Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

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khedrei
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Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by khedrei »

I wanted to report on this to make people aware and maybe get some help for the people affected. Perhaps if someone thinks this is important enough, it can be made sticky?

I am a Class 2 instructor working in the GTA and have discovered that there is a fraudulant instructor offering freelance instruction in the GTA. The two incidents I am aware of happened in Burlington CZBA. While nothing official has been determined (obviously TC has to investigate, prove, witness, etc etc) but a contact at TC searched this persons name and informed me that not only is this person a Class 4 instructor and not allowed to freelance, but their Class 4 Instructor Rating has been expired for almost 9 years, preventing them from legally instructing anyone, anywhere.

If I am allowed to, I will post this person name in here as well as the Kijiji ad that they have up promoting this fraud.

This person has collected thousands of dollars in exchange for sub par training, none of whice can be logged towards a license or rating and they have risked peoples lives, their aircraft, and their livlihood with liability risks which an insurance company likely would not have covered had something happened. I don't know how many people this has happened to. This kind of thing makes me sick. As a person who cares about my reputation in the industry, who tries my best to follow the rules and give the best training I possibly can to new and licensed pilots, this is disgusting.

Anyone who may have some legal insight into what can be done, please dont hesitate to contact me. I am aware that TC will do nothing more than suspend, or issue a fine. I believe the victimes would have a case in court at the least, but perhaps this could fall under the criminal code as fraud/theft, and might warrent a call to the police. Perhaps I am wrong. Any advice would be appreciated if you are well versed in this topic.

Thanks
Kevin
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DanWEC
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by DanWEC »

No, this is a bit of a deal, and I'm more than a little surprised someone would brazenly even try this expecting they wouldn't get caught.
I only see 2 ads in the Toronto area. One for a Class 1 and another posting 2 ads for flight instruction and ferry.
Are you sure about this? Because if there's even a chance of a false accusation you could be really hurting someone's reputation. I'm sure you're aware, but you don't have to be an instructor for all ratings.
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khedrei
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by khedrei »

I gave the name of the instructor who filled out my students PTR to my contact at TC. My TC contact told me exactly what I said above.

I am well aware of what can and cannot be taught with and without an instructor rating. I am personally instructing one of the people who was affected and it was for PPL. This student had no flight experience when he started with this "instsructor".

I'm not sure how much more I can say about it.

I plan to talk to enforcement at TC this week. I just wanted people to be aware.
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tsgarp
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by tsgarp »

Let TC do their investigation. If they violate him, post it here. If you post the accusation and TC subsequently doesn’t violate him, you are opening yourself up to potential litigation.
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Bede
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by Bede »

^ Agreed. TC is there for a reason.
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digits_
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by digits_ »

tsgarp wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:00 pm Let TC do their investigation. If they violate him, post it here. If you post the accusation and TC subsequently doesn’t violate him, you are opening yourself up to potential litigation.
How quickly do they deal with issues like these? Can he expect follow up questions in 8 months?
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Squaretail
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by Squaretail »

khedrei wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:42 pm preventing them from legally instructing anyone, anywhere.
Typically, this person will insist that no instruction took place, nor was it the purpose they were flying in the airplane. Unless that person signed some paper to the effect - a PTR for example - they will say it was just joyriding. If the student perceived it was an instructional flight, it was the student who was mistaken. Even if there is paperwork, that can be brought to question.
This person has collected thousands of dollars in exchange for sub par training, none of which can be logged towards a license or rating and they have risked peoples lives, their aircraft, and their livlihood with liability risks which an insurance company likely would not have covered had something happened.
In all honesty, TC gives a shit whether people are getting substandard training. Lots of training probably is. Also see above. Proving that training was the intent of the flight would be difficult without anything short of a confession. If specific violations of the CARs have happened during these flights, be prepared to list them in this accusation.
I don't know how many people this has happened to. This kind of thing makes me sick. As a person who cares about my reputation in the industry, who tries my best to follow the rules and give the best training I possibly can to new and licensed pilots, this is disgusting.
Get used to it. Lots of people will put up with lots of terrible abuse from someone they perceive to be a wise, experienced and/or knowledgeable instructor. TC is unlikely to prosecute a freelance instructor. Never seen it happen, its just too much work for them for small fry. They don't have the investigative resources, nor inclination to do so.
digits_ wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:02 pm
tsgarp wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:00 pm Let TC do their investigation. If they violate him, post it here. If you post the accusation and TC subsequently doesn’t violate him, you are opening yourself up to potential litigation.
How quickly do they deal with issues like these? Can he expect follow up questions in 8 months?
Not likely. Even when they think they have a violation they have to investigate, if no one has been hurt or killed, or an airplane smashed up, it may be over a year.
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by photofly »

Squaretail wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:42 pm Typically, this person will
This happens often enough for there to be a "typically"???
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Bede
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by Bede »

Squaretail,
I disagree. Lack of licences is one of the biggest contraventions there is. They don't need a confession-they need testimony from the student, which is far more reliable than a self serving denial of the instructor.

Remember, it's a balance of probabilities, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by Squaretail »

Bede wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:53 pm Squaretail,
I disagree. Lack of licences is one of the biggest contraventions there is. They don't need a confession-they need testimony from the student, which is far more reliable than a self serving denial of the instructor.

Remember, it's a balance of probabilities, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
You and I have very different experiences with the regulator then Bede. But remember, this is with freelancers. Its very different when TC knows exactly where you are if a student complains. In all the years I instructed and had complaints about freelancers - with paper to back it up - about this sort of activity nothing was ever done.

Ultimately though, students rarely complain to TC. I'd say maybe only a tenth of those I ever advised to do so ever did, and I never heard of any of those complained about ever being held accountable. Most of them still fly, and still instruct.
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I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
photofly
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by photofly »

TC can't get involved in allegations of fraud or misrepresentation. That would be a matter for the police, or a civil action by the student against the instructor.

It's also likely the student is guilty of more regulatory breaches in this situation than the "instructor".

If the instructor's rating has expired, or him/herself isn't being supervised in accordance with the privileges of his rating, then, for example, a student making a solo flight under the invalid "supervision" of this instructor is committing a breach of the regulations by flying outside the privileges of their student pilot permit. They're also flying uninsured. So TC can definitely fine the student.

I don't see that TC would necessarily want to to do that, but it could. The student could raise a defence of "due diligence", but they would have to show they had taken "all reasonable steps" to verify their "instructor" had a valid licence and rating. If they had asked to see the instructor's licence even once then they would have seen that it was not valid. So one imagines a "due diligence" defence would fail.

By making a complaint to TC, all the student will achieve is guaranteeing that their "training time" is disallowed, and that they themselves are investigated for possible enforcement action.

If TC wanted to punish the instructor, which aviation regulation has that person actually violated? You'll notice that 401.69 ("The holder of a Class 4 flight instructor rating — aeroplane may") is not listed in schedule 2 of part 1, so there's no mechanism for TC to take enforcement action over it. And, it says, "the holder ... may ... [give instruction]" , not "anyone giving instruction must have the rating."


Now, let's look at the actual ad on Kijiji. Is this the one?
If you have your own aircraft and looking for flight instruction/multi engine/night rating/instrument rating GTA area and will come to you… available evenings/weekends. 11 years experience in all conditions, your success is most important to me. Please message for more information
There's nothing there that says the poster has an instructor rating at all. You can definitely teach for a multi-engine rating and instrument rating without an instructor rating. (Night rating not so much, as far as I can see.) And the ad doesn't say "I can train you for your PPL".
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by digits_ »

photofly wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:36 am

If TC wanted to punish the instructor, which aviation regulation has that person actually violated? You'll notice that 401.69 ("The holder of a Class 4 flight instructor rating — aeroplane may") is not listed in schedule 2 of part 1, so there's no mechanism for TC to take enforcement action over it. And, it says, "the holder ... may ... [give instruction]" , not "anyone giving instruction must have the rating."

Hmz....

Division III - Personnel And Aircraft
425.21 Qualifications of Flight Instructors

(1) A person who acts as a flight instructor shall be the holder of a pilot permit or pilot licence for the category, class and type of aircraft, as appropriate, on which the flight training is conducted.

(2) A person who conducts flight training in any category of aircraft, where the trainee does not hold a pilot permit or pilot licence for that category, or conducts a flight review, shall:

(a) have a flight instructor rating for the category of aircraft used for the training; and
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
photofly
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by photofly »

EDIT: you're right - the actual provision is this:
405.21 (1) No person shall conduct flight training or a flight review unless the person is qualified as a flight instructor in accordance with the personnel licensing standards.
So they can fine the instructor, if they can establish he didn't meet the standards for the training he was conducting.
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DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by Squaretail »

photofly wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:18 am EDIT: you're right - the actual provision is this:
405.21 (1) No person shall conduct flight training or a flight review unless the person is qualified as a flight instructor in accordance with the personnel licensing standards.
So they can fine the instructor, if they can establish he didn't meet the standards for the training he was conducting.
As an aside, under 425 standard, being qualified as an flight instructor, doesn't necessarily mean they need a flight instructor rating depending on the training given.

The obvious way out for the instructor, should he be cornered by TC, would be to deny that training took place specifically towards the rating itself -the night rating being the problematic one here where 425.21 (4), that they were just helping the "student" practice.

Personally I have seen both sides of the coin. Sometimes a "student" is under the impression that they are receiving training, and if you delve into it, its actually a joyride. On the other side I've also seen where an instructor is genuinely trying to sell their services as such to unwitting students. While the latter can fall into an area where a contravention was committed, it can be obviously tough to prove between the two extremes. TC doesn't make it their priority to investigate either way. If a student making an accusation didn't keep records, which is all too often the case (they often will say that their "instructor" had told them they would handle record keeping...) they got nothing.
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I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
digits_
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by digits_ »

In the case we are discussing, PPL instructing is taking plase by an allegedly unqualified instructor who is also filling out a PTR. Should be fairly straightforward to prove who is right or wrong.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
khedrei
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by khedrei »

The responses in this thread remind me of why I don't use social media AT ALL or frequent these forum sites (as proven by my post count) aside from seeking very specific things.

I can also see why there is a thread specifically addressing thread hijacking. This thread was not a debate thread where I wanted people's opinions on whether what was happening was legal, or about which rules it was breaking or not breaking. I also wasn't seeking comments about whether TC would care or what they would do. Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough, so that’s my fault.

This was a warning thread for anyone seeking flight training from a freelance instructor who may be this person, or another person to simply be careful. I also asked anyone who might have legal expertise to contact me. Anyone trying to either justify what this person was doing or coming up with ways that they may/try to get out the trouble they are in or that the student is at fault, should be ashamed of yourselves. This is the most blatant case of fraud in flight training that I have ever seen, and there are people higher up than me who agree. I don't really care if you don't

I didn't mention names, and my very first post said that I know nothing is official yet. I know what I am talking about and the discussion I had with a TC inspector today gives me even more confidence to post here, though clearly the audience would rather bicker, and post nonsense. I was accurate in all my information and a cease-and-desist letter has been sent while the investigation is ongoing.

You guys can go debate the legalities of who is qualified to teach what with what rating and license in another thread. I was very clear about what was happening in this case.

I request that moderators close this thread and if possible, keep a sticky warning (this thread, or another) for anyone looking for freelance instruction.
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by photofly »

So.... a student hiring a freelance instructor shouldn't ask to see the instructor's licence? That's an interesting point of view.
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by Aviatard »

photofly wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:36 am
If the instructor's rating has expired, or him/herself isn't being supervised in accordance with the privileges of his rating, then, for example, a student making a solo flight under the invalid "supervision" of this instructor is committing a breach of the regulations by flying outside the privileges of their student pilot permit. They're also flying uninsured. So TC can definitely fine the student.

I don't see that TC would necessarily want to to do that, but it could. The student could raise a defence of "due diligence", but they would have to show they had taken "all reasonable steps" to verify their "instructor" had a valid licence and rating. If they had asked to see the instructor's licence even once then they would have seen that it was not valid. So one imagines a "due diligence" defence would fail.

By making a complaint to TC, all the student will achieve is guaranteeing that their "training time" is disallowed, and that they themselves are investigated for possible enforcement action.
In the OP’s case the student held a valid Student Pilot Permit and medical. Both dual and solo flights were conducted toward a PPL.

In the couple of cases I know about where the instructor’s rating or medical had lapsed by a short time TC took the position that the student had not committed a violation and allowed the training time to stand because doing otherwise would unfairly penalize the student.

Is it reasonable to expect a student to verify instructor qualifications? If so they’d have to do so before every flight. In 17 years I’ve never been asked by a student to show my qualifications. I’d suspect you haven’t ever been asked either.

The CARS state that solo flights have to be supervised by a person “qualified to provide training”. While I suppose it’s technically possible TC could take action against the student, it seems onerous to me that the student be required to be the one to verify the instructor’s qualifications.
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by photofly »

Is it reasonable to expect a student to verify instructor qualifications? If so they’d have to do so before every flight. In 17 years I’ve never been asked by a student to show my qualifications. I’d suspect you haven’t ever been asked either.
I don’t think “all reasonable precautions” would mean checking credentials before every flight, but once, before the first flight, doesn’t seem unreasonable.

It would give the student a chance to notice that the instructor rating was a class 4, and had expired 8 years prior. Neither of those details would have changed on a second or third flight, would they?

No, I don’t think the government has an interest in prosecuting a student who got ripped off. I was pointing out one reason why such a person might not be enthusiastic about complaining to TC. It’s common for criminals to rope their victims into some unlawful conduct themselves, as “insurance”, and indeed they might well get investigated even if TC elected not to proceed to an enforcement action. There’s that, and the fear of disallowance of the training time and money the student had invested.

As for me, for my training I mainly used instructors from an FTU but the one independent instructor who taught me had no issue showing me his licence was valid before we flew, in fact he insisted on doing so. I bet the student referred to on the first post wishes he’d checked too. Which is kind-of the point I’m making.
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khedrei
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Re: Fraudulant Freelance Instructor GTA

Post by khedrei »

There is more development here.

There are 3 ppl who have been scammed at CZBA and my contact at TC says they have reports of 10 so far.

He goes by "Nino".

If you think you have been scammed, contact your local TC office, or PM me and I will help connect you. I have also encouraged people to make a police report but not sure if thats happened yet.

Be vigilant.
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