TA…HERE IT IS AND IT SUCKS

[Joeschumer]

Top scale Capt makes more than equiv AC 737 skip. Senior FO a little less.

I wish for yours and all our sakes that were the case. But for now…

737 Capt. Day - 216 Night- 244
FO Day - 145. Night - 162

Plus Nav and Ovrseas.

The hourly is lower but the guaranteed salary actually is higher than AC, regardless, very few if anybody will be at the top scale during the duration of this CBA.

[DanWEC]

Top scale Capt makes more than equiv AC 737 skip. Senior FO a little less.

I wish for yours and all our sakes that were the case. But for now…

737 Capt. Day - 216 Night- 244
FO Day - 145. Night - 162

Plus Nav and Ovrseas.

Ah, yes. Well the day rate is the same. Spitting distance anyhow, which is still something to have such a comparable between AC and a new LCC. But I agree, especially combined with pension, the lack of benefits deducted at AC, etc. Guess it isn't actually higher. Still, it gets the water moving.

[slottedslat]

Under current contract with 80 MMG, if you work 5 hours of OT that's $75,524 in a year

Under new contract, you also work 85 hours but receive $73,470

Enough said.

[TC.Enforcement]

Under current contract with 80 MMG, if you work 5 hours of OT that's $75,524 in a year

Under new contract, you also work 85 hours but receive $73,470

Enough said.

This is false. That 5 hours above 80 is paid at straight time. So for working 85 hours right now, you’d earn $71,327 in a year. BUT, I still see your point.

[co-joe]

Big old @#$! you to FOs.

How is being the highest paid FOs in Canada for 2 years and then upgrading, a big F U?

[Aspiredtofly]

I'm skeptical about what the upgrade time is at each base at flair

[Schlomo Overpeck]

I'm skeptical about what the upgrade time is at each base at flair

Most on property should upgrade to Captain within two years no matter what base. That’s pretty good in my opinion.

[oakmoss1889]

Also OT threshold increasing from 85 to 88 credits. Are we really going backwards??

[kiaszceski]

So captains gets 25% raise while FO get a -5%?
Now we know who negotiated for who.

[rudder]

So captains gets 25% raise while FO get a -5%?
Now we know who negotiated for who.

66.67%. That is what the FO pay should be vs same tenure CA. Possible exception for probation pay (year 1).

At one point in time this ratio was the standard. Seems to have been forgotten the past two decades.

[C-GGGQ]

Big old @#$! you to FOs.

How is being the highest paid FOs in Canada for 2 years and then upgrading, a big F U?

Chrono Jet starts their 737 fo’s at $80k… just sayin.

[Bacunayagua]

Big old @#$! you to FOs.

How is being the highest paid FOs in Canada for 2 years and then upgrading, a big F U?

Chrono Jet starts their 737 fo’s at $80k… just sayin.

Yeah, Morningstar and CargoJet also start higher. Morningstar I believe is the highest in Canada at around 90K for a first year FO. Amazing how much Kool-aid these guys at Flair are drinking......."Highest paid FO's!!!!!!". Yeah ok, bud.

[twa22]

How is being the highest paid FOs in Canada for 2 years and then upgrading, a big F U?

Chrono Jet starts their 737 fo’s at $80k… just sayin.

Yeah, Morningstar and CargoJet also start higher. Morningstar I believe is the highest in Canada at around 90K for a first year FO. Amazing how much Kool-aid these guys at Flair are drinking......."Highest paid FO's!!!!!!". Yeah ok, bud.

Yea, but, those are 757/767s, not quite comparable, and, Cargojet is 76K for yr 1 FO, which given the a/c type is well, rather weak, it's only 2000 more a year vs the proposed Flair TA... see the previous page where safetyfirst123 posted a pays cale of all major 705 operators.

This is by no means a defense on Flair's part. The TA for FOs is weak at best, i'd say even insulting given the massive spread between pay increase for captains vs FOs

I had hopes this new TA would get the ball rolling for everyone else, but much like others have stated, expecting a ULCC to lead the way in pay was rather optimistic

[Bacunayagua]

Yeah thats fair. Either way, I wouldn't be bragging about having the highest first or second year pay when you quickly lag behind everyone else afterwards.

Does anyone have any other information regarding the rest of the TA? There should be much more than just pay.

[Vectorvictor1304]

I don't know about all the FOs here but I know that 71k is not what you end up earning with the extras. (GDO buy outs, OverTime, Work into GDOs, 3% Matching with no probation time) My first year pay ended up at approximately 100k and that wasn't even trying to pick up GDO's, only accepting them when called. I live an awesome lifestyle being home pretty much every night with my family barring training or the odd IROP. If you are here to work you can live quite comfortably, if you want to work the bare minimum then sure you will get paid less. (but still more than all the other airlines)

I am able to book and go on mini vacations through out the year without using my vacation days. We have jump-seat agreements with AC, AirTransat, United and well maybe WJ again in the future, and only pay 70$ to go to travel the world is a great benefit. They are also adding a commuting policy to alleviate stress on those who choose to commute.

Overall I would hope most people here who are FOs want to further themselves and will be looking at an upgrade in the next 0.5-3 years max. Dont loose sight of this, that means your salary will more than double and you will be getting bigger jet PIC time which you could take with you anywhere in the world. (I look at this as an insurance policy if things went tits up around here)

Let's not forget the expansion plans, things are going to be happening quickly around here and 3 years will come and go in no time and we will be right back at the bargaining table again. The ways things are going we will most likely be able to ask for more and receive it then.

In the end people, vote the way you honestly feel about this contract it is a democracy. Question things and don't just believe what you "hear", follow it up with the people who negotiated the contract and with the contract it self. Get the Facts, hearsay is very dangerous.

Personally I agree that the FOs Salary should have gone up more, definitely at year 2, but the opportunity to upgrade and make 150K in less than a years time, far out weighs this in my opinion.

[Aspiredtofly]

Overall, AC has to improve alot alot alot alot and alot..

[oakmoss1889]

I don't know about all the FOs here but I know that 71k is not what you end up earning with the extras. (GDO buy outs, OverTime, Work into GDOs, 3% Matching with no probation time) My first year pay ended up at approximately 100k and that wasn't even trying to pick up GDO's, only accepting them when called. I live an awesome lifestyle being home pretty much every night with my family barring training or the odd IROP. If you are here to work you can live quite comfortably, if you want to work the bare minimum then sure you will get paid less. (but still more than all the other airlines)

So new "Grey" days = less chance at GDOS. new 88 hr threshold for OT = less OT . new MMG 85 hrs (w/18 days worked) = potential to be scheduled more days = less chance of GDOs

I am able to book and go on mini vacations through out the year without using my vacation days. We have jump-seat agreements with AC, AirTransat, United and well maybe WJ again in the future, and only pay 70$ to go to travel the world is a great benefit. They are also adding a commuting policy to alleviate stress on those who choose to commute.

You get this at almost any other airline. Most airlines have much better travel benefits.

Overall I would hope most people here who are FOs want to further themselves and will be looking at an upgrade in the next 0.5-3 years max. Dont loose sight of this, that means your salary will more than double and you will be getting bigger jet PIC time which you could take with you anywhere in the world. (I look at this as an insurance policy if things went tits up around here)

Its not just about personal gain. If Flair cant attract pilots, and loses even more (currently cancelling flights due to staff shortages) its going to be a problem for everyone down the road.

Personally I agree that the FOs Salary should have gone up more, definitely at year 2, but the opportunity to upgrade and make 150K in less than a years time, far out weighs this in my opinion.

Youre forgetting all the pilots theyve hired at ~1000 hrs. They wont be upgrading that quickly...they may look to go elsewhere in the meantime.

[twa22]

So what are the timeframes like? What's the deadline to vote? If yes vote, is the contract effective immediately? If no vote, how long will the negotiations continue for?

[fish4life]

Flair first year FO rate (2023) $72.09 x 1.03 (company match) = 74.19
WJ first year (2022 rate can’t find a 2023 one) $64.92 x 1.2 (company match) = $77.90

[co-joe]

Big old @#$! you to FOs.

How is being the highest paid FOs in Canada for 2 years and then upgrading, a big F U?

Chrono Jet starts their 737 fo’s at $80k… just sayin.

Who? Oh the cargo charter company that only flies in Quebec? What's the rest of their pay scale like? PCC says they only get 8 GDOs a month. When do they open a yyz, yow, ykf, yyc, yeg, yvr, and yxx bases again?