When ALPA says 'Where should we set our bar?'

[Loon-A-Tic]

In my opinion and it’s just that “work to rule” gets more attention from all than a strike. The travel public understand what a strike means, no flying. How ever they soon become cranky with travelling to the airport only to discover their flight was cancelled at the last minute due to a “known” wok to rule clause.

[Protonpilot]

The SC ruling trumps anything from a lower court. Federal, Provincial. It doesn’t matter.

You'd think that... until a provincial government legislates a union back to work and invokes the notwithstanding clause. Ontario did it today with education workers after CUPE gave strike notice. Section 33 of the constitution gives a provincial or federal government a five year get out of jail free card.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.6634686

What's more worrying is the peanuts offer from the province that goes along with that legislation:

"CUPE is looking for annual salary increases of 11.7% and the government in response has offered raises of two per cent a year for workers making less than $40,000 and 1.25 per cent for all others."

[DanWEC]

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

[kiaszceski]

Shhh this is democracy. Do not let people strike, ever.

[Fanblade]

The SC ruling trumps anything from a lower court. Federal, Provincial. It doesn’t matter.

You'd think that... until a provincial government legislates a union back to work and invokes the notwithstanding clause. Ontario did it today with education workers after CUPE gave strike notice. Section 33 of the constitution gives a provincial or federal government a five year get out of jail free card.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.6634686

What's more worrying is the peanuts offer from the province that goes along with that legislation:

"CUPE is looking for annual salary increases of 11.7% and the government in response has offered raises of two per cent a year for workers making less than $40,000 and 1.25 per cent for all others."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.6635275

Ontario education workers will walk off the job Friday despite anti-strike legislation, CUPE says


Ontario Teachers have taken the all out work stoppage (strike) and this was the governments response.

The point of my comments were you don’t have to go the full blown strike route.

But the wage increases Ford is offering are insulting. They amount to pay cuts. Legislated pay cuts.

[fish4life]

Also provincial governments don’t have any legislation they can inact or oversight over airlines since they are federally regulated

[Cavalier44]

CUPE is advising its members to walk off the job Friday regardless of Ontario's proposed anti-strike legislation, which came into effect on Monday and invokes the notwithstanding clause to block job action by the union.

I wonder if ACPA, or even ALPA, would have the courage to advise its members to do the same if we found ourselves confronted with the same situation in 2024. A strike action may be the only way in which the pilot group is able to exercise its leverage over the company in order to force them to come to the bargaining table, or else risk losing profit via major flight disruptions/cancellations.

Any legislation that inhibits our ability to conduct a strike action effectively cripples our ability to collectively bargain for improved working conditions, and therefore must be disregarded even if such an action were to be deemed illegal. I'd like to see our representation publicly commit to the possibility of strike action regardless of any existing back-to-work legislation that may be in place prior to contract negotiations in 2024.

[alkaseltzer]

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/10/ ... g-in-court


Anyone know how high the bar was set by Delta’s ALPA? Sounds like it was her own resources, not the union.

Anyone have the deets?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[Alkasultzer]

All I know is Delta pilots are definitely envious of acpa and all of its accomplishments

I mean, look at that contract & pay. Simply world class

[schnitzel2k3]

CUPE is advising its members to walk off the job Friday regardless of Ontario's proposed anti-strike legislation, which came into effect on Monday and invokes the notwithstanding clause to block job action by the union.

I wonder if ACPA, or even ALPA, would have the courage to advise its members to do the same if we found ourselves confronted with the same situation in 2024. A strike action may be the only way in which the pilot group is able to exercise its leverage over the company in order to force them to come to the bargaining table, or else risk losing profit via major flight disruptions/cancellations.

Any legislation that inhibits our ability to conduct a strike action effectively cripples our ability to collectively bargain for improved working conditions, and therefore must be disregarded even if such an action were to be deemed illegal. I'd like to see our representation publicly commit to the possibility of strike action regardless of any existing back-to-work legislation that may be in place prior to contract negotiations in 2024.

It sounds like the better option is work-to-rule with rotating picket lines, eliminating the operational flexibility that management relies upon. This would cause major headaches, but no official shutdown, so the government can't take action.

Both the federal and provincial governments at different times have shown their hands regarding their stances on job action and 2024 is too important for the industry to get shutout again.

[disco]

[/quote]


The Protecting Air Service Act is a Federal statute, currently in force.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/ann ... lText.html


[/quote]

This is incorrect. The Protecting Air Service Act is not currently in force. The Act is "spent".

[Protonpilot]

This is incorrect. The Protecting Air Service Act is not currently in force. The Act is "spent".

It is most definitely spent.

The feds would have to enact a new law. The Liberals don't have a majority so would require the support of at least one other party, especially for something that would require invoking the notwithstanding clause. Hard to see that happening, but you never know. People get annoyed pretty fast when their summer vacation is threatened.

If such a bill were to pass, it would be called something else, "Protecting the Supply Chain Act", "Protecting the Economy Act" etc.

[altiplano]

Trudeau is on record this week saying he supports collective bargaining and circumventing it with legislation and the notwithstanding clause is inappropriate.

Of course he's playing politics with the Ford government pushing CUPE to keep the schools open, but I doubt even Trudeau is hypocritical enough to flip flop here, particularly with NDP propping his gov up.

PASA is dead and in the past, AC pilots absolutely have the right to and should use job action pressure when the time is appropriate.

[JHR]

Start now...no more overtime. Don't answer the phone on days off. No more favours!

[TheAlcalde]

Start now...no more overtime. Don't answer the phone on days off. No more favours!

Too many boats and ex-wives

[cdnavater]

Lol...

Even my 18 yrs old ass knows that

You have a CONSTITUTIONAL right to strike

https://ehlaw.ca/supreme-court-constitu ... to-strike/

Gezus AC pilots are really a beaten down lot!

You were 7 or 8 so I’ll forgive your ignorance,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/air-ca ... -1.1268054

“The back-to-work bill to send a pair of Air Canada labour disputes to binding arbitration passed the Senate on Thursday and was quickly given royal assent.

The legislation covers about 8,600 mechanics, baggage handlers and other ground crew at Air Canada and about 3,000 pilots.

Labour Minister Lisa Raitt had proposed the back-to-work legislation on Monday, saying a work stoppage at the airline would hurt the economy.”

Good thing is that in school these days they teach you about the importance of "dates"

Quoting crap from 2012 gets trumped by stuff written after and offers a new precedent moving forward

The Supreme Court ruled in 2015 that it is our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT

Stay in school kids!

https://ropergreyell.com/resource/const ... ht-strike/

For years, governments have struggled to allow the voluntary resolution of collective bargaining disputes while at the same time protecting the public interest.

That challenge has become more complex now that the Supreme Court of Canada reversed a decades old precedent and concluded that the right to strike is protected as part of the fundamental freedom of association under section 2(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is one of the latest developments in the Court’s application of section 2(d) to the right to participate in a process of meaningful collective bargaining.

It seems the Ontario Conservatives don’t give a flying fart about the supreme courts ruling, governments will do what they think is in the best interest of Canadians and face the courts later. Which by the way, the damage will already be done by the time it works it’s way through the system.

[schnitzel2k3]

Start now...no more overtime. Don't answer the phone on days off. No more favours!

Too many boats and ex-wives

What's the saying, anything that floats, flies or f&cks, rent it?

[firstofficer]

Now GO transit workers are set to go on strike on Monday…..I believe it’s long overdue the union grow a pair and stand their ground by demanding better wages regardless of whatever criminal laws prevent such demonstrations or even strikes. Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job. They’ll have no option but to listen and negotiate. The Canadian aviation industry generated a revenue of $4.1 billion in the first quarter, 166.8% increase. If the union still can’t cater to their members I think it’s probably best for a new union to take shape because this is simply absurd

[Bede]

Enough is enough. If we, as a collective can organize a day to walk out on the job. They’ll have no option but to listen and negotiate.

I’m always blown away with comments like this. We are dealing with people who’s life’s work is to make contingency plans. You will almost never find yourself in a situation where the other party has “no option” but to give you what you want. I’ve seen this line of thinking numerous times and watched as an employer executed plan B and someone besides the pilots reaped the rewards. This lack of long term strategic thinking is exactly why we find ourselves in the position that we’re in.

[negroni]

Sorry, where exactly will the airlines find 5000+ atpl pilots overnight? And have them trained and ready to fly?

Your line of thinking is fearful and defeatist. I'm not at all saying we should all just walk off the job. But when the time comes for labor action this group of pilots in this country need to realize the immense power we hold.

We are where we are because of inept union leaders and a government that enforced illegal FOS. If we had balls back then and had taken the government to court (and not signed a new contract just a few years later essentially cementing all the FOS losses) we'd have won and be better off. But that would have taken smarts and unity, and a real union.