YYC Route Suspensions
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YYC Route Suspensions
Caught wind of this earlier on another forum...
Looks like as of January YYC is going to get a big axe. I tried booking these sectors on ETS and Air Canada's website. None are listed.
YYC-YQR/YXE/YZF/SFO/IAH/YYJ/YCD/YCG/YKA
Looks like as of January YYC is going to get a big axe. I tried booking these sectors on ETS and Air Canada's website. None are listed.
YYC-YQR/YXE/YZF/SFO/IAH/YYJ/YCD/YCG/YKA
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?
Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?
Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:51 pm Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?
Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.
Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Or maybe they are so short out east for the winter and this is where AC is making money hence they will DH the pilots out east?
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
I hope that's the case... I'm not that optimistic.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:30 pm Or maybe they are so short out east for the winter and this is where AC is making money hence they will DH the pilots out east?
Re: YYC Route Suspensions
The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.QKZXKV wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:24 pmThe timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:51 pm Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?
Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.
Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).
If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.
I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?rudder wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:43 amThe Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.QKZXKV wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:24 pmThe timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:51 pm Interesting…
Then why are they still offering Yyc spots during current GS?
Edit : I still see them listed although only one direct flight is operated by the Q400. for YYC-YQR, but I still see YYC-YYJ and YYC-YXE as well.
Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).
If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.
I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:10 amIs the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?rudder wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:43 amThe Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.QKZXKV wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:24 pm
The timetable hasn't caught up yet. If you actually try listing stby from Jan on or booking confirmed, they aren't there.
Could very well be a concession tactic for the contract negotiations with ALPA. No airline to give the flying to now that ZX and KV are Jazz, easier to just threaten removing flying (trimming the fat).
If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.
I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.
YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Nothing concrete yet so take it with the smallest grain of salt.
It's temporary until QK can beef up staffing. I hope for YYC crews sake that this is the case.
Could be much to what kiaszceski pointed to
It's temporary until QK can beef up staffing. I hope for YYC crews sake that this is the case.
Could be much to what kiaszceski pointed to
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Ya I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:08 pmIf WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:10 amIs the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?rudder wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:43 am
The Jazz YYC crew base has been under pressure for two decades. Time may have finally run out.
If this AC timetable sticks (it is AC that makes all commercial route and equipment decisions) it is entirely likely that the Jazz YYC crew base will close.
I do not see this as a bargaining tactic. It is Jazz’s job to staff and operate the Express flying schedule submitted by AC. There have been impactful changes in the past, probably will be more in the future. The CPA will allocate the costs of the base reduction or closure to AC.
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.
YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.
If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
AC is not going to cut back on their bread and butter feeders to Toronto and Vancouver. If you actually read my post above, that’s exactly the business plan I was referring to. They’ll bring everyone through their “own backyard” (Toronto ot Vancouver) and let WJ burn the cash slogging it out with the LCCs over the table scraps for the YYC centric flying.Transition9er2 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:15 pmYa I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:08 pmIf WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:10 am
Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.
YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.
If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.
Maybe re-read that whole thing again.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Ya again, I’m gonna disagree with you. You aren’t very clear in what you’re posting now.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:54 amAC is not going to cut back on their bread and butter feeders to Toronto and Vancouver. If you actually read my post above, that’s exactly the business plan I was referring to. They’ll bring everyone through their “own backyard” (Toronto ot Vancouver) and let WJ burn the cash slogging it out with the LCCs over the table scraps for the YYC centric flying.Transition9er2 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:15 pmYa I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:08 pm
If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.
YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.
If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.
Maybe re-read that whole thing again.
You mentioned that WJ and AC should stay in their respective backyards as a way to possibly manipulate price due to minimal competition in the west as yields are low - airports and loads have been extremely high in these areas on pretty much all routes and carriers based on my experience being through the West in recent weeks.
Then you infered the west is a saturated market and you’re confused as to why AC would “waste their time” out there - to which again I disagreed and posted my lived experiences and suggesting that in fact AC seems to be doing extremely well in those markets. Not to mention, no ULCC appears to be attempting to compete directly with Jazz or Encore in the regional routes at the moment, which leaves me a little confused as to where you’re going with your posts.
Not sure what you want me to reread, more importantly I don’t care. I’m simply disagreeing with you based on lived experiences vs. your posts that are based on assumptions and opinions.
That’s all. No need to take up any more valuable AvCanada space on this.
Re: YYC Route Suspensions
This thread is not that complicated.
YYC is not a hub for AC.
YYC is not a hub for AC.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Lots of pilots have a difficult time understanding the difference between good loads and good yields.
The yields are shot in YYC until and when the LCCs start folding up. AC has a choice about whether to slog it out with them for point to point traffic (ei yyc-yqr) for peanuts/loss or just shoot the revenue significant pass through traffic from those outstations through the hubs of yvr/yyz and over to Europe or Asia.
There were lots of Jazz YYC commuters from those outstations and I wonder how they will fair now.
Further Jazz has shown absolutely 0 restraint in the past regarding taking the hatchet to a base. YHZ/YVR/YYZ immediately springs to mind.
The yields are shot in YYC until and when the LCCs start folding up. AC has a choice about whether to slog it out with them for point to point traffic (ei yyc-yqr) for peanuts/loss or just shoot the revenue significant pass through traffic from those outstations through the hubs of yvr/yyz and over to Europe or Asia.
There were lots of Jazz YYC commuters from those outstations and I wonder how they will fair now.
Further Jazz has shown absolutely 0 restraint in the past regarding taking the hatchet to a base. YHZ/YVR/YYZ immediately springs to mind.
Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Good loads do not equal good yields!!Transition9er2 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:15 pmYa I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:08 pmIf WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.kiaszceski wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:10 am
Is the YYC base so unprofitable they want to close it, or maybe just give the west to westjet ?
Interesting times, the timetable has changed for February, no more direct flights to yxe/yqr.
YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.
If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.
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Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Ya, thats a fair comment!Blue42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:30 amGood loads do not equal good yields!!Transition9er2 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 5:15 pmYa I’m gonna go ahead and completely disagree with you on that. I’ve flown in and out of YYC from many different cities recently and every-time loads are over capacity. YYC-YYZ flights have been beyond full and just recently AC stopped flying 3 daily WB’s between the 2 cities. Was just on a flight between YVR-YYC and the gate agents were asking for volunteers to take the next flight.PostmasterGeneral wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:08 pm
If WJ and AC both agreed to stay in their respective backyards, they could keep prices high, as the competition would be minimal. I suspect this is what happened with WJ and their “returning to our roots” announcement.
YYC is saturated now and yields are low, with WJ, Flair, Lynx, and Jetlines all competing for the same small market. It makes no sense for AC to waste any time in the market.
If YYC is so saturated as you say, AC is sure doing one hell of a sales job to keep selling out their aircraft.
Re: YYC Route Suspensions
True but for a company like AC if the flights are full and the yields are shit then they are pricing it incorrectly
Re: YYC Route Suspensions
Two edged sword, increase the fares above what your competitors are offering, risk lower loads factors as consumers will just book elsewhere. It's a very delicate balance for yield management to get right. I suspect what may be occurring on the upcoming suspended routes is yield management cannot generate higher revenue on the flights to cover costs without creating slippage to the competitors. So yes, the flights are full, yet they may actually be losing money consistently and they've decided to cut their loses as they don't see an end in sight. It's important to note that WS is committing a significant amount of their capacity and resources to YYC after deciding to draw down their eastern operations and may be quite prepared to undercut AC to defend their turf as well as increase their already significant market share.