program from a college or university accredited by a U.S. Dept. of Education recognized accrediting organization is preferred.
Degrees obtained from a non-U.S. institution must be evaluated for equivalency to U.S. degrees by a member organization of the National Association of Credential Evaluation Services (NACES).

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... applicants

[schnitzel2k3]

I don't see this happening, particularly under ALPA.

Unless the entire supply of US pilots at all the other carriers is completely exhausted, there is no need. Delta is the true NHL of the U.S airlines, so much so, the running meme is guys lying about AA being their forever home and peacing out to Delta a week later. Kinda like a WS vs AC scenario.

You'd likely see the bulk of regionals hire internaitonal long before Delta goes this route as Delta, to my knowledge isn't suffering as severely as any other carrier.

With regards to the U.S hiring international, at this point, and to my 3rd hand knowledge, only a small handful of guys have made it through the hiring process at the ULCC level, and even then, the visa still needs to be sorted out (it sounds like it's unclear if its an H1B, EB3 or something else).

A major ALPA player like Delta likely isn't going to need, in the short or medium term to activate this option.

[sportingrifle]

Like most rumours, there is a bit of truth in this. As Core pointed out, the executives of different airlines talk - a lot. In this case it wasn’t Delta but United Flt. Ops. warning AC Flt. Ops. that in the future US carriers would start aggressively recruiting in Canada. Not Air Canada specifically but Canada in general. FAA FSDO’s have also been told to prepare to ramp up license conversions. This is of concern to AC as we have many type endorsed junior pilots with little tying them to AC. In fact AC has already lost a handful of pilots to US carriers but they all already had the right to work in the US. (One of the benefits to AC of the DB pension is that it was a set of golden handcuffs.) While this is of concern to AC , it will be a much bigger concern to WJ and Flair et all where lifetime career earning expectations are much lower.

Delta is considering Canadian applicants who already have the right to work in the US. Spirit/Frontier are willing to sponsor Canadian applicants and have already started interviewing through Brookfield Aviation. Apparently they have had a very enthusiastic response.

Degrees for most legacy carriers have gone from a pre-requisite to highly desirable. Military
Experience is also looked upon very favourably. If you don’t have an ATPL and 500 MPIC you aren’t in the game. ALPA is of course opposed to all this but their position at this point is kind of irrelevant- they don’t do the hiring and with more and more smaller cities loosing air service all together due to a pilot shortage, it will be difficult for them to muster the political capital to oppose this.

For people starting out in their carrers, a US carrier could be a very attractive option. And for those “left behind”, an influx of Canadian pilots to the US will do more for wages and working conditions in Canada than any union could dream of.

[schnitzel2k3]

In this case it wasn’t Delta but United Flt. Ops. warning AC Flt. Ops. that in the future US carriers would start aggressively recruiting in Canada.

This makes more sense. Bring on the competition - if AC pilots uniting is great for conditions improving across the board, just wait until U.S carriers suck our industry dry. It might almost be time to upgrade my FAA CPL to an ATP.

The brain drain will be tough for Canadian carriers, but I don't imagine every Canadian airline pilot is going to run off to the U.S despite the earnings difference. on top, it'll finally mean that ACPA's bullshit about 'how we don't compete in the U.S market and can't compare' will finally be taken behind the barn and shot. Maybe double tapped for good measure.

[altiplano]

I'm sure the United statement is true... indeed these guys are always talking...

The Delta event was several months back and did happen - the Delta FOPS VP made a courtesy call to AC FOPS VP - "We have 600 applications on file from AC Pilots and we're hiring thousands."

Any wonder they pushed to fix flat pay? Secure there draw for me pilots? Who's interest is that mostly in? Of course the upstart New Hire benefits, but the fact is soon there won't even be any upstart New Hires if AC FOPS doesn't get real with pay.

They aren't saying outright how many they are losing from the list, how many didn't come back from furlough, how many applications aren't on file, but but the fact is that the shine on the Ol' AC Wings is gone for everyone but 30 year WB CAs.

AC pilot recruiting and retention is a management problem that will take cash money to fix. They will be back trying to convince us to take working condition cuts and efficiency improvements to make us work more forever In return for fixing what is their problem... Get ready for another NO.

[schnitzel2k3]

The Delta event was several months back and did happen - the Delta FOPS VP made a courtesy call to AC FOPS VP - "We have 600 applications on file from AC Pilots and we're hiring thousands."

AC pilot recruiting and retention is a management problem that will take cash money to fix. They will be back trying to convince us to take working condition cuts and efficiency improvements to make us work more forever In return for fixing what is their problem... Get ready for another NO.

[digits_]

They aren't saying outright how many they are losing from the list, how many didn't come back from furlough,

Isn't that something you/ACPA can determine from the seniority list?

[sanjet]

They aren't saying outright how many they are losing from the list, how many didn't come back from furlough, how many applications aren't on file, but but the fact is that the shine on the Ol' AC Wings is gone for everyone but 30 year WB CAs.

I just spoke to a AC 777 captain who is in talks to fly a 777 cargo out of the states. They will sponsor him, he is 56 and will need to only work 2-3 years there with the huge wage increase to retire instead of flying to 65 here at AC. It's not just the to younger folks looking...

[JHR]

Last pilot to leave this socialist wasteland turn out the lights please

[727driver]

Based on the weakness of the last MOA proposal that just was voted down overwhelmingly I would call BS that AC was advised by any US legacy carrier they were going to hire Canadian pilots anytime soon. Based on the perceived gains by Management and MEC there is no existential threat of a mass exodus that warrants better WAWCONS the ensure pilot retention in the future.

[Ash Ketchum]

I am in the process of converting my license to the FAA ATP and have spoken to quite a few airlines down in the US. They all seem interested but for the most part (Australian citizens excepted) they still require the right to work in the US without sponsorship. Until that changes I don't think we will see significant wage improvements in Canada.

[fish4life]

I stop hoping for some company coming to rescue Canadian aviation, it’s not going to be mainline carriers sponsoring pilots if anything it will be the regionals.

[altiplano]

I just spoke to a AC 777 captain who is in talks to fly a 777 cargo out of the states. They will sponsor him, he is 56 and will need to only work 2-3 years there with the huge wage increase to retire instead of flying to 65 here at AC. It's not just the to younger folks looking...

You're right. I'm not sure who that is, but I know at least one is already gone on a similar program, 777CA, took their pension early and left for a US Cargo contract. I heard it was $500K USD with housing/expenses paid.

That's the program. Why stay here to milk a few hundred dollars more into your overfunded pension when you can go make real money, double dip with your pension on top of it, and pay less tax on it all...

No brainer.

[altiplano]

They aren't saying outright how many they are losing from the list, how many didn't come back from furlough,

Isn't that something you/ACPA can determine from the seniority list?

Seniority list is published only once a year, or you can flip through documents describing pilots moving to active/inactive status, etc. every bid but you'd have to compare and put it together...

[Protonpilot]

The Delta event was several months back and did happen - the Delta FOPS VP made a courtesy call to AC FOPS VP - "We have 600 applications on file from AC Pilots and we're hiring thousands."

AC FOPS VP related this story to you? Or was it a guy you know, who was at the training centre, who heard a manager say that...

I'll take that one with a grain of salt, next time I run into MS at the CAE training centre I'll ask.

Assuming this is true (big if)...how many of those 600 have a right to work in the US? You do know that ALPA is dead against foreign pilots working in the US? I'm just not reading the tea leaves the way you are.

We're sitting down with the Company in six months for main table, pretty sure the reopener isn't going to get renewed. The big show. I hope our negotiating strategy doesn't hinge on the threat, "Open up your wallet or we're all going to the US".

Can we please keep this in the real world?

[lownslow]

they still require the right to work in the US without sponsorship

Sponsorship isn’t required if you can swing an EB-2 NIW. Someone with a background in training and checking ought to be able to get in with a well-worded application letter. Contact the US consulate for details on the process.