TA…HERE IT IS AND IT SUCKS

[Canadaflyer46]

Stop comparing to the US. It makes ZERO difference to an arbitrator. Is it interesting and something to strive towards? of course. Poor Canada is a laggard in just about every business and at every level of pay and compensation. Doctors, Lawyers, Same. Welcome to socialist Canada.

It IS a step in the right direction and only a 3 year deal. As for FOs, they have very few senior FOs and that means more than 3 years. Its virtually a brand new company post covid. The time to command is about the quickest in the business right now. So you're a new FO with 2000-3000K hrs and get to fly a brand new 737. Make roughly 75K and likely get to 100K with some extra work. Upgrade in a short amount of time. Live in your base and home pretty much every night with the vast majority of flying during the day. Whats the problem again? Haters gonna hate.
Be happy.

It’s this idiot mentality that people have in Canada that has held this industry back. STOP it. Ask for better — better yet you have this one chance to fight for it.

It’s people like the above that have been bottom barrel of the industry taking anything they can get to get into a flying job. It’s time to call out this bullshit. Pilots in Canada made 75k long ago and the housing market was affordable. 75k as a pilot with the carrot of quick upgrade. You know where to put that carrot.

150k to start as a 737 skipper is disgraceful still. No YOS?? You’re kidding me. Look at AC payscales long ago. It’s this settling mentality that holds us all back.

You won’t get US wages but you aren’t worth less than 50% of the value of a US pilot. Wake the fu%# up.

Huge +1.

[daedalusx]

Agreed but then again, look at the precedents set by Swoop, Sunwing, Jazz, etc.

It’s a hard sell to get 180k for Capt and 90k+ for FOs when Sunwing or Swoop is around 115/62.
I think they should have gone for a metoo clause in case WJ is able to get some good gains on their negos because ultimately they will have more leverage in the round of negotiations than the Flair membership.

[flyinhigh]

So main question is, where is the trip and duty rigs?

There is no mention what so ever in the presentation. If there is none, why the fack would you vote on this? That alone is a game changer when it comes to life style.

Increasing MMG to 85 hours is not a raise when you actually work that. Having OT kick in at 90 hours is utter horse manure. To work that, you are working alot of days.

To the guy that keeps saying you can make 100k with a couple days of OT. Give you're head a shake. You can do that at every company.

[fruz]

Flair isn't going to shit down if pilots vote no to this. Let's be clear.

In the US, even the LCC's made gains. Why are Canadian LCC's willing to accept less? Why are we even using the argument "well this is a different type of company than AC or WS". Is this carrier willing to shut things down because you guys want more money? Probably not.

This is the best time to make gains for yourselves. Accepting subpar gains now will inhibit your ability to make more gains when the industry isn't as ripe as it is now. You'll never have this position again. Don't waste it.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Vote NO!FIGHT FOR $89,000 FO salary. Also ensure there is a me too clause for FO/CPT salary. Flair should ensure FO’s are paid 20% more than WJ.

[strengthinumbers]

Rumours coming out that a deal is to be introduced to Sunwing pilots this weekend or early next week.

Curious to see how their deal compares to Flair.

When is your vote, will you guys be able to see this potential deal before yours closes?

[ant_321]

Rumours coming out that a deal is to be introduced to Sunwing pilots this weekend or early next week.

Curious to see how their deal compares to Flair.

When is your vote, will you guys be able to see this potential deal before yours closes?

From PCC

BREAKING -

PCC INSIDER NEWS

PCC INSIDER has learned from that Sunwing Airlines MEC will release a proposed LOU announcement shortly outlining the following progress between the airline and its Pilot Group.

New Pay for Sunwing Pilots is rumored to be WJA Pilot Pay rates plus 2.5 %. This would constitue an increase of 30 Million dollars to the contract.

The Union, in return, has dropped certain outstanding grievances.

This development could place Sunwing Pilots as the Top Paid 737 Pilot in Canada.

PCC INSIDER
NEWS / INSIGHT / TIPS

PILOT CAREER CENTER

[Apestogetherstrong]

Rumored to be SW LOU. This puts Flair to shame. It beats Flair FO yr 2. Another reason to VOTE NO! Besides pilots took a risk coming to Flair. With high risk there should be higher reward. Pretty sure WJ new contract is going to beat Flair too.

[RobertChow]

Rumored to be SW LOU. This puts Flair to shame. It beats Flair FO yr 2. Another reason to VOTE NO! Besides pilots took a risk coming to Flair. With high risk there should be higher reward. Pretty sure WJ new contract is going to beat Flair too.

Well your rumour for the 89k at Flair was wrong. I’ll take what you say with half a grain of salt.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Rumored to be SW LOU. This puts Flair to shame. It beats Flair FO yr 2. Another reason to VOTE NO! Besides pilots took a risk coming to Flair. With high risk there should be higher reward. Pretty sure WJ new contract is going to beat Flair too.

Well your rumour for the 89k at Flair was wrong. I’ll take what you say with half a grain of salt.

Thats why its called a “rumour”.

[RobertChow]

Rumored to be SW LOU. This puts Flair to shame. It beats Flair FO yr 2. Another reason to VOTE NO! Besides pilots took a risk coming to Flair. With high risk there should be higher reward. Pretty sure WJ new contract is going to beat Flair too.

Well your rumour for the 89k at Flair was wrong. I’ll take what you say with half a grain of salt.

Thats why its called a “rumour”.

No shit. How about you post when you know.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Well your rumour for the 89k at Flair was wrong. I’ll take what you say with half a grain of salt.

Thats why its called a “rumour”.

No shit. How about you post when you know.

How about you start respecting yourself and ask for better wages and working conditions!!!

[Apestogetherstrong]

Canadian pilots are paid way less than other countries. Whether its US, Europe, Middle East or Asia. Now is the time to fight for better contracts. Now is the time to fight for better wages. Stop bringing each other down. Raise your voice and express your opinions to your managers, reps etc. the biggest lesson we can learn from US is that their pilots respect each other regardless of whos uniform you are wearing (Delta, AA, SW, JB, United or whichever). However we look down upon each other.
Just look at the paystub and tell me at what step pay we will make this kind of money in Flair

[Tdicommuter]

I just had a conversation with a friend in south Africa who is looking at coming over to work for flair. He is being told they would like to hire 80 DEC. To the people who think they don't need to worry about the first officer pay scale because it won't apply I would be super cautious. That many DECs will stop all upgrades for a long time. Maybe you should ask your management what that training plan actually looks like.

Again this is not me being negative or nah saying flair, more concern for people who may get screwed and not see it coming.

[Alpha6600]

Some more charts for reference ...

PHOTO-2022-12-05-22-19-54.jpg (99.56 KiB) Viewed 2683 times

PHOTO-2022-12-05-22-19-53.jpg (107.14 KiB) Viewed 2683 times

Looks like a no to me!

Transat parity or bust.

[daedalusx]

Don’t get too excited about the upcoming Sunwing TA ... it wont match AT.

[pacman007]

While I agree those wages are poor, not every airline gets a bailout yearly!
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/montreal/ ... 0.amp.html

[MaxAuto]

Don’t get too excited about the upcoming Sunwing TA ... it wont match AT.

AT rates are a wide body narrow body mix rate. A321 also have more seats than a 737-800.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Rumored to be SW LOU. This puts Flair to shame. It beats Flair FO yr 2. Another reason to VOTE NO! Besides pilots took a risk coming to Flair. With high risk there should be higher reward. Pretty sure WJ new contract is going to beat Flair too.

This new proposed SWG payscale doesn't make sense to me. 75 MMG (as per the table) X 12 months = 900 annual hours.

A year 1 Captain making $162.41 per hour X 900 hours = $146,169 (not $151,854 as indicated in the table).

And, the F/O rates look like they approximate 1000 annual hours (Year 1 F/O $66.54/hour = $66,543 annual salary).

Am I missing something?

[tbaylx]

I just had a conversation with a friend in south Africa who is looking at coming over to work for flair. He is being told they would like to hire 80 DEC. To the people who think they don't need to worry about the first officer pay scale because it won't apply I would be super cautious. That many DECs will stop all upgrades for a long time. Maybe you should ask your management what that training plan actually looks like.

Again this is not me being negative or nah saying flair, more concern for people who may get screwed and not see it coming.

Your friend is badly misinformed. I heard from a friend in India that Flair will soon be flying single pilot operations with only FOs and they won’t need any captains!