Negotiations

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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

In the ‘internet’ age, anybody can do an employer analysis simply by going on the web and looking at what current and other prospective employees are saying about the REAL issues such as WAWCON - and in the case of Jazz - AC flow.

There is no lack of information out there. Not all is credible but rather subjective. But the empirical or objective information stands on its own merit. You cannot dispute facts.
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dhc#
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Re: Negotiations

Post by dhc# »

So what does Jazz look like as a downsized company 6,12 or even 18 months down the road in terms of fleet/routes/pilot staffing ?

Anyone care to crystal ball the future ??
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Re: Negotiations

Post by KenoraPilot »

rudder wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:20 am
KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:45 pm
RVR6000 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:10 pm What’s the bid showing in terms of vacancies. Are new hire classes being filled? What’s the experience level like.
170+ vacancies
Lots of YYZ CA
New Hire Classes are 19-20 every 3 weeks
New Hire Experience 20% ATPL, 20% College, 60% 703/704 CPL
With that experience level, how are CA vacancies going to be filled?

The posted CA vacancies do not include AC flow and resignation attrition.
I was only giving factual answers to a question, not any solutions to the current f'd up state of Jazz.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Negotiations

Post by KenoraPilot »

dhc# wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:16 pm So what does Jazz look like as a downsized company 6,12 or even 18 months down the road in terms of fleet/routes/pilot staffing ?

Anyone care to crystal ball the future ??
80 total tails in 2025+
800 pilots
US routes protected, domestic flying sacrificed
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

dhc# wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:16 pm So what does Jazz look like as a downsized company 6,12 or even 18 months down the road in terms of fleet/routes/pilot staffing ?

Anyone care to crystal ball the future ??
Line pilots in January 2023 was 1150. Projected line positions are 1326.

I would crystal ball:

January 2024 Line pilots 1100. Projected line positions 1200
January 2025 Line pilots 1000. Projected line positions 1100
January 2026 Line pilots 950. Projected line positions 950

CBA guarantees or not, Jazz (Express) is shrinking. You can have 105 airframes but if they are not being fully utilized due to pilot staffing issues, the ‘12 pilots per plane’ ratio is no longer applicable.
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Babar350
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Babar350 »

Last seniority list is showing a little more than 1500. What am I missing ?
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

Babar350 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:30 pm Last seniority list is showing a little more than 1500. What am I missing ?
Med leave. LOA. Management. Training dept. None are active line pilots.

Equipment bid is based on line pilots required.

So in January, of the 1500+ over 350 were considered either ‘inactive’ or non-line pilot.
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Inverted2
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Inverted2 »

I hate to say it but we have an almost too good long term disability thing going at Jazz. It’s costing active pilots a lot in deductions. There are probably close to 180 pilots on it now. Some have been for 25+ years.
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

Inverted2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:33 am I hate to say it but we have an almost too good long term disability thing going at Jazz. It’s costing active pilots a lot in deductions. There are probably close to 180 pilots on it now. Some have been for 25+ years.
Likely more than 180. 200+. It has been that way for well over a decade.

The issue is not number of pilots on med leave (although that number is shockingly high considering the size and age demographic of the group), it is the average duration of that med leave (including no return to flying - ever) which creates the aggregate claim amount and actuarial liability which is reflected in the rapidly increasing disability premiums.

The disability system was never intended to operate as “from now to retirement age” with no underlying duration limit but that is how it is being administered.
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Inverted2
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Inverted2 »

Exactly. For example: If you’re off from stress then you should be assisted in finding a less stressful job. Getting paid 6 figures to stay at home for 20 years would definitely reduce some stress but it doesn’t make it ok. Need a reminder, look at the deductions from your pay stub.

There was the guy off work for years for a ‘bad back’ that was seen walking around carrying boat motors and scuba tanks and nobody said anything. He stayed on LTD right to 65.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

Inverted2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:19 am Exactly. For example: If you’re off from stress then you should be assisted in finding a less stressful job. Getting paid 6 figures to stay at home for 20 years would definitely reduce some stress but it doesn’t make it ok. Need a reminder, look at the deductions from your pay stub.

There was the guy off work for years for a ‘bad back’ that was seen walking around carrying boat motors and scuba tanks and nobody said anything. He stayed on LTD right to 65.
FWIW - the ‘snapshot’ of earnings that would have been used to calculate the disability benefit payment would have been taken at the time (first day of sick leave - definition of ‘pre-disability earnings’). It is not indexed. So an LTD benefit level at 6 figures would only be a recent development and would only apply to a top scale CA.

Having said that, it is the annual aggregate of claims paid (plus an administration fee on the order of 20-30%) that is used to calculate each following year’s premium. So even a lower individual historical payout amount but paid to a large disability population generates a high total disability payment disbursement for the group.

Reducing the benefit level is not the answer. Expediting Pilot recovery and return to flying duties in concert with returning the definition of disability beyond 7 years to ‘totally and permanently disabled from performing any form of work’ would go a long way towards reducing the annual aggregate claim amounts and therefore premiums.
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Old fella »

Inverted2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:33 am I hate to say it but we have an almost too good long term disability thing going at Jazz. It’s costing active pilots a lot in deductions. There are probably close to 180 pilots on it now. Some have been for 25+ years.
Wow… from those on the outside, please forgive us for thinking that is very generous. Even where I came from it wasn’t that good, then again it’s the ole adage - nothing is free. The deductions from your salary certainly reflects the continuous generosity.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

Old fella wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:27 am
Inverted2 wrote: Sat Jan 28, 2023 6:33 am I hate to say it but we have an almost too good long term disability thing going at Jazz. It’s costing active pilots a lot in deductions. There are probably close to 180 pilots on it now. Some have been for 25+ years.
Wow… from those on the outside, please forgive us for thinking that is very generous. Even where I came from it wasn’t that good, then again it’s the ole adage - nothing is free. The deductions from your salary certainly reflects the continuous generosity.
Sick leave (first 30 days) - 100% of pre disability pay with all applicable deductions

Short term disability (day 31-365) - 60% of pre disability pay with applicable deductions excluding income tax (as benefit premium was paid 100% by pilot). Company pays 100% of benefit premiums.

Long term disability - (day 366 and beyond) - 70% of pre disability pay with all applicable deductions (including income tax). Company pays 100% of benefit premiums and Pilot portion of pension contribution.

The result is a net monthly payment of approximately 50% of gross. FYI - top paid Jazz pilot is base pay approx $158k (Training Dept). A new-hire starts at around $42k. Overtime does not apply in calculation of pre disability pay.

The issue is not the benefit calculation, it is the volume of claims, length of disability, and the resulting annual aggregate claim amount. Typical claimant on LTD is a tenured CA (10th year pay scale or higher).

I am not sure the benefit level described above is exceedingly above standard. By way of comparison, I had an acquaintance at AC on GDIIP who was receiving a NET monthly benefit of $11,000.
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prop2jet
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Re: Negotiations

Post by prop2jet »

The time off taken by those on disability is also a function of the amount of time wasted sitting around to see a specialist. Then add the time it takes for TC medical to review and respond. If you ask me, I am willing to bet at least 50% of the "time off" could be scaled down if bureaucratic red tape were cut.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Negotiations

Post by KenoraPilot »

Temp Base:

25 CYYC Q400 Captain to go to YYZ for March 2023
4 CYYC Q400 FO to YYZ

YYC gonna get hammered......
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Malfunction
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Malfunction »

Are you suprised... there's no flying out west
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

Malfunction wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 5:07 pm Are you suprised... there's no flying out west
Correction. There is no flying out of YYC. Lots of flying out of YVR.
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link821
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Re: Negotiations

Post by link821 »

Plenty of FOs out west that could take left seats if the company would offer DHs from the west…a broke FOs dream I guess.
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

They can't force anyone to take a temp base. So if no one applies, they will be forced to DH people around the country.

"I am an army of one, or two, or three hundred."
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link821
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Re: Negotiations

Post by link821 »

If no one bids it…then they start at the bottom the seniority list and work their way up till the 25 positions are filled.
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