YYC Route Suspensions

[QKZXKV]

Caught wind of this earlier on another forum...

Looks like as of January YYC is going to get a big axe. I tried booking these sectors on ETS and Air Canada's website. None are listed.

YYC-YQR/YXE/YZF/SFO/IAH/YYJ/YCD/YCG/YKA

[link821]

Oof..

[kiaszceski]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

[QKZXKV]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

[kiaszceski]

Or maybe they are so short out east for the winter and this is where AC is making money hence they will DH the pilots out east?

[QKZXKV]

Or maybe they are so short out east for the winter and this is where AC is making money hence they will DH the pilots out east?

I hope that's the case... I'm not that optimistic.

[rudder]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

[kiaszceski]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

[PostmasterGeneral]

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

[QKZXKV]

Nothing concrete yet so take it with the smallest grain of salt.

It's temporary until QK can beef up staffing. I hope for YYC crews sake that this is the case.

Could be much to what kiaszceski pointed to

[Transition9er2]

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

AC is not going to cut back on their bread and butter feeders to Toronto and Vancouver. If you actually read my post above, that’s exactly the business plan I was referring to. They’ll bring everyone through their “own backyard” (Toronto ot Vancouver) and let WJ burn the cash slogging it out with the LCCs over the table scraps for the YYC centric flying.

Maybe re-read that whole thing again.

[Transition9er2]

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

AC is not going to cut back on their bread and butter feeders to Toronto and Vancouver. If you actually read my post above, that’s exactly the business plan I was referring to. They’ll bring everyone through their “own backyard” (Toronto ot Vancouver) and let WJ burn the cash slogging it out with the LCCs over the table scraps for the YYC centric flying.

Maybe re-read that whole thing again.

Ya again, I’m gonna disagree with you. You aren’t very clear in what you’re posting now.

You mentioned that WJ and AC should stay in their respective backyards as a way to possibly manipulate price due to minimal competition in the west as yields are low - airports and loads have been extremely high in these areas on pretty much all routes and carriers based on my experience being through the West in recent weeks.

Then you infered the west is a saturated market and you’re confused as to why AC would “waste their time” out there - to which again I disagreed and posted my lived experiences and suggesting that in fact AC seems to be doing extremely well in those markets. Not to mention, no ULCC appears to be attempting to compete directly with Jazz or Encore in the regional routes at the moment, which leaves me a little confused as to where you’re going with your posts.

Not sure what you want me to reread, more importantly I don’t care. I’m simply disagreeing with you based on lived experiences vs. your posts that are based on assumptions and opinions.

That’s all. No need to take up any more valuable AvCanada space on this.

[rudder]

This thread is not that complicated.

YYC is not a hub for AC.

[PostmasterGeneral]

This thread is not that complicated.

YYC is not a hub for AC.

Bingo. My point exactly.

[Sharklasers]

Lots of pilots have a difficult time understanding the difference between good loads and good yields.

The yields are shot in YYC until and when the LCCs start folding up. AC has a choice about whether to slog it out with them for point to point traffic (ei yyc-yqr) for peanuts/loss or just shoot the revenue significant pass through traffic from those outstations through the hubs of yvr/yyz and over to Europe or Asia.

There were lots of Jazz YYC commuters from those outstations and I wonder how they will fair now.

Further Jazz has shown absolutely 0 restraint in the past regarding taking the hatchet to a base. YHZ/YVR/YYZ immediately springs to mind.

[Blue42]

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

Good loads do not equal good yields!!

[Transition9er2]

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

Good loads do not equal good yields!!

Ya, thats a fair comment!

[fish4life]

True but for a company like AC if the flights are full and the yields are shit then they are pricing it incorrectly

[Splash]

True but for a company like AC if the flights are full and the yields are shit then they are pricing it incorrectly

Two edged sword, increase the fares above what your competitors are offering, risk lower loads factors as consumers will just book elsewhere. It's a very delicate balance for yield management to get right. I suspect what may be occurring on the upcoming suspended routes is yield management cannot generate higher revenue on the flights to cover costs without creating slippage to the competitors. So yes, the flights are full, yet they may actually be losing money consistently and they've decided to cut their loses as they don't see an end in sight. It's important to note that WS is committing a significant amount of their capacity and resources to YYC after deciding to draw down their eastern operations and may be quite prepared to undercut AC to defend their turf as well as increase their already significant market share.

[Rowdy]

Some misinformation in these posts.

YYC-YCG hasn't happened in a WHILE. Basically since the departure of the Classic. Its been YVR-YCG on the Q.

YCD and YYJ-YYC are rarely operated with less than half a load. Pretty easy to nix.

The oil patch took a huge hit and as such, alberta sees a fraction of the flying it used to.

YYC and YEG -YZF come and go with AC.

Jazz is short staffed. AC is short staffed and both are struggling to keep machines in the air..

Pilots scare easily and both Jazz and AC are demanding concessions from their pilot groups outside of contract negotiations without bringing money to the table. Pretty easy to make the now senior YYC based pilots nervous...

[kiaszceski]

While I understand AC cutting unprofitable routes, it feels weird to cut Regina and Saskatoon as well, those flights were pretty busy.
Maybe AC made a deal with WJ to leave YYC alone if they leave the regional flying out east, who knows…

[maverick12]

Air Canada Calgary Schedule Changes

On Wednesday several news outlets began reporting that Air Canada would be cancelling flights from Saskatoon and Regina to Calgary starting mid-January. There are also other cancelled and reduced routes through Calgary that were not reported in the news. It is our understanding that this reduction in flying is directly related to the block hours Jazz can provide Air Canada, due in large part to Pilot staffing. This raises concern for all Jazz pilots, but in particular for Calgary based pilots as this change to route structure directly impacts Calgary flying.

The growing operational problem of maintaining block hours was not unforeseen. As said in the July 15 Chairman’s Message, Air Canada has many options to relieve operational pressure without negotiating changes to our wages and working conditions. Reducing block hours and cancelling flights is the option they have taken. In our opinion, this strategy cannot be a long-term solution unless Air Canada is committed to forfeiting substantial market share and revenue.

We would like to assure members that the upcoming January equipment bid will not contain any downgrades or displacements from the Calgary base. The MEC and Company both agree that 2023 could see significant change. There are viable solutions that can both support Air Canada’s commercial objectives and improve our working conditions.

In solidarity,

JAZ MEC

[PostmasterGeneral]

That MEC message doesn’t really hold much water. AC may be forefitting some market share in Calgary, but if they can re-allocate those resources to the east, where profit margins are higher, it makes a strong business case for doing so.

[Inverted2]

They’ve slashed flying to the other bases in the past. YVR lost the RJ about 12 years ago, was only DH8-300 for a couple years. YYZ lost it’s RJ flying to Georgian and was only Dash 8’s for a few years. It’s a game they play. In the past it was a way to get rid of the senior pilots but this time I do think it’s because of a lack of qualified pilots and the lousy wages.