Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

This forum has been developed to discuss flight instruction/University and College programs.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister, North Shore

lizaintheair
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:00 pm

Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by lizaintheair »

Hi everyone. I am an absolute beginner when it comes to flying aircraft. I have done some ground school online, however I have no time in the air yet. I have my category 1 medical from TC, as I intend on getting my CPL within the next year. I am just wondering what's the most efficient way to go about this.

I have researched various flight schools near me, (ex. Brampton Flight Centre) and they seemed to cost around $90,000. They however insure you get your 200 flight hours in, as well as all your ratings. I am sure there is a cheaper, faster, and more efficient way to go about getting my CPL (and eventually ATPL). As an absolute newbie, please help me out here!
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5919
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by digits_ »

Not sure you'll find much cheaper in Toronto. You could contact this guy, he seems to provide efficient training https://alecmyersflighttraining.com/
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by photofly »

The only way you can possibly go from zero to CPL in one year around the GTA is to buy your own plane. I don’t think there are any FTUs that can provide you an instructor *and* an airplane with adequate frequency, given the weather and the number of students who are trying to get lessons around here. That’s fairly cost-neutral overall, but involves a heavy capital outlay.

Think about your priorities for training in terms of cheap, fast, convenient, and quality. Which order you place them in will determine your path forwards. If speed is number one, per your thread title, then it will cost you. If you’re going for the economy options then your timetable will have to be extended.

And no, you cannot have all of them. You *must* choose which are more important to you, and then be ready to sacrifice the others.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
lizaintheair
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:00 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by lizaintheair »

photofly wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:22 pm
Would you say that the $90,000 for the ~2 year flight training program (ex.Brampton Flight Centre) is good value to getting a CPL? Or do you reckon there is a more valuable alternative?
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5919
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by digits_ »

Harv's Air publishes their rates online: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fehzlfl1z5elw ... 2.pdf?dl=0

That's in Manitoba, so you'd have to travel. But anything outside of Toronto should get you your licenses cheaper. Possibly quicker as well, but you'd have to contact them for that.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
DanWEC
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2305
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: 404

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by DanWEC »

MItchinson in CYXE or Harvs air have likely the quickest path to CPL by virtue of the most flyable days per year for weather, and their proximity to practice area airspace. I have never heard of anyone going from zero to CPL in one year in the GTA.
Only problem is you might be apprehensive to start flying in high density airspace afterwards, but you'll get used to it quickly.
Do you want to instruct? If you were a good student through training you can usually get an instructor spot at the school you train at which is golden for that first job. However that might mean another 2 years in MB or SK. If your home is the GTA it might make more sense to stay.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by photofly »

lizaintheair wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:41 am
photofly wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:22 pm
Would you say that the $90,000 for the ~2 year flight training program (ex.Brampton Flight Centre) is good value to getting a CPL? Or do you reckon there is a more valuable alternative?
Is it a fixed price to CPL regardless of how many hours? I doubt it. If it’s a “guide” price or estimate, then there’s no way to know what the actual cost will be.

Similarly with the duration: Sault College allegedly has people leaving the third year of their CPL/MIFR programme with nothing but a PPL. Do you believe Brampton when they say two years? Or is is marketing puff to hook you in as a student?

One relies on a FTU to be honest; but as with all things in life the better the deal sounds the less likely it is to be true.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Jiffy
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Jiffy »

[/quote]
Similarly with the duration: Sault College allegedly has people leaving the third year of their CPL/MIFR programme with nothing but a PPL.
[/quote]
For clarity on the College. We are happy with our son's progress so far. Seems to be flying regularly and s quite satisfied. Just say'in. Cheers.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by photofly »

https://www.northernontariobusiness.com ... am-2823474

I’m happy that they’ve turned things around, but the point stands. A college or school doesn't have any incentive to publicize negative information about how it doesn't meet the expectations it gave you before you signed up.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Jiffy
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Jiffy »

photofly wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:55 am https://www.northernontariobusiness.com ... am-2823474

I’m happy that they’ve turned things around, but the point stands. A college or school doesn't have any incentive to publicize negative information about how it doesn't meet the expectations it gave you before you signed up.
Hey Photofly. I appreciate the link. My son was accepted 3 years ago but the school canceled the year because of covid. But he was asked from the college if he wanted to defer a year and he chose that option to stay on the list when they would resume courses. We were aware of the problems in the past. I have said here before that there are some disgruntled students whom I think discourage kids from registering for this program. I don't say they weren't shafted. You may be familiar with the posts. All in all though, it seems to have been a good decision. Time will tell. I certainly hope this program survives with my kid graduating in a couple years. He is proud of his school, so that's good right? We need properly trained Pilots and this school is certified to do that. We will see. Cheers, Jif.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by photofly »

I’m trying to help the OP interpret the marketing information given by Brampton Flying Club. Sault College isn’t in the GTA and doesn’t meet the needs stated. The link was for the OPs benefit, to see that just because the front desk says $90k and two years doesn’t make it so. I’m very happy that your family is happy with their choice. First hand accounts are always helpful.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Pilotdaddy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Pilotdaddy »

Data point for the OP... I went the plane share route and it worked out very nicely. I started off training part time (once a week) for about four months, got the plane share, and then went all-in full time and got my PPL + CPL six months later. My total cost for both is $26k. If you add miscellaneous things like the medical, written exams, an iPad for ForeFlight, a headset, etc., the cost goes up to a still very reasonable 31k.

There's absolutely no way you can come out this cheaply with any flight school in the GTA. Additionally, what I really liked was the flexibility and scheduling. Since there were only five of us, the plane was essentially always available all the time for me to fly versus competing with all the students in your flight school. I was flying 3-4 times a week, if not more, and was only constrained by weather.

People will say "what if the engine breaks" etc. etc. and that is true... although with this current climate, if you put in 30k for a new engine on your plane, the plane will then probably appreciate the same 30k, so you'll get your money back and I can't really see that as a cost... just built-up equity so to speak. I know about a handful of people who went the plane share route and their costs and pace mirror closely to mine.

Of course, with a plane share, you're buying your partners more than the plane itself... find something on sale on FB marketplace or Kijiji, meet all the partners and make sure everyone is on the same page with everyone else's goals, and that should work out. Notice that I didn't even mention checking out the plane... at this point, there's nothing you can spot as a newbie to even tell what is good and what is bad on an airplane. I suppose you can pay a mechanic for their opinion, but definitely the most important bit is the share owners themselves.

Good luck!
---------- ADS -----------
 
lizaintheair
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2022 7:00 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by lizaintheair »

Pilotdaddy wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:52 am
This is exactly what I was looking for! I wanted a flexible schedule similar to this with likeminded people, but wasn't sure if it was even possible. As you can see, I am very new to the aviation scene. Thank you so very much. Would you have any recommendations as to where I can start the search for plane sharing, etc?
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5919
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by digits_ »

You wrote you have no time in the air yet. If that's true and you've never flown in a small plane, it might be a good idea to get a try out lesson first. There's always a chance you might not like it at all.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Pilotdaddy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Pilotdaddy »

lizaintheair wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:34 am This is exactly what I was looking for! I wanted a flexible schedule similar to this with likeminded people, but wasn't sure if it was even possible. As you can see, I am very new to the aviation scene. Thank you so very much. Would you have any recommendations as to where I can start the search for plane sharing, etc?
You can browse Kijiji and Facebook marketplace as these shares pop up once in a while. You can also visit your local airport and ask around just in case there's a share on sale through word of mouth.

I would follow what digits above said though... you haven't even flown yet and you seem ready to buy-in. What if you don't even enjoy flying? Get some hours first through a flight school, continue scanning for plane shares, and then jump in when appropriate.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4425
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Bede »

lizaintheair wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:34 am
Pilotdaddy wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:52 am
This is exactly what I was looking for! I wanted a flexible schedule similar to this with likeminded people, but wasn't sure if it was even possible. As you can see, I am very new to the aviation scene. Thank you so very much. Would you have any recommendations as to where I can start the search for plane sharing, etc?
Before you jump into aircraft ownership, you'll want to do a lot of self-educating on aircraft ownership. It's not like a car. There's more than a dew people willing to sell you their airplane or a share because they know that there's some major item about to come do.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by photofly »

photofly wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 2:22 pm The only way you can possibly go from zero to CPL in one year around the GTA is to buy your own plane.
Just remember, you heard it here first.

Most plane shares won’t accept student pilots - the insurance for students is often silly expensive - but once you have a PPL then there should be no problem.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Big Pistons Forever
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5860
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Bede wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:57 pm
lizaintheair wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:34 am
Pilotdaddy wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:52 am
This is exactly what I was looking for! I wanted a flexible schedule similar to this with likeminded people, but wasn't sure if it was even possible. As you can see, I am very new to the aviation scene. Thank you so very much. Would you have any recommendations as to where I can start the search for plane sharing, etc?
Before you jump into aircraft ownership, you'll want to do a lot of self-educating on aircraft ownership. It's not like a car. There's more than a dew people willing to sell you their airplane or a share because they know that there's some major item about to come do.
/\ What he said

The story below was from more than 10 years ago. Those cheap airplanes are 10 years older and everything will be more expense. Yes done right buying you can do better than going to a flight school, but the downside can be huge. I strongly recommend you at least get your PPL at a good flight school. After that there may be options with respect to shares, block time etc etc

This is the story of a fellow I knew that bought a beater Cessna 150 with an on condition engine to use to build up his time. He bought it for "only" 18 K but after about 20 hours the engine started running very roughly. When the AME pulled the screen it was full of metal, the engine was toast. His AME found another very high time but cheap engine that looked OK, but the engine mount was cracked and the carb air box needed a repair etc etc. He was lucky in that it only cost him about 10 K to get back in the air (an overhauled engine installed would have been over 25 K), then his radio died and the radio shop said it was too old to repair. He got another unit off E-bay but it never worked, then he lucked out and found a working unit for $1000 but he lost a month of summer flying screwing around, then he needed a new shimmy damper, then new brake discs, then a new elevator trim cable.........He finally finished his CPL and then tried to sell his airplane. A year later it was still for sale and he was desperate so he took a low ball 12 K just to get some money back. Bottom line when all his costs were totaled each hour he flew the aircraft coat him 295 $ an hour plus what he paid for his instructor........
---------- ADS -----------
 
Jiffy
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:34 pm

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Jiffy »

photofly wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:51 am I’m trying to help the OP interpret the marketing information given by Brampton Flying Club. Sault College isn’t in the GTA and doesn’t meet the needs stated. The link was for the OPs benefit, to see that just because the front desk says $90k and two years doesn’t make it so. I’m very happy that your family is happy with their choice. First hand accounts are always helpful.
Sure, thanks.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Bede
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4425
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:52 am

Re: Most efficent way to get CPL in Toronto? (Relatively inexpensive & faster)

Post by Bede »

photofly wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 5:36 pm
Most plane shares won’t accept student pilots - the insurance for students is often silly expensive - but once you have a PPL then there should be no problem.
I had both my kids on our policy for our C150. Insurance was same price. Probably true for higher performance planes.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Flight Training”