Negotiations

[cdnavater]

Yes rudder,

But AC owns a good chunk of CHR and Jazz. They just don't like playing nicely.

However, regardless of the AC ownership, if they give something to Jazz pilots like a free commute they would most certainly do the same for AC pilots.
As a commuter I would welcome a less stressful and free commute and it would actually make a significant difference in my life. For example, I have had to go to work up to two days before I needed to be there because of the policy.
Two flight and reasonable expectation of getting to work is not always easy to follow day of or even the day before, I have lost many days off to this over the years. I feel for those without a policy.

[Rowdy]

Yes rudder,

But AC owns a good chunk of CHR and Jazz. They just don't like playing nicely.

However, regardless of the AC ownership, if they give something to Jazz pilots like a free commute they would most certainly do the same for AC pilots.
As a commuter I would welcome a less stressful and free commute and it would actually make a significant difference in my life. For example, I have had to go to work up to two days before I needed to be there because of the policy.
Two flight and reasonable expectation of getting to work is not always easy to follow day of or even the day before, I have lost many days off to this over the years. I feel for those without a policy.

I was meaning it would be a good policy change for both AC and Jazz. I was sad to see WJ ditch it's portal system. Does AC even have the commute policy we have at Jazz?

There are a bunch of US airlines and regionals that PAY the commute (POS) and if you can't make the flight home, you get a hotel.

[kiaszceski]

Yes rudder,

But AC owns a good chunk of CHR and Jazz. They just don't like playing nicely.

However, regardless of the AC ownership, if they give something to Jazz pilots like a free commute they would most certainly do the same for AC pilots.
As a commuter I would welcome a less stressful and free commute and it would actually make a significant difference in my life. For example, I have had to go to work up to two days before I needed to be there because of the policy.
Two flight and reasonable expectation of getting to work is not always easy to follow day of or even the day before, I have lost many days off to this over the years. I feel for those without a policy.

I was meaning it would be a good policy change for both AC and Jazz. I was sad to see WJ ditch it's portal system. Does AC even have the commute policy we have at Jazz?

There are a bunch of US airlines and regionals that PAY the commute (POS) and if you can't make the flight home, you get a hotel.

This is what should have happened if pilots had the guts to strike.
https://www.aviation24.be/airports/berl ... wednesday/

[702pipeliner]

Lmao. Can't strike even if you wanted to. Government always gets involved and prevents a strike. Look at harper and air canada. Trudeau and ontario teachers.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Lmao. Can't strike even if you wanted to. Government always gets involved and prevents a strike. Look at harper and air canada. Trudeau and ontario teachers.

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

[truedude]

Lmao. Can't strike even if you wanted to. Government always gets involved and prevents a strike. Look at harper and air canada. Trudeau and ontario teachers.

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

You don't need to officially strike to have an impact. Jazz pilots in 2010 managed to get the company to reverse their nonsense without striking.

YYZ AC rampies initiated a wildcat strike on the 00's, which was rather successful.

A letter written by a Continental pilot in the 80s has been circling in some circles, and one quote in particular stood out to me, "They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum."

There is nothing worse than a workforce that feels unappreciated, ignored, or marginalized. The effects may not be immediately quantifiable by an accountant, but will cost more than any raise in the long run.

More pilots just gave notice to Jazz, going to places not AC. Full lines that will now need to be covered in February. People leaving in the middle of training... Must be getting expensive...

By the way, I am not endorsing or encouraging any illegal job action. We don't need to. It is falling apart on its own through gross incompetence at the executive level.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Lmao. Can't strike even if you wanted to. Government always gets involved and prevents a strike. Look at harper and air canada. Trudeau and ontario teachers.

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

You don't need to officially strike to have an impact. Jazz pilots in 2010 managed to get the company to reverse their nonsense without striking.

YYZ AC rampies initiated a wildcat strike on the 00's, which was rather successful.

A letter written by a Continental pilot in the 80s has been circling in some circles, and one quote in particular stood out to me, "They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum."

There is nothing worse than a workforce that feels unappreciated, ignored, or marginalized. The effects may not be immediately quantifiable by an accountant, but will cost more than any raise in the long run.

More pilots just gave notice to Jazz, going to places not AC. Full lines that will now need to be covered in February. People leaving in the middle of training... Must be getting expensive...

By the way, I am not endorsing or encouraging any illegal job action. We don't need to. It is falling apart on its own through gross incompetence at the executive level.

You’re not wrong.

Like you said, an unappreciated work force is poison for the company. And yes, doing the minimum required of you might be a way to make the company incur extra costs which may or may not bring the company to the table.(also I’m not endorsing this behavior)

But personally, I can only tolerate so much low morale and lack of enthusiasm for so long. It bogs me down. When management treats their staff well, it’s proven to increase profitability. Unfortunately, some airlines seem to have partly forgotten that.

[truedude]

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

You don't need to officially strike to have an impact. Jazz pilots in 2010 managed to get the company to reverse their nonsense without striking.

YYZ AC rampies initiated a wildcat strike on the 00's, which was rather successful.

A letter written by a Continental pilot in the 80s has been circling in some circles, and one quote in particular stood out to me, "They used to enjoy my maximum. Now they will suffer my minimum."

There is nothing worse than a workforce that feels unappreciated, ignored, or marginalized. The effects may not be immediately quantifiable by an accountant, but will cost more than any raise in the long run.

More pilots just gave notice to Jazz, going to places not AC. Full lines that will now need to be covered in February. People leaving in the middle of training... Must be getting expensive...

By the way, I am not endorsing or encouraging any illegal job action. We don't need to. It is falling apart on its own through gross incompetence at the executive level.

You’re not wrong.

Like you said, an unappreciated work force is poison for the company. And yes, doing the minimum required of you might be a way to make the company incur extra costs which may or may not bring the company to the table.(also I’m not endorsing this behavior)

But personally, I can only tolerate so much low morale and lack of enthusiasm for so long. It bogs me down. When management treats their staff well, it’s proven to increase profitability. Unfortunately, some airlines seem to have partly forgotten that.

The thing is, people will start doing the minimum without actually consciously trying to do the minimum. They will feel deflated, exhausted, and as a result, people will slowly stop going above on beyond. The result is achieved simply through being treated with an obvious level of contempt.

Failing to honour the 60% flow was likely the single biggest mistake anyone could have made. That alone likely cost Air Canada more than any raise would have.

[mmm...bacon]

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

Just asking, but if AC/Jazz isn't honouring the 60% hiring, then why should/would pilots honour the 'no strike 'til '35' clause?

[goleafsgo]

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

Just asking, but if AC/Jazz isn't honouring the 60% hiring, then why should/would pilots honour the 'no strike 'til '35' clause?

Because that’s not a clause, it would be illegal to strike while still having a contract in place.

[truedude]

Because that’s not a clause, it would be illegal to strike while still having a contract in place.

You mean the legal contract that is being ignored and violated?

In any case, you don't need to strike, the place is coming unglued at the seems everyday, and it will only get worse before it gets better. The pilots don't need to go on strike, or take any job action, because management has done a pretty good job of destroying the airline without our help.

The only thing the pilots need to do is stand by our current contract (which the company wanted and required we sign to 2035) until such a time they are prepared to make meaningful changes. Something in line with the Horizon payscale. Anything less is simply insulting.

[rando]

Walmart employees, with no union and with no negotiating, given a 15 percent raise (U.S. stores, nationwide). Watching closely as American workforce’s are keeping up with or exceeding inflation.

E04DA608-528A-4F99-8732-5ACB487C8EB1.jpeg (155.42 KiB) Viewed 852 times

Here in canada…

[truedude]

By the way, this is Horizons pay scale. To fly the same airplanes we do.

Year Captain First Officer
1 $149.18 $90.00
2 $153.00 $97.50
3 $156.83 $105.00
4 $160.65 $108.75
5 $168.30
6 $172.14
7 $175.95
8 $179.78
9 $183.60
10 $191.25
11 $195.08
12 $198.90
13 $202.73
14 $206.55
15 $210.38
16 $215.00


This is what we are worth. Not one penny less. And it is time Canadian airlines realize this. Fight for what we are worth. Demand what you are worth. Settle for nothing less. Until then, smile as you continue to operate under the contract that the company shoved down our throats until 2035, and joyfully remind them it is what they wanted. And do not give them an inch, until they are prepared to pay what we are worth.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Yup. Might last a day on the picket line before someone says back to work or you’ll get a daily fine. Not to mention jazz cannot strike until 2035.

Just asking, but if AC/Jazz isn't honouring the 60% hiring, then why should/would pilots honour the 'no strike 'til '35' clause?

Because Unlawful strikes are well…… unlawful.

That includes any “work to rule” campaigns, or a concerted effort to ban OT pickups.

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

Canada Labour Code

Violating a section of the CBA, should be resolved in grievances and mediation.

[truedude]

Because Unlawful strikes are well…… unlawful.

That includes any “work to rule” campaigns, or a concerted effort to ban OT pickups.

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

Canada Labour Code

Violating a section of the CBA, should be resolved in grievances and mediation.

Maybe you should read that Continental letter from the 80s. Here is a quote from it "I am an army of one. Or two. Or three hundred."

Moral is is low it doesn't take any organized action to achieve the same results. People are jumping ship, and the entire company has a stank that is keeping others from coming.

And it was accomplished simply by management thinking they could outplay the pilots and not honor the flow. Thinking they could try and offer measly sums of money to patch a few holes when they have slammed into an iceberg.

It will only get worse until management is prepared to come to the table in a meaningful way. Until then... well we keep shrinking. How small do we get is up to those holding the money.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Because Unlawful strikes are well…… unlawful.

That includes any “work to rule” campaigns, or a concerted effort to ban OT pickups.

http://www.cirb-ccri.gc.ca/eic/site/047 ... 00104.html

Canada Labour Code

Violating a section of the CBA, should be resolved in grievances and mediation.

Maybe you should read that Continental letter from the 80s. Here is a quote from it "I am an army of one. Or two. Or three hundred."

Moral is is low it doesn't take any organized action to achieve the same results. People are jumping ship, and the entire company has a stank that is keeping others from coming.

And it was accomplished simply by management thinking they could outplay the pilots and not honor the flow. Thinking they could try and offer measly sums of money to patch a few holes when they have slammed into an iceberg.

It will only get worse until management is prepared to come to the table in a meaningful way. Until then... well we keep shrinking. How small do we get is up to those holding the money.

I was simply replying to another posters question as to why jazz can’t strike. I don’t see what relevance of a letter from 40 years ago has

As to your other remarks. Totally agree with you.

[hsilgnepilot]

By the way, this is Horizons pay scale. To fly the same airplanes we do.

Year Captain First Officer
1 $149.18 $90.00
2 $153.00 $97.50
3 $156.83 $105.00
4 $160.65 $108.75
5 $168.30
6 $172.14
7 $175.95
8 $179.78
9 $183.60
10 $191.25
11 $195.08
12 $198.90
13 $202.73
14 $206.55
15 $210.38
16 $215.00

Not to mention, these figures are USD, so you can add 30-35% on any given day to get the Canadian value. Truly quite the state we're in and what we settle for.

[truedude]

Not to mention, these figures are USD, so you can add 30-35% on any given day to get the Canadian value. Truly quite the state we're in and what we settle for.

Time for us to stop settling. And make it known we won't settle any more.

[Canadaflyer46]

Genuine question here (I don’t work for Jazz). If morale is so low, why do I see Dash after Dash taxi in with an engine shut down, no matter how contaminated the taxiways are. Putting your license on the line to save the company a few bucks in fuel. Sure seems like there’s still plenty of happy guys there?

[JHR]

Step 1....stop all voluntary overtime!