Flair off runway excursion YKF

[thepoors]

https://skiesmag.com/news/flair-737-ove ... unway-ykf/

[broken_slinky]

Some photos of it off the runway:
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/flair-airl ... -1.6168489

[YC87DRVR]

Not throwing stones, just will be curious as to what led to this. Flightaware looks like they landed RWY26, at 7000.

My first assumption would be something as simple as trying to roll out to the end of the runway with minimal TR use and little or no breaking on landing and misjudging their speed with runway remaining until it was too late. Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

[daedalusx]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Wx, gusty crosswind, they might have floated it too long and they didn't realize they were going to overrun. Or maybe they set up for a F30 landing instead of F40.
Fatigue could have been a factor for sure and possibly even pilot experience.. hint hint.

[rookiepilot]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Deleted. Dumb.

[thepoors]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Sure was

[2112]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Was the SP or GA aviator operating multiple hour segments through their circadian low?

[rookiepilot]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Was the SP or GA aviator operating multiple hour segments through their circadian low?

Deleted. Dumb.

[daedalusx]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Sure was

Yikes.
Well then fatigue was definitely a factor. I don't know how you guys do it but I'm usually quite fatigue after a long 4+ hr single red eye leg so I can't imagine how would someone mentally feel operating a second leg especially a such a long flight back. Reminds me of the time I was doing Medevac in YZF all night after being on call all day and then waiting a few hours for the medics to prep the patient.

[Donald]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Sure was

Yikes.
Well then fatigue was definitely a factor. I don't know how you guys do it but I'm usually quite fatigue after a long 4+ hr single red eye leg so I can't imagine how would someone mentally feel operating a second leg especially a such a long flight back. Reminds me of the time I was doing Medevac in YZF all night after being on call all day and then waiting a few hours for the medics to prep the patient.

And this flight was delayed as well.

[yepivedonethat]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Sure was

Ouuuch!!!!! This is with one crew? If that's the case fatigue is definitely the primary issue. Nice to know that Flair operates their business model like a 703 would. Folks enjoy your $69 tickets at the expense of having a few broken bones.

[lownslow]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Whoa, do you mean they schedule a single crew for a single day YKF-YVR-YKF? That’s madness if true.

[daedalusx]

Just curious, was that flight the return leg of the 2leg red-eye that Flair sometimes operate ?

Whoa, do you mean they schedule a single crew for a single day YKF-YVR-YKF? That’s madness if true.

Apparently according to the people who work there, it’s a *perk*. That way you get more days off as a BOTL guy because it’s high cred.
That being said, maybe it was a fresh YVR crew since the flight was delayed? I don’t know. I don’t work there.

[Victory]

Nice to know that Flair operates their business model like a 703 would. Folks enjoy your $69 tickets at the expense of having a few broken bones.

Company culture comes from the top. A chief pilot that lived in a van in the parking lot, paid for training at Jetsgo, and scabbed at Swoop to try to get ahead of everyone else, is going to be the kind of person that cuts corners and expect others to do the same.

[GRK2]

Nice to know that Flair operates their business model like a 703 would. Folks enjoy your $69 tickets at the expense of having a few broken bones.

Company culture comes from the top. A chief pilot that lived in a van in the parking lot, paid for training at Jetsgo, and scabbed at Swoop to try to get ahead of everyone else, is going to be the kind of person that cuts corners and expect others to do the same.

My god you're a clueless one aren't you?

[fish4life]

Looking at flight aware it’s a scheduled 6:50pm departure so assuming 1 hour report that’s a 5:50pm report and they would have landed back in ykf at 6:25am.

12.5 hours through the middle of the night without a chance for a good daytime nap because the start time is so early. It would also have to be an Unforseen extension due to the start time (if it wasn’t a delayed reporting time). I can definitely see how fatigue can be an issue and hopefully if it was it puts an end to this practice of multi leg max duty red eyes at flair.

[Maynard]

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Was the SP or GA aviator operating multiple hour segments through their circadian low?

GA pilots get tired too for any number of reasons. And mess up.

Your grace to one specific group of pilots but not another is hypocritical and offensive.

I happen to think the other way. Professional pilots are far more experienced, better trained, current, and usually have 2 crew to back each other up.

See how that works?

What pressures do GA pilots face? Is it staying on schedule? Passengers? Dispatch? Weather? Not saying we shouldn't feel bad when a GA pilot goes off a runway due to fatigue, but the reason they're in the seat in the first place is vastly different.

[YC87DRVR]

Certainly has happened before and will happen again, no need to hang the crew for it. Fatigue and darkness certainly wouldn’t have helped.

Funny we never hear such grace for fatigue when it's a GA pilot, even a student pilot, who exits the runway. Then it's just how stupid they must have been, and it's great sport to hang that pilot.

I'd think about that bias myself.

Well first I can see where my message could be taken wrong. I didn’t mean to let them off the hook or our fatigue rules either. Both will face scrutiny as they should. I just meant to point out that as a possibility and the reason for it.

As far as the lecture about being bias and ragging on the student pilots or GA. You won’t hear peep from me, as I couldn’t care less about that side of aviation. So no I am not being bias.

[Rooster69]

Couldn’t have been fatigue. There were new state of the art duty time rules implemented in Canada to eliminate fatigue. Besides if the crew suspected that they were going to be fatigued, they would have booked off, right?

[Inverted2]

Would a round trip YVR turn even be legal at night under the new CARS? That sounds exhausting.