working for peanuts?

Wburns · Post by **Wburns** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:54 pm

Without using any names or dollar figures, wanna say what an insult my fist paycheck as a dockhand/laborer was. Got out to NWO early, real early and well I managed to find a job as a dock hand(when the ice comes off) and laboring around the camps. This flying outfit is also a fishing/hunting outfitter. Real respectable outfit with good equipment. So without bitching and whining too much, I knew what I was gettinng myself into. I left a real good job in BC as an AME to persue floatflying, when I can eventually get in the seat. Anyway I need someone to tell me to suck it up and I am working for something in the longrun. Please share your own dockhand experiences and wages. With insurance requirements where they are what else can I expect. Some asshole once said, "with great sacrifice comes great reward". Cause I don't care who you are, everyone has to start here.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:59 pm

How many guys waiting for a job with you?

Over the Horn · Post by **Over the Horn** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 3:54 pm

MMMMMMMMMM Peanuts!! Beer!!! HMM don't mind if I do

dock pussy · Post by **dock pussy** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:50 pm

wburns,

here is the boost you need. these are the most inspiring words i read on the forum ever:

Wburns wrote:
So stop complaining about the industry and insurance minimums and dive in to this shit if you really "want to be a bush pilot"

Good luck for the up coming season.

you type that on feb 20 on the 'so i want to be a bush pilot' thread.
apparently you were tinking of your self ahead of time knowing you might need someone to tell you 'to suck it up.'

"the ironing is delicious"
- bart simpson

"hang in there kitty"
- marge simpson's poster in her garage during a struggle with local pretzel mafia

Kernal Klink · Post by **Kernal Klink** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:15 pm

PM me on where you're working, and what you're making. Don't worry.. i don't work in NWO anymore, but can give you some good info.

zero · Post by **zero** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:39 pm

What kind of experience do you have pertaining to flying, flight times etc.??

Wburns · Post by **Wburns** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:43 pm

Thanks there Dockpussy,
The irony is deliscious. Yes and that was easier to write in the comforts of my own home. Now, in buttfuck NWO, its a little different. I guess I should be thankfull I'm working. So if you don't have any of your own experiences to share, YOU CAN POUND SAND or granite in NWO.
Have a pleasant day.

dock pussy · Post by **dock pussy** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:32 pm

i just love delicious ironing!!

shit, man, there will always be low times when you ask yourself 'why the @#$! is this shit happening to me?' and 'what the @#$! kind of pay is this?', but don't worry, there will be good times in the summer when everthing goes good and you'll kick back at the end of the day with a ice beeer and you'll get a little drunk and feel happy as a pig in poo to be working to something good. and if you are all alone now waiting for the summer don't worry there will more people and you'll have friends to join you in asking 'how the @#$! did i get stuck in this shit bog' soon enough.

my first job pay was like 3-4$ and hour and it did suck but i barely remember now but it did suck to get paid low. lots people have been there.

better? sand pounder?
and pound granite? with my cok, you mean? it is no hard enough!

again, thanks for the delicious ironing snack.

ttx15 · Post by **ttx15** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:19 pm

I use to work for 100$ a week loading a beaver an getting some dual time for about a month an half. That was to get closer to 100h float time.

Than I got an other dockhand job working for 8$ an hour 55h a week to load floatplane an to hunt minnows, I got insure with 150h on a 180 than I was still working for the same amount of money. There's no sub job for a rookie pilot and I think 2000$ a month with a good place to stay is fair. It's hard to find the first job and if you don't have an other one don't leave, an other perfect pilot out of the college will take your spot in a minute.

Every years it's the same old shit.

Blakey · Post by **Blakey** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:13 am

WBurns,

Just 2 points here guy:

1. You think it's bad now? Wait until the black flies come out!

2. It sounds like you have what it takes to get through this and make it in the business. When you do, remember what it was like to work the dock. Give the kid loading your airplane the breaks you'd like to get now. Take him along when you don't have to and go to the boss on his behalf to get him the opportunities he earns. Don't forget what it feels like to be in the "you're a good guy but you don't have enough time" box.

Wburns · Post by **Wburns** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:15 am

thanks for the replies, it does go to show, this is the culture of the industry. It will probably never change. Maybe its like this to weed out those who don't really want to be here. It's very competitive when you don't have the numbers and it only gets better I'm sure as people decide to give up what they really got into this for and head for the rat race that is airline flying. Theres always someone who will work for less, and that seems to drive the wages down right from the very top. Can't change it just live with it. Or can we change it? Please share your dock experiences, they would be appreciated to those, including me, who will bust our ass there this season.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:00 am

Maybe its like this to weed out those who don't really want to be here.

That's one reason, and personally I think it's a good reason. I don't want to work with some pussy who is not really interested in being there and who is just killing time until the first MIFR spot opens up.
The other reason is that some operators are snakes and they realize that 4 out of 5 low-time CPL's would run down their own grandmother in the street to get a job. Therefore they can pay shit and get away with it.
As for dock experiences, I could tell you lots. I got outta school just after 9/11 when the industry was tanked and I worked the dock for 2 summers, first in northern SK and then in NWO and I felt fortunate to get those jobs because half of my buddies were still unemployed. Both times I was making $1500/month gross. Doesn't seem like much but I was provided a place to stay, so my only expenses were food and beer. There's not much else to spend it on in buttfack nowhere. So big deal, you tough it out making what amounts to $3/hour for 5 months. You still manage to have a little cash in the bank when it's all said and done and you have a bunch of experiences and memories that you won't get anywhere else. Some shitty, some hilarious, some helpful, many all drunk and hazy. At the time, it seemed like the shittiest situation ever. Now, looking back, I wouldn't trade it for the world. I made some lifelong friends and we all look back and laugh at all those drunken evenings.
As for specific experiences, got plenty of those too. I've shared this one here before I think, but if you can top it, then maybe you have the right to complain. Try laying face down, legs on the ground being held by your fellow dockhand, torso hanging upside down in the septic tank while you try to fix the pump. There's plenty shit jobs when you're a dockhand, lots of shitters to be dug and many other unsavory jobs to be done. Wait until the town does a scheduled power-outage and your boss makes you siphon avgas because he doesn't want to wait 15 minutes until the power comes back on. Have fun making 4 sets of bunk beds out of the shittiest lumber available only to have just one be used at a camp while the rest sit in storage "just in case" the boss needs another "someday." Enjoy felling 60 trees across the lake, towing them to the camp 2 at a time by boat and then skinning them all by hand before building the biggest goddam dock cribs you've ever seen.
I'm not gonna tell you to suck it up and quit complaining because it sucks, it really does and I know it. I will however try to give you a little encouragement and let you know it will get easier as the summer wears on and by the time it's all over and done with you might even look back on it with a couple fond memories. Hang in there.

By the way, who are you working for in NWO? PM me if you prefer.

Wburns · Post by **Wburns** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:59 am

thanks shimmy dampener, good post. Check your PM's

boozy · Post by **boozy** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:04 pm

Ya I wouldn't get started in float flying for the money if I were you Wburns. Certainly the first few years can be rocky. Especially if you have family. But otherwise, the money goes up with experience; there's no doubting that. Slowly at first but then more and more so as you get going. You'll never make a mint for the most part, but if you include good times as part of your wage then you'll be a millionaire as a bush-pilot in no time. Bush-flying is truly the best job in the world when you do the math...and yeah, the guys that don't wanna put they're time in on the dock and get the shitty wages....they will never get the good times...they can all go become accountants or computer programmers or something.

I just cant help laughing actually at how funny some of the sh$&t I've done is now. Like pumping all the sewage from the primary holders all over the camp in the fall as soon as the guests leave...and they all wonder why the grass grows so well around the cabins in the spring. Or hauling boat loads of sand and rock all frickin day from a beach to your camp so that you can make footings....who's really gonna fly sand into a camp. Or the fires....nothing burns like american garbage in a giant incinerator...but how about picking out all the cans from the ashes in the rain so that they can be flown back in and recycled. It feels like I did that yesterday....and I laugh...what the hells wrong with me.

But this summer, it'll be more of the same...maybe now Im flying the machines too but hey...all the operators like a multi-tasker. In the end you'll find that flying the planes just gets you were you have to do the real work...the dock work...and the pay will go up each year.

By the way...if your getting less than 1500(gross)/month with no room and food...then your getting screwed for sure.

Wburns · Post by **Wburns** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:55 pm

Its a little more than, but my ass still hurts.

RHDZ · Post by **RHDZ** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:24 am

I started in the industry 6 years ago as a dockhand at a place where tips avg. 20-50 u.s./day extra beer and food and I'm talking big meat that customers brought out of camp was taken care of by all staff usally pilots and dockhands and plus i was paid on top of that and got to hang out on the lake all day. Worked there for 2 seasons and had a bright idea of of going to college and becoming a comm. pilot w 50 hr floats. Didn't get out of school in time for 3rd season and was replaced. Since then I've had a dispatch job no use dont't have multi-ifr I also took another 50 hrs last year no use also, multi-ifr guys need time also. Be glad what you have now I'm from N.W.O. and still cant find a job in this so called promise land.

skank · Post by **skank** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:07 pm

This is how it was in 06. Do you think times have really changed in float flying?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:18 pm

Bush-flying is truly the best job in the world

Naw....not even close.

The best flying job in the world is Ag. flying.

boozy · Post by **boozy** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:10 pm

Heh heh, I still stand by what I said Cat. But that's cause its all I know...which is also shit-all. Times are changing for pay by the way. I can't believe I said 1500/month and no room and board your getting screwed. That's unbelievably screwed beyond any comparable level.

Now as a dockhand, in NWO if you don't really get to fly in the summer (maybe 50 hours max). You should get at least 2500/month. And room and board definitely included. Im guessing here anyway...but I think thats within reason.

2R · Post by 2R » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:02 am

Screwed over ??? It is enough to make your brown eye blue

Pay peanuts ,get monkies

Ballsssssss · Post by **Ballsssssss** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:12 am

Does the company have an AMO? Or do they have a 3rd party contract AMO? If you are an AME I would think that your skills would be desperately needed with the AME shortage...especially in NWO. Maybe you could swing some contract work to make extra $$$..... they may let you skip some of the really shitty dockhand work to go help maintain the planes.

I started off as a dockhand before I went to AME school. I did the fueling, float pumping, cargo loading, dock repairs, AME helping, and KFC/McDicks runs. 0600 to 1800+ every day of the week. I was the last dockhand they ever paid by the hour..I was making more than the 206 pilot. It was a lot of hard work, but we had a lot of fun...especially after hours drinking beer and pelting the MS Kenora with water balloons.

You can most definitely expect to get abused as a low-timer dock hand/ lackey but most companies will appreciate your hard work and do their best to get you some flying time. You may end up with a full-time flying job the next summer. Here's a hint: You can sometimes make extra $$ by cleaning the guests fish for them. Save the heads so you can make soup....free dinner and all the fond memories the smell brings back...

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:10 pm

If you don't love flying don't do it. Yes it sucks major ASS when you start. Everyone goes through it. It truly does weed a lot of people out too..

If there weren't so many people enamored by the romance of flight and willing to do anything to fly and maybe just maybe someday make a lot of money, it would be different.

Suck it up. Have some fun.. Make some fun and enjoy! Life (especially in aviation) aint about the destination.. It's totally about the journey.

In the end we'll have memories that few can dream of.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:56 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
Bush-flying is truly the best job in the world
Naw....not even close.

The best flying job in the world is Ag. flying.

Come on Charles,

You know better than that...

Whoop, whoop, whoop...

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:19 pm

The best flying job in the world is Ag. flying.

It should have been obvious that I meant in a helicopter....

....sorry STL sometimes I forget to state the obvious.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:32 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
The best flying job in the world is Ag. flying.
It should have been obvious that I meant in a helicopter....

....sorry STL sometimes I forget to state the obvious.

Just kidding. There are MANY applications that are "the best," all depends on who you are, and what your wiring is connected like.

For me, definitely the rotary world,

stl

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