Insurance

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Bug_Stomper_01
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Insurance

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Just wondering what everyone is doing for insurance as AME contractors (sole proprietor and incorporated) or third party AMO’s in Canada. It’s a topic I’ve brought up in the past that has had varying degrees of responses.

Edit: I’d also like to know how Canadian contract AME’s are protecting their tools (insurance or otherwise) as well as any health insurance they’ve elected to apply to their profession.

Thank you all in advance for any constructive information, I think this is a good topic for AME’s to be versed in.
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Last edited by Bug_Stomper_01 on Sat Oct 29, 2022 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
-42
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Re: Insurance

Post by -42 »

Years ago I remember a guy showing me a contract that he was offered. He consulted his lawyer who told him if he signed it he was a very large idiot. Why would you want to work in a industry where that was your primary concern? Even if you do very good work and take your job seriously some scumbag owner/manager will . you so far under the bus your insurance will be the last of your worries. Move on with your life pal.
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Pat Richard
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Re: Insurance

Post by Pat Richard »

Nothing.

As far as I know, and had it explained, as soon as the company authorized me with an ACA I then fell under their insurance.

Otherwise there was something called "hangar keeper' coverage which was totally useless if you wanted to pay reasonable premiums.

Ultimately, there was no specific policies for contract AME's and in most cases that were a result of any kind of negligence, you'd be screwed.

Its yet another reason to avoid this industry when no insurance wants to provide decent ploicies due to the inherent risk.
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digits_
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Re: Insurance

Post by digits_ »

Won't incorporation itself provide you with some protection? You own the corporation, but the corporation itself doesn't own anything, and hangar and rools are all leased from another company?

I also like to add that in some other topics quite some convincing arguments were made that if you have an employee-like relationship with your client, you enjoy the same legal protection as an actual employee if you screw up (eg contractor with only one client, working mainly in that client's hangar)
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Insurance

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

These are the responses I completely expected to elicit. The ACA under someone else’s amo offers you protection (contractor or full time employee). Gross negligence can be argued but ultimately it’s the accountable executive that’s ultimately responsible as far as the cars are concerned for all of the goings on in the company (flying and fixing). It’s extremely difficult to sue contractors for anything except gross negligence, the whole premise for the birth of the CAR’s in or about 1999 was for this very purpose, to protect the industry’s workers.
Prior to that the AWM stated any release of an aircraft was the entirety of the aircraft’s airworthiness and offered little protection for the AME. People were being sued (and vexatiously) back then in the dawn of litigation vanity of the 80’s and 90’s.

What about private third party amo’s? Anyone doing anything with that for insurance? It surely would have to be insured even at the lowest level…
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Insurance

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

digits_ wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:23 pm Won't incorporation itself provide you with some protection? You own the corporation, but the corporation itself doesn't own anything, and hangar and rools are all leased from another company?

I also like to add that in some other topics quite some convincing arguments were made that if you have an employee-like relationship with your client, you enjoy the same legal protection as an actual employee if you screw up (eg contractor with only one client, working mainly in that client's hangar)
The incorporation provides some protection legally, not insurance wise
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digits_
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Re: Insurance

Post by digits_ »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:52 am
digits_ wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:23 pm Won't incorporation itself provide you with some protection? You own the corporation, but the corporation itself doesn't own anything, and hangar and rools are all leased from another company?

I also like to add that in some other topics quite some convincing arguments were made that if you have an employee-like relationship with your client, you enjoy the same legal protection as an actual employee if you screw up (eg contractor with only one client, working mainly in that client's hangar)
The incorporation provides some protection legally, not insurance wise
Aren't they both the same thing?

You -via your corporation- screw up, plane crashes, corporation gets sued and has to pay 2 million dollars, corporation goes bust and your personal finances are safe?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Insurance

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

digits_ wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:56 am
Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 7:52 am
digits_ wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:23 pm Won't incorporation itself provide you with some protection? You own the corporation, but the corporation itself doesn't own anything, and hangar and rools are all leased from another company?

I also like to add that in some other topics quite some convincing arguments were made that if you have an employee-like relationship with your client, you enjoy the same legal protection as an actual employee if you screw up (eg contractor with only one client, working mainly in that client's hangar)
The incorporation provides some protection legally, not insurance wise
Aren't they both the same thing?

You -via your corporation- screw up, plane crashes, corporation gets sued and has to pay 2 million dollars, corporation goes bust and your personal finances are safe?
The incorporation separates you from the business personally however you can be litigated personally depending on circumstances of said litigation. Insurance has nothing to do with that. I’m wondering if anyone has an actual insurance policy as a contractor and or third party amo. I was not surprised about the comments for contractors due to the regs, I’m hoping someone chimes in about third party amo insurance.
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digits_
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Re: Insurance

Post by digits_ »

I don't think I understand your question then. If you're not worried about litigation, then what do you want insurance for?

Do you have a concrete example of the situation you're worried about?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Insurance

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

digits_ wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:58 am I don't think I understand your question then. If you're not worried about litigation, then what do you want insurance for?

Do you have a concrete example of the situation you're worried about?
You need to protect the company, the company can be sued and the president with it. My question is basic, what if any insurance are contractors and third party amo’s using. I was not surprised about individual contractors (although they can and probably should absolutely elect to be insured). Also I’m going to edit the OP with regards to tool insurance as well as workmen’s comp. I’m just looking to see what other ames in industry are doing to protect themselves and assets. Nothing more.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Insurance

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

I’m not surprised that more aren’t commenting on this post.
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