Flair off runway excursion YKF

[rookiepilot]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Well first I can see where my message could be taken wrong. I didn’t mean to let them off the hook or our fatigue rules either. Both will face scrutiny as they should. I just meant to point out that as a possibility and the reason for it.

As far as the lecture about being bias and ragging on the student pilots or GA. You won’t hear peep from me, as I couldn’t care less about that side of aviation. So no I am not being bias.

Deleted, dumb, except:

As for this incident, or others caused by an unsafe schedule, where the heck is your union?

[UnionDrive]

Does flair employ TFW’s?

[Chaxterium]

Would a round trip YVR turn even be legal at night under the new CARS? That sounds exhausting.

Based on the check in time that someone else posted here (around 6pm or so) then they were good for 12 hours so yes, a YVR-YKF-YVR turn is possible. Tight. But possible.

[Aviatard]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Think about how you can take any thread and immediately turn it into shit.

[Dry Guy]

Does flair employ TFW’s?

They just started recruiting in Africa for permanent immigrant workers because they can't find enough qualified pilots in Canada that will work for them at the current wages.

[UnionDrive]

Does flair employ TFW’s?

They just started recruiting in Africa for permanent immigrant workers because they can't find enough qualified pilots in Canada that will work for them at the current wages.

How is that even allowed? Pay your f**king pilots proper wages, and things like this won’t happen.

[FL030]

How is that even allowed? Pay your f**king pilots proper wages, and things like this won’t happen.

Because no one cares about pilot experience or fatigue management until one of your airplanes is on the news sitting in a field. Even then I doubt they'll change anything.

[YC87DRVR]

If it was in fact YKF-YVR-YKF throughout the night that is absolutely crazy. Shame on Flair for scheduling that and shame on those pilots for accepting.

Prior to covid Westjet was scheduling 37 crew’s to operate YWG-YEG(couple hour sit)-YYZ red eye. I can’t recall the exact report time or length of the sit in Edmonton. I heard from several union members it was short lived. Almost every pilot was calling in sick and a significant number of crews were even waiting till the last minute and booking off while on the sit in Edmonton in anticipation of being overly fatigued, causing a last minute flight cancelation. It wasn’t long before the company got the message, the union got involved and the company agreed to stop that madness.

[digits_]

If it was in fact YKF-YVR-YKF throughout the night that is absolutely crazy. Shame on Flair for scheduling that and shame on those pilots for accepting.

Prior to covid Westjet was scheduling 37 crew’s to operate YWG-YEG(couple hour sit)-YYZ red eye. I can’t recall the exact report time or length of the sit in Edmonton. I heard from several union members it was short lived. Almost every pilot was calling in sick and a significant number of crews were even waiting till the last minute and booking off while on the sit in Edmonton in anticipation of being overly fatigued, causing a last minute flight cancelation. It wasn’t long before the company got the message, the union got involved and the company agreed to stop that madness.

Why would YVR-YKF at night be madness, but crossing the Atlantic at night is ok?

I agree it's madness, just not sure why only that particular brand of madness should be discouraged

[rookiepilot]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Think about how you can take any thread and immediately turn it into shit.

It offends me.

Like the time, long ago, I came back from a long, multi day, time building trip for my CPL on a mega hot day, and parked in the wrong spot or something stupid. Might said something about being tired, taxing in, picked up by their Big Brother devices they recently had installed.

Some fat asswipe loser administrator in the flight school implied — no, said — to my face, zero evidence, i was partying on booze and drugs, on my trip, instead of a nice statement “be careful flying when tired”.

[UnionDrive]

How is that even allowed? Pay your f**king pilots proper wages, and things like this won’t happen.

Because no one cares about pilot experience or fatigue management until one of your airplanes is on the news sitting in a field. Even then I doubt they'll change anything.

All thanks to Justin and Omar.

[YC87DRVR]

If it was in fact YKF-YVR-YKF throughout the night that is absolutely crazy. Shame on Flair for scheduling that and shame on those pilots for accepting.

Prior to covid Westjet was scheduling 37 crew’s to operate YWG-YEG(couple hour sit)-YYZ red eye. I can’t recall the exact report time or length of the sit in Edmonton. I heard from several union members it was short lived. Almost every pilot was calling in sick and a significant number of crews were even waiting till the last minute and booking off while on the sit in Edmonton in anticipation of being overly fatigued, causing a last minute flight cancelation. It wasn’t long before the company got the message, the union got involved and the company agreed to stop that madness.

Why would YVR-YKF at night be madness, but crossing the Atlantic at night is ok?

I agree it's madness, just not sure why only that particular brand of madness should be discouraged

Why don’t you re-read my post?

Did I say YVR-YKF? No. I said if it was YKF-YVR-YKF. Big difference.

[ATC_Anstey]

delete

[twa22]

.

[rooster]

Nice to know that Flair operates their business model like a 703 would. Folks enjoy your $69 tickets at the expense of having a few broken bones.

Company culture comes from the top. A chief pilot that lived in a van in the parking lot, paid for training at Jetsgo, and scabbed at Swoop to try to get ahead of everyone else, is going to be the kind of person that cuts corners and expect others to do the same.

You're a friggin idiot you know that?

[rooster]

Does flair employ TFW’s?

They just started recruiting in Africa for permanent immigrant workers because they can't find enough qualified pilots in Canada that will work for them at the current wages.

How is that even allowed? Pay your f**king pilots proper wages, and things like this won’t happen.

So how did the Emirates accident happen? What about AC in SFO? Southwest in Chicago? And all the other well paid pilots who've had overruns or other incidents? Another stupid comment, surprise surprise.

[rookiepilot]

They just started recruiting in Africa for permanent immigrant workers because they can't find enough qualified pilots in Canada that will work for them at the current wages.

How is that even allowed? Pay your f**king pilots proper wages, and things like this won’t happen.

So how did the Emirates accident happen? What about AC in SFO? Southwest in Chicago? And all the other well paid pilots who've had overruns or other incidents? Another stupid comment, surprise surprise.

-

[canadian_aviator_4]

As a GA pilot you fly once in a while, maybe for a few hours at a time. Unless you have worked as a professional pilot, you have no idea of the stress and exhaustion. These things include:
- abusive chief pilots
- 14 hour duty days, recently reduced.
- low pay, and forced to pick up extra flying to make ends meet, resulting in fatigue.
- many nights away from home.

Overall, I enjoy the job but there are many stressors that come with it. So again, unless you actually have worked as a professional pilot, it’s pretty difficult for you to truly understand.

[altiplano]

Nice to know that Flair operates their business model like a 703 would. Folks enjoy your $69 tickets at the expense of having a few broken bones.

Company culture comes from the top. A chief pilot that lived in a van in the parking lot, paid for training at Jetsgo, and scabbed at Swoop to try to get ahead of everyone else, is going to be the kind of person that cuts corners and expect others to do the same.

You're a friggin idiot you know that?

Is it not true?
#vanlife
#JetsGONE
#scab

[digits_]

If it was in fact YKF-YVR-YKF throughout the night that is absolutely crazy. Shame on Flair for scheduling that and shame on those pilots for accepting.

Prior to covid Westjet was scheduling 37 crew’s to operate YWG-YEG(couple hour sit)-YYZ red eye. I can’t recall the exact report time or length of the sit in Edmonton. I heard from several union members it was short lived. Almost every pilot was calling in sick and a significant number of crews were even waiting till the last minute and booking off while on the sit in Edmonton in anticipation of being overly fatigued, causing a last minute flight cancelation. It wasn’t long before the company got the message, the union got involved and the company agreed to stop that madness.

Why would YVR-YKF at night be madness, but crossing the Atlantic at night is ok?

I agree it's madness, just not sure why only that particular brand of madness should be discouraged

Why don’t you re-read my post?

Did I say YVR-YKF? No. I said if it was YKF-YVR-YKF. Big difference.

Apologies, I assumed a new crew for YVR-YKF, which in retrospect seems unlikely.