How are flight attendants allowed to make less than Min Wage?

[doiwannabeapilot]

26.94 x 75 (Monthly Guarantee) x 12 months a year = $24,246/yr
Alberta’s min wage is $15/hr x 40 hour/week x 52 weeks = $31,200/year. This is almost $7000 higher than encore.

How is this legal???

Because it's comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing someone working full time, at 40 hours per week, to someone working part time, 75 hours per month. Even if you use the "duty average" hours of 135 that someone mentioned earlier it's still part time... Full time is nominally 173. But consider that's the base hours, lots of full time people work more hours than they're paid for, too, just like flight attendants. The norm is probably near 200/month.

exactly.
some more math examples for the mathematically challenged.
if Bob works 2x a week, 5 hours each day worked. at $50 / hour
is he living below the poverty line?
Yes or No ??? according to some peoples logic, yes, because he only makes $26,000 / year

Ask everyone you interact with this week if $50/hour is a poverty wage.

Excuse me, i have to go figure out how to claim dental work for my kids. I only made $89,900 last year. I'm living on the margins.

[goldeneagle]

I just learned that westjet encore flight attendants start at $26.94/hr.

Do they get paid an hourly wage, or, are they like pilots and on a credit system ?

Minimum wage laws apply to hourly workers, not to folks on salary or piecework. Crew getting paid on a credit system are not hourly workers, they are on piecework where the system of credits defines the pieces.

[Conflicting Traffic]

if Bob works 2x a week, 5 hours each day worked. at $50 / hour
is he living below the poverty line?
Yes or No ??? according to some peoples logic, yes, because he only makes $26,000 / year

Ask everyone you interact with this week if $50/hour is a poverty wage.

Excuse me, i have to go figure out how to claim dental work for my kids. I only made $89,900 last year. I'm living on the margins.

Poverty line and minimum wage are different things. Yes. Bob is below the poverty line. No, he's not making less than minimum wage. BUT: If his non-work days can't be productive doing something else (paid or unpaid) because he's tied up doing unpaid work for his employer, then yes, it's entirely possible that he's getting less than minimum wage. And he's definitely stuck below the poverty line because he can't get a second job.

Ask everyone you interact with this week if $50/hour is a poverty wage.

When assessing a wage, people assume 2040 hours a year because that's the norm across most industries. At that rate, $50/h sounds pretty good. But if you explain to them that you're actually getting less than half of that despite having a higher time commitment, they'll be less impressed.

[Bede]

Are unions allowed to accept pay that's less than minimum wage?

No idea I'm not an employment lawyer, but I do know that once you're unionized the government cares a whole lot less about you because the union should take care of you.

The other thing I know is that this type of thing has been challenged before and the employees lost.

[negroni]

I remember a time where I think Alberta based Jazz FAs got a raise and no one else did, because minimum wage went up. 2017/2018? Then the Jazz FA union fought it and everyone got the same raise. So I don't buy this whole they can make less because they're unionized nonsense.

[Conflicting Traffic]

... once you're unionized the government cares a whole lot less about you because the union should take care of you.

Unless the union actually takes care of you. Then the government gets very interested and legislates you back to work.

[Bede]

So I don't buy this whole they can make less because they're unionized nonsense.

Ok, so let's say you're an FA that makes "less than minimum wage." What do you propose to do to rectify the situation?

[Hugh Jasshole]

So cabin crew is getting paid when you are waiting 30+ minutes for ATS to bring you in at YEG??

[averageatbest]

If you are paid $24/hour, but are only paid for 900 hours per year, you only get paid $21,600 before tax.

If you are paid for 4-6 hours per day but work 8-14, your pay is essentially cut in half. At Encore, our flight attendants are paid roughly $10-14 per hour actually worked.

It's bad for the pilots, but it's significantly worse for flight attendants.

[rookiepilot]

So I don't buy this whole they can make less because they're unionized nonsense.

Ok, so let's say you're an FA that makes "less than minimum wage." What do you propose to do to rectify the situation?

Get hired, knowing this exact reality well in advance, then spend the rest of your career bitching on an aviation site about your terrible lot in life.

Don’t for one second tell us, in the internet age, not every single FA (and pilot) knows the exact reality of the job.

At some point these topics have less to do with aviation than the Covid posts.

[digits_]

So I don't buy this whole they can make less because they're unionized nonsense.

Ok, so let's say you're an FA that makes "less than minimum wage." What do you propose to do to rectify the situation?

Get hired, knowing this exact reality well in advance, then spend the rest of your career bitching on an aviation site about your terrible lot in life.

Don’t for one second tell us, in the internet age, not every single FA (and pilot) knows the exact reality of the job.

At some point these topics have less to do with aviation than the Covid posts.

The whole point of minimum wage is that, even if borh parties agree, you can't get paid less than it.

So yes, if it then turns out that you end up making less than minimum wage, and the employer gets away with it, you have every right to complain about it.

We're not talking about low wages, we're talking about wages that would be considered illegal, but thanks to some tricky dirty legal magic, are apparently allowed somehow.

[Longtimer]

Re pay. Since the majority of pilots and FAs are paid according to their union agreements, I guess we can only blame those agreements on why they feel their wages are deficient.

[rando]

Re pay. Since the majority of pilots and FAs are paid according to their union agreements, I guess we can only blame those agreements on why they feel their wages are deficient.

Paying union dues for my Union Gods to negotiate less than minimum wage for me. Where do I sign up!

[TalkingPie]

There seems to be lots of rhetoric posted here by people who don't actually know how FAs are paid.

Just for all those who don't actually work in aviation and don't understand how being paid hourly block time as cabin crew works: for CRA purposes, tax documents from the employer show half the posted pay rate at twice the posted hours, ie: if you work 75 hours per month at $28/hr, your official docs that are sent to the government will show that you worked 150 hours at $14. This is done in recognition of the fact there most decidedly is significant unpaid time worked, and it's not the same as working 75 hours per month in retail or some other job where you're paid from the moment you clock in, and are at home at the end of every shift.

If you think that someone working 75 hours a month as an FA is working a nothing part-time job - where going through security and customs, waiting between flights, boarding/deplaning, cabin checks and setting up galleys, delays, layovers, and recovering from jet lag and night flights are not counted towards your paid hours - you clearly lack experience on the topic.

As for rookiepilot's (presumably completely uninformed) claim that every pilot/FA knows how the pay scheme works when hired: well, I have over a decade's experience that contradicts his claim. It's not smart - frankly I think it's ridiculous that people start a job before making sure exactly how they'll be paid - but I've seen it happen time and again, and even I myself had to actually ask the company principals before someone clued me in (before I signed on, and in my case it was a rate I was happy to accept). The pay scheme is not divulged in job ads nor during the interviews, only the per hour rate. There are even occasionally articles online posted with headlines along the lines of, "*XXX airline* is hiring flight attendants and paying $28/hr." Here is one such article, with the title "Air Canada Is Hiring Flight Attendants In 3 Cities & You Can Get Paid $28 Per Hour To Travel" and the first line of copy is, "Have you always wanted to travel the world and get paid while doing it? You may have the chance with one of these high-paying travel jobs in Canada!": https://www.narcity.com/air-canada-hiri ... -to-travel

If these things aren't intentionally misleading, they're written by idiots.

[AirFrame]

...because he's tied up doing unpaid work for his employer, then...

...then he appears to have made a serious vocational error.

[AirFrame]

If you are paid $24/hour, but are only paid for 900 hours per year, you only get paid $21,600 before tax.

And you're working *part time*.

If you are paid for 4-6 hours per day but work 8-14, your pay is essentially cut in half. At Encore, our flight attendants are paid roughly $10-14 per hour actually worked.

Then your employer is screwing you and your union is complicit in not dealing with it. And you as employees are crazy to be putting up with it.

[AirFrame]

Just for all those who don't actually work in aviation and don't understand how being paid hourly block time as cabin crew works: for CRA purposes, tax documents from the employer show half the posted pay rate at twice the posted hours, ie: if you work 75 hours per month at $28/hr, your official docs that are sent to the government will show that you worked 150 hours at $14.

As long as that $14/hr shown on the tax form isn't below minimum wage, then this shouldn't be a problem... But if it is, you have government issued paperwork that says you're being paid below minimum wage... And that can't be right somehow.

[Donald]

Read Buffalo's latest job ad, and ask them.

$31,600 per year to be a rampy in yellowknife.

Have fun.

[kevenv]

Read Buffalo's latest job ad, and ask them.

$31,600 per year to be a rampy in yellowknife.

Have fun.

NWT minimum wage is $15.20/hr. $31,600 ($31,616) is minimum wage on full time (2080) hours.