YYC Route Suspensions

[QKZXKV]

Caught wind of this earlier on another forum...

Looks like as of January YYC is going to get a big axe. I tried booking these sectors on ETS and Air Canada's website. None are listed.

YYC-YQR/YXE/YZF/SFO/IAH/YYJ/YCD/YCG/YKA

[link821]

Oof..

[kiaszceski]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

[QKZXKV]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

[kiaszceski]

Or maybe they are so short out east for the winter and this is where AC is making money hence they will DH the pilots out east?

[QKZXKV]

Or maybe they are so short out east for the winter and this is where AC is making money hence they will DH the pilots out east?

I hope that's the case... I'm not that optimistic.

[rudder]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

[kiaszceski]

Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?

Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

[PostmasterGeneral]

The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.

Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

[QKZXKV]

Nothing concrete yet so take it with the smallest grain of salt.

It's temporary until QK can beef up staffing. I hope for YYC crews sake that this is the case.

Could be much to what kiaszceski pointed to

[Transition9er2]

The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.

If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.

I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

AC is not going to cut back on their bread and butter feeders to Toronto and Vancouver. If you actually read my post above, that’s exactly the business plan I was referring to. They’ll bring everyone through their “own backyard” (Toronto ot Vancouver) and let WJ burn the cash slogging it out with the LCCs over the table scraps for the YYC centric flying.

Maybe re-read that whole thing again.

[Transition9er2]

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

AC is not going to cut back on their bread and butter feeders to Toronto and Vancouver. If you actually read my post above, that’s exactly the business plan I was referring to. They’ll bring everyone through their “own backyard” (Toronto ot Vancouver) and let WJ burn the cash slogging it out with the LCCs over the table scraps for the YYC centric flying.

Maybe re-read that whole thing again.

Ya again, I’m gonna disagree with you. You aren’t very clear in what you’re posting now.

You mentioned that WJ and AC should stay in their respective backyards as a way to possibly manipulate price due to minimal competition in the west as yields are low - airports and loads have been extremely high in these areas on pretty much all routes and carriers based on my experience being through the West in recent weeks.

Then you infered the west is a saturated market and you’re confused as to why AC would “waste their time” out there - to which again I disagreed and posted my lived experiences and suggesting that in fact AC seems to be doing extremely well in those markets. Not to mention, no ULCC appears to be attempting to compete directly with Jazz or Encore in the regional routes at the moment, which leaves me a little confused as to where you’re going with your posts.

Not sure what you want me to reread, more importantly I don’t care. I’m simply disagreeing with you based on lived experiences vs. your posts that are based on assumptions and opinions.

That’s all. No need to take up any more valuable AvCanada space on this.

[rudder]

This thread is not that complicated.

YYC is not a hub for AC.

[PostmasterGeneral]

This thread is not that complicated.

YYC is not a hub for AC.

Bingo. My point exactly.

[Sharklasers]

Lots of pilots have a difficult time understanding the difference between good loads and good yields.

The yields are shot in YYC until and when the LCCs start folding up. AC has a choice about whether to slog it out with them for point to point traffic (ei yyc-yqr) for peanuts/loss or just shoot the revenue significant pass through traffic from those outstations through the hubs of yvr/yyz and over to Europe or Asia.

There were lots of Jazz YYC commuters from those outstations and I wonder how they will fair now.

Further Jazz has shown absolutely 0 restraint in the past regarding taking the hatchet to a base. YHZ/YVR/YYZ immediately springs to mind.

[Blue42]

Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

Good loads do not equal good yields!!

[Transition9er2]

If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.

YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.

Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.

If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.

Good loads do not equal good yields!!

Ya, thats a fair comment!

[fish4life]

True but for a company like AC if the flights are full and the yields are shit then they are pricing it incorrectly

[Splash]

True but for a company like AC if the flights are full and the yields are shit then they are pricing it incorrectly

Two edged sword, increase the fares above what your competitors are offering, risk lower loads factors as consumers will just book elsewhere. It's a very delicate balance for yield management to get right. I suspect what may be occurring on the upcoming suspended routes is yield management cannot generate higher revenue on the flights to cover costs without creating slippage to the competitors. So yes, the flights are full, yet they may actually be losing money consistently and they've decided to cut their loses as they don't see an end in sight. It's important to note that WS is committing a significant amount of their capacity and resources to YYC after deciding to draw down their eastern operations and may be quite prepared to undercut AC to defend their turf as well as increase their already significant market share.