Negotiations

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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Negotiations

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

JHR wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:36 pm Step 1....stop all voluntary overtime!
Scroll up for a link I poster earlier.

This is still considered an “unlawful strike”
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

CaptDukeNukem wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:00 pm
JHR wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:36 pm Step 1....stop all voluntary overtime!
Scroll up for a link I poster earlier.

This is still considered an “unlawful strike”
Only if it is organized. Or if people are shamed or any other tactic is used to stop people from picking up overtime. But if it is an individuals personal choice...

"I'm an army of one... or two... or three hundred."
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teacher
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Re: Negotiations

Post by teacher »

truedude wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:07 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:00 pm
JHR wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:36 pm Step 1....stop all voluntary overtime!
Scroll up for a link I poster earlier.

This is still considered an “unlawful strike”
Only if it is organized. Or if people are shamed or any other tactic is used to stop people from picking up overtime. But if it is an individuals personal choice...

"I'm an army of one... or two... or three hundred."
What they said ☝️

“Voluntary overtime” is just that, “voluntary”.
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bcflyer
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Re: Negotiations

Post by bcflyer »

702pipeliner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:56 pm Lmao. Can't strike even if you wanted to. Government always gets involved and prevents a strike. Look at harper and air canada. Trudeau and ontario teachers.
Stop spreading this misinformation. The constitutional right to strike has been upheld by the Supreme Court. The reason AC pilots got screwed was because the ACPA LRD decided it wasn’t worth fighting for. (They we’re proven wrong btw)
If you are in a legal strike position you have every right to go on strike.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

bcflyer wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:37 am If you are in a legal strike position you have every right to go on strike.
100%. It is called “self help”.

However, the Federal government has the authority to pass legislation removing that individual right either prior to or during an otherwise ‘legal’ strike. Such legislation subject to legal challenge, after the fact, and in a typically drawn out process rendering the challenge moot.
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702pipeliner
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Re: Negotiations

Post by 702pipeliner »

bcflyer wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:37 am
702pipeliner wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:56 pm Lmao. Can't strike even if you wanted to. Government always gets involved and prevents a strike. Look at harper and air canada. Trudeau and ontario teachers.
Stop spreading this misinformation. The constitutional right to strike has been upheld by the Supreme Court. The reason AC pilots got screwed was because the ACPA LRD decided it wasn’t worth fighting for. (They we’re proven wrong btw)
If you are in a legal strike position you have every right to go on strike.
Yes they were proven wrong. It is not a statement meant to spread disinformation.

More of a statement to show what lengths the government would intervene to actively prevent a strike. Unfortunately in jazz case they have given up the right to strike. So any attempts to do so would be deemed as illegal per contract.

They maybe able to fight that contract because Air Canada is not upholding there's. But that's a different story.

I doubt you will ever get enough people unified to go strike/work to rule/no overtime.

Jazz is to fractured right now.
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Inverted2
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Inverted2 »

A few pens could shut the whole thing down with maintenance snags, also due to the super deadly WuFlu you shouldn’t come to work if you have any mild cold like symptoms. Just sayin! :lol:
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

702pipeliner wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:23 am I doubt you will ever get enough people unified to go strike/work to rule/no overtime.
Are you kidding. The one thing the majority of Jazz pilots are unified on is, we are fed up being paid this poorly (did you see Horizons pay scale?). Not that we are in a position to legally strike, but if we were, I have no doubt a strike vote would pass with a strong majority. And even if we aren't taking any official labour action, one has to wonder just how productive a disgruntled labour force is?

A year a go an argument could be made things aren't the same as the U.S. But when we are cutting 14% capacity and canceling routes because we can't staff our airline, that argument no longer holds true.
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digits_
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Re: Negotiations

Post by digits_ »

truedude wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:06 am one has to wonder just how productive a disgruntled labour force is?
You see this in every level of aviation. Companies will fight tooth and nail to piss you off over parking tickets, overtime calculations or mileage payments to save a few dollars, yet happily give you control of a multi million dollar asset. On the current path, I fear some will just not care anymore.

I'm impressed by the professionalism of a lot of those underpaid pilots, to still be easy on the brakes while taxiing, not use full reverse, save fuel during cruise etc.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

702pipeliner wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:23 am
Jazz is to fractured right now.
Companies succeed (or fail) based on culture.

All employees across all departments need to feel like and act as a team. There must be a real sense of common purpose.

Underlying that, there must be respect and acknowledgement of value of employee input which is reflected in compensation which must meet or exceed industry standard. In the case of a labour shortage, it must exceed industry standard in order to attract the best qualified candidates. And true industry leaders are willing to set a new standard as part of a culture of success which then engenders pride for its staff.

Look for these characteristics. Do they exist at your company? If not, why not? Are there other potential employers that embrace these criteria?

Then make a choice.
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

We are at a point in Canada that whomever can crew their airplanes will survive. Had management at AC acknowledged this fact last year and acted appropriately, we could have delt some serious damage to our competitors. Instead they ignored reality, attempted a goofy work around of flow, and in the end our competition did some serious damage to us.

The level of stupid it took to get to this point is simply staggering.
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RVR6000
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Re: Negotiations

Post by RVR6000 »

What’s the bid showing in terms of vacancies. Are new hire classes being filled? What’s the experience level like.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Negotiations

Post by KenoraPilot »

RVR6000 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:10 pm What’s the bid showing in terms of vacancies. Are new hire classes being filled? What’s the experience level like.
170+ vacancies
Lots of YYZ CA
New Hire Classes are 19-20 every 3 weeks
New Hire Experience 20% ATPL, 20% College, 60% 703/704 CPL
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:45 pm
RVR6000 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:10 pm What’s the bid showing in terms of vacancies. Are new hire classes being filled? What’s the experience level like.
170+ vacancies
Lots of YYZ CA
New Hire Classes are 19-20 every 3 weeks
New Hire Experience 20% ATPL, 20% College, 60% 703/704 CPL
With that experience level, how are CA vacancies going to be filled?

The posted CA vacancies do not include AC flow and resignation attrition.
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

rudder wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:20 am
KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:45 pm
RVR6000 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:10 pm What’s the bid showing in terms of vacancies. Are new hire classes being filled? What’s the experience level like.
170+ vacancies
Lots of YYZ CA
New Hire Classes are 19-20 every 3 weeks
New Hire Experience 20% ATPL, 20% College, 60% 703/704 CPL
With that experience level, how are CA vacancies going to be filled?

The posted CA vacancies do not include AC flow and resignation attrition.
Jazz management is currently operating under the "Rainbows and Unicorns" plan.
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canadian_aviator_4
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Re: Negotiations

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

rudder wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:20 am
KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:45 pm
RVR6000 wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:10 pm What’s the bid showing in terms of vacancies. Are new hire classes being filled? What’s the experience level like.
170+ vacancies
Lots of YYZ CA
New Hire Classes are 19-20 every 3 weeks
New Hire Experience 20% ATPL, 20% College, 60% 703/704 CPL
With that experience level, how are CA vacancies going to be filled?

The posted CA vacancies do not include AC flow and resignation attrition.
I’m curious why an atpl in their right mind go to jazz. They have spent so much time and money to get to this point in their career, of which they should be quite proud, only to deal with poor pay yet and low moral yet again, after more than likely coming from the definition of poor pay and low moral: The Canadian 703.
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RockSalty
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Re: Negotiations

Post by RockSalty »

canadian_aviator_4 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:12 am
rudder wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:20 am
KenoraPilot wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:45 pm

170+ vacancies
Lots of YYZ CA
New Hire Classes are 19-20 every 3 weeks
New Hire Experience 20% ATPL, 20% College, 60% 703/704 CPL
With that experience level, how are CA vacancies going to be filled?

The posted CA vacancies do not include AC flow and resignation attrition.
I’m curious why an atpl in their right mind go to jazz. They have spent so much time and money to get to this point in their career, of which they should be quite proud, only to deal with poor pay yet and low moral yet again, after more than likely coming from the definition of poor pay and low moral: The Canadian 703.
Plenty of 703 skippers out there would have to take a sizeable paycut even to go DEC at Jazz. Plenty of us are also getting called by AC/WJ/Flair so aren't even remotely considering Jazz as an option.
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mmm...bacon
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Re: Negotiations

Post by mmm...bacon »

^ Indeed. Why would I take a ~$35k paycut to go BOTL at a location that I don't even know going in?
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Inverted2
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Inverted2 »

You do it for your dream shot at Big Red. 3-4 years of lousy pay at Jazz followed by 4 years of lousy pay at AC. What’s not to love?

*And those timelines are predicated on no major recession or new Covid-19 being released*
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Nick678
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Nick678 »

That dream is dead, faster to get to AC from any other company than jazz, proven. Without flow there’s no point in coming here. Jazz is be a slow sinking ship, those that can should abandon.
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