Ac up gauging routes

[Malfunction]

What is the future look like for jazz with AC 220 purchase and up gauging routes?

[rudder]

What is the future look like for jazz with AC 220 purchase and up gauging routes?

Post-2025 Jazz minimum fleet guarantee is 80 76/78 seat aircraft.

AC is just preparing (planning?) for the eventuality that Jazz may only be operating at the floor level of the CPA.

[QKZXKV]

Of the 80 aircraft remaining, Props will be out west and jets out east, I think.

BC and Alberta flying will be done by the DH4. Transborder will be AC and then out east Transborder will be a split between Jets and AC.

I don't see anything positive coming out of the further options of these 220s as far as Express is concerned. Jazz will have to shrink by about 200 pilots based on fleet reduction.

It's just the reality that when the fuel burn of the 223 is equal to the CR9 and the seating comparison is ~140 to 76... that's bleak for Jazz flying.

[cdnavater]

Of the 80 aircraft remaining, Props will be out west and jets out east, I think.

BC and Alberta flying will be done by the DH4. Transborder will be AC and then out east Transborder will be a split between Jets and AC.

I don't see anything positive coming out of the further options of these 220s as far as Express is concerned. Jazz will have to shrink by about 200 pilots based on fleet reduction.

It's just the reality that when the fuel burn of the 223 is equal to the CR9 and the seating comparison is ~140 to 76... that's bleak for Jazz flying.

Since you voted no to the last MOA, AC has been working on plan B and C. Plan B is bring Jazz pilots over DOH and right sizing the fleet, plan C is to give the voting membership a targeted contract with 51% support that includes shifting the 220s to Jazz.

See, you’re not the only one who can wildly speculate the future!

[YC87DRVR]

Of the 80 aircraft remaining, Props will be out west and jets out east, I think.

BC and Alberta flying will be done by the DH4. Transborder will be AC and then out east Transborder will be a split between Jets and AC.

I don't see anything positive coming out of the further options of these 220s as far as Express is concerned. Jazz will have to shrink by about 200 pilots based on fleet reduction.

It's just the reality that when the fuel burn of the 223 is equal to the CR9 and the seating comparison is ~140 to 76... that's bleak for Jazz flying.

Plan B is bring Jazz pilots over DOH and right sizing the fleet

HA!

I think someone might actually burn the headquarters down if that was to happen. Probably trigger PTSD on some of the fellas that went through the last merger.

[RoAF-Mig21]

HA!

I think someone might actually burn the headquarters down if that was to happen. Probably trigger PTSD on some of the fellas that went through the last merger.

Mergers have... AND will happen again. It's the nature of the business

Air Canada / Canadian
United / Continetnal
Delta / Northwest
American / TWA
Southwest / Airtran
Frontier / Spirit

... and so on...

Nothing is off the table in this industry.

P.S. As far as this perticular merger happening? (AC / Jazz) I couldn't even beging to guess... I have no idea.

[kiaszceski]

HA!

I think someone might actually burn the headquarters down if that was to happen. Probably trigger PTSD on some of the fellas that went through the last merger.

Mergers have... AND will happen again. It's the nature of the business

Air Canada / Canadian
United / Continetnal
Delta / Northwest
American / TWA
Southwest / Airtran
Frontier / Spirit

... and so on...

Nothing is off the table in this industry.

P.S. As far as this perticular merger happening? (AC / Jazz) I couldn't even beging to guess... I have no idea.

But all those happened between major or same-level airlines, didn't they?

[RoAF-Mig21]

HA!

I think someone might actually burn the headquarters down if that was to happen. Probably trigger PTSD on some of the fellas that went through the last merger.

Mergers have... AND will happen again. It's the nature of the business

Air Canada / Canadian
United / Continetnal
Delta / Northwest
American / TWA
Southwest / Airtran
Frontier / Spirit

... and so on...

Nothing is off the table in this industry.

P.S. As far as this perticular merger happening? (AC / Jazz) I couldn't even beging to guess... I have no idea.

But all those happened between major or same-level airlines, didn't they?

That's correct! I guess the point of my post was that the airline industry never ceases to surprise us (in all aspects).

[QKZXKV]

Of the 80 aircraft remaining, Props will be out west and jets out east, I think.

BC and Alberta flying will be done by the DH4. Transborder will be AC and then out east Transborder will be a split between Jets and AC.

I don't see anything positive coming out of the further options of these 220s as far as Express is concerned. Jazz will have to shrink by about 200 pilots based on fleet reduction.

It's just the reality that when the fuel burn of the 223 is equal to the CR9 and the seating comparison is ~140 to 76... that's bleak for Jazz flying.

Since you voted no to the last MOA, AC has been working on plan B and C. Plan B is bring Jazz pilots over DOH and right sizing the fleet, plan C is to give the voting membership a targeted contract with 51% support that includes shifting the 220s to Jazz.

See, you’re not the only one who can wildly speculate the future!

Difference is I'm using evidence for my "wild speculation"

Jazz is being reduced period. That was always in the plan. Those who choose to not accept that reality better not whine about it when it comes.

SAN-Mainline
SFO-Mainline
DFW-Mainline
IAH-Mainline
BNA-Rouge
YQB-Rouge
IAD-Mainline
ORD-Mainline

Any others?

Oh and most of that is the high credit YVR flying for the Jet.

[hithere]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

[yowflyer23]

What is the future look like for jazz with AC 220 purchase and up gauging routes?

The future will be to shrink. Upgauging to mainline/reducing frequency on all routes that can support it (to reduce casm) and likely bus service (like American Airlines) for regional routes like YYZ-YXU or YOW-YUL.

[QKZXKV]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

Poor baby

[QKZXKV]

Add on the latest route suspensions out of YYC

YYC-YQR/YXE/YZF/SFO/IAH/YYJ/YCD/YCG/YKA

[rudder]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

There is nothing in commercial aviation that has ever withstood the test of time. Lots of guarantees. Lots of disappointment. 1000 crystal balls. 1000 forecasts for the future.

AC has a plan. AC is in control. It is Jazz’s responsibility to simply meet its CPA obligations.

If a cog in the machine falters, AC is not going to standstill. Each time AC announces another A220 fleet expansion or a Rouge A319 fleet extension is just one more step towards a smaller Express operation. Take note that there have been ZERO fleet renewal announcements for Express.

Pilots with enough years left in the game that what happens after 2025 matters should make good choices.

[Bacunayagua]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

There is nothing in commercial aviation that has ever withstood the test of time. Lots of guarantees. Lots of disappointment. 1000 crystal balls. 1000 forecasts for the future.

AC has a plan. AC is in control. It is Jazz’s responsibility to simply meet its CPA obligations.

If a cog in the machine falters, AC is not going to standstill. Each time AC announces another A220 fleet expansion or a Rouge A319 fleet extension is just one more step towards a smaller Express operation. Take note that there have been ZERO fleet renewal announcements for Express.

Pilots with enough years left in the game that what happens after 2025 matters should make good choices.

Sure seems to be no shortage of people that think the tail is wagging the dog.

[cdnavater]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

There is nothing in commercial aviation that has ever withstood the test of time. Lots of guarantees. Lots of disappointment. 1000 crystal balls. 1000 forecasts for the future.

AC has a plan. AC is in control. It is Jazz’s responsibility to simply meet its CPA obligations.

If a cog in the machine falters, AC is not going to standstill. Each time AC announces another A220 fleet expansion or a Rouge A319 fleet extension is just one more step towards a smaller Express operation. Take note that there have been ZERO fleet renewal announcements for Express.

Pilots with enough years left in the game that what happens after 2025 matters should make good choices.

Rudder, I believe you more than most would understand there would be no fleet renewal announcement while there is on going negotiations, prior to ours was obviously some ongoing at AC, that would delay any such announcement if one were in the works.

QKZXKV,
I realize you’re horny at the thought of Jazz shrinking as you seem to beak off about it every chance you get but there are many long time Jazz pilots who chose it as a career.
Now, to your assertion about your is shrinking, have you given any thought to the fact we are short captains right now and the shrinking could be related to that?
Has your flying grown? Or all is this flying being repatriated replacing other routes, really have you looked in depth or just horny about the fact it’s flying that was done by Jazz, so you lost the big picture.
I am a glass half full guy and I think this is an opportunity for AC to open up new routes with regional aircraft, you know, the pre Covid plan. As has been the history, AC uses Jazz to open new routes until they are viable for mainline, but wouldn’t want to spoil your wet dream so carry on!

[QKZXKV]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

There is nothing in commercial aviation that has ever withstood the test of time. Lots of guarantees. Lots of disappointment. 1000 crystal balls. 1000 forecasts for the future.

AC has a plan. AC is in control. It is Jazz’s responsibility to simply meet its CPA obligations.

If a cog in the machine falters, AC is not going to standstill. Each time AC announces another A220 fleet expansion or a Rouge A319 fleet extension is just one more step towards a smaller Express operation. Take note that there have been ZERO fleet renewal announcements for Express.

Pilots with enough years left in the game that what happens after 2025 matters should make good choices.

Rudder, I believe you more than most would understand there would be no fleet renewal announcement while there is on going negotiations, prior to ours was obviously some ongoing at AC, that would delay any such announcement if one were in the works.

QKZXKV,
I realize you’re horny at the thought of Jazz shrinking as you seem to beak off about it every chance you get but there are many long time Jazz pilots who chose it as a career.
Now, to your assertion about your is shrinking, have you given any thought to the fact we are short captains right now and the shrinking could be related to that?
Has your flying grown? Or all is this flying being repatriated replacing other routes, really have you looked in depth or just horny about the fact it’s flying that was done by Jazz, so you lost the big picture.
I am a glass half full guy and I think this is an opportunity for AC to open up new routes with regional aircraft, you know, the pre Covid plan. As has been the history, AC uses Jazz to open new routes until they are viable for mainline, but wouldn’t want to spoil your wet dream so carry on!

Ok let me address this since you seem to be naive and delusional.

I have not "beaked off" every chance I get. I have only come to this conclusion as of late with the optioning of the A220s.

I would say your glass is half filled with something around 192 proof.

Jazz is short captains yes, but not out west which is where most of the flying is being up gauged or outright turfed.

YYC-YXE Closed
YYC-YQR Closed
YYC-YKA Closed
YYC-SFO Closed
YYC-YCG Closed
YYC-YYJ Closed
YYC-YCD Closed

YVR-SAN Mainline
YVR-DFW Mainline
YVR-ORD Mainline
YVR-IAH new route Straight to Mainline.

Ok with the Canadian routes closing what do you suggest in your expert opinion that AC try out as a new route?

Swift Current?
Brandon?
Flin Flon?
Kenora?
Quesnel?

Not good enough for you?
Where could they possibly send Jazz transborder that they haven't already tried?
Give me a list of ideas...

Continue to convince yourself that everything is as it was in 2018-2019... good luck to you!

[Transition9er2]

My guess is that AC gearing Jazz down in western Canada is in direct response to WJ moving Encore out of Ontario and back into Western Canada along with a shortage of pilots at Jazz. If the contract is to only have Jazz operate at 80 tails, and Jazz is already significantly short pilots, it makes sense to me that AC would actively reduce Jazz down to a fleet and staff size that makes sense to operate at a min of the contract. AC knows what staffing level that would require. AC will pillage the excess pilots into its own ranks to help with their own hiring needs, and Jazz will be a smaller version of itself until AC sees a need to deploy in future markets. AC will then be able to say there’s no pilot shortage because they bolster their pilot ranks and once again they’ll be able to use this as leverage going into the next contract.

They’re always 5 steps ahead.

[Inverted2]

Better bid the E175 and get the rating and a few hours for Porter then…..

[YC87DRVR]

Well then I guess the 17 year contract that we signed in 2018 guaranteeing Jazz a minimum of 80 find from 2025-2035 was actually a wise move. Many on here called us idiots for signing a 17 year contract at the time. I won’t hold my breath for an apology

You keep telling yourself that, as pilots south of the border make triple or more to fly the same aircraft. Nobody will ever say that 17 year deal was a good idea on your part.