ULCC vs. Jazz

[need1500rule]

Hey Guys,

I am 2000+ 703 captain with ATPL right now. I want to hear your opinion on my career path.
I have a choice to make whether to go to Jazz or ULCC set up in YYC. I’ve been talking to many pilots in the industry and older pilots who have been in the industry for a while tend to tell me to go to Jazz for its flow agreement to AC and stability.

Younger people say to skip the regional and go to the 737 job and then I can go to AC a couple years later. Jazz flow hasn’t been what it used to be and AC has no plan to catch up with 60% quota and my opinion is they will continue to not honour it in 2023. I tend to agree with my peers and it might be better to have 737 type rating now even if the company goes under in few years. With the type rating and experience under my belt I can go easily to AC or other airlines. I have personally seen pilots going to places like Cargojet or Flair and going to AC after 6 months stint there in 2022.
My reservation on going to ULCC is I want to consider older pilots’ wisdom in this matter. Also this strong hiring trend can die down next year due to recession.

Pros of joining Jazz would be:
1. Possible flow to AC later
2. Possible quick upgrade to captain then better pay
3. Travel benefit

Cons of joining Jazz:
1. Low pay 42k
2. Uncertain future on the AC flow
3. Not sure which base or equipment I will get

Pros of joining ULCC (LXXX air):
1. Better initial pay 57k
2. Better equipment (737) and confirmed base (YYC)
3. Relatively higher seniority with more growth in 2023

Cons of ULCC:
1. Uncertainty and no long term stability
2. No travel benefit

My ultimate career goal would be going to the U.S (I have no green card). If I can’t make it to the U.S. I want to end up in AC.
I’m aware Jazz is a good company to work for. I’m trying to avoid a situation where I quit Jazz during my ground school and going to another company as I want to protect my reputation. I want to hear from you guys on what you think as I can’t really decide and my choice changes every hour. Thank you in advance.

[loose]

Hey Guys,

I am 2000+ 703 captain with ATPL right now. I want to hear your opinion on my career path.
I have a choice to make whether to go to Jazz or ULCC set up in YYC. I’ve been talking to many pilots in the industry and older pilots who have been in the industry for a while tend to tell me to go to Jazz for its flow agreement to AC and stability.

Younger people say to skip the regional and go to the 737 job and then I can go to AC a couple years later. Jazz flow hasn’t been what it used to be and AC has no plan to catch up with 60% quota and my opinion is they will continue to not honour it in 2023. I tend to agree with my peers and it might be better to have 737 type rating now even if the company goes under in few years. With the type rating and experience under my belt I can go easily to AC or other airlines. I have personally seen pilots going to places like Cargojet or Flair and going to AC after 6 months stint there in 2022.
My reservation on going to ULCC is I want to consider older pilots’ wisdom in this matter. Also this strong hiring trend can die down next year due to recession.

Pros of joining Jazz would be:
1. Possible flow to AC later
2. Possible quick upgrade to captain then better pay
3. Travel benefit

Cons of joining Jazz:
1. Low pay 42k
2. Uncertain future on the AC flow
3. Not sure which base or equipment I will get

Pros of joining ULCC (LXXX air):
1. Better initial pay 57k
2. Better equipment (737) and confirmed base (YYC)
3. Relatively higher seniority with more growth in 2023

Cons of ULCC:
1. Uncertainty and no long term stability
2. No travel benefit

My ultimate career goal would be going to the U.S (I have no green card). If I can’t make it to the U.S. I want to end up in AC.
I’m aware Jazz is a good company to work for. I’m trying to avoid a situation where I quit Jazz during my ground school and going to another company as I want to protect my reputation. I want to hear from you guys on what you think as I can’t really decide and my choice changes every hour. Thank you in advance.

If I was in your position I’d get into the ULCC get your type rating and put in some 500 hrs to get a sense of the operation, then apply to AC. You get get into Jazz now it’d be at least 3-4 yrs before your number comes up for an interview at AC, God knows how old you’d be then. Remember there’s 30 yr old pilots at AC today with 5+ YOS, sooo think about it. Ultimately if you can put at least 25 yrs in AC then yeah by all means go, if not I’d advise AC maybe too late for you unless schedule and quality of life doesn’t matter to you so long your in a shinny jet. Good luck.

[flyingcanuck]

I just wanted to input and disagree with waiting 3-4 years at jazz. AC has already interviewed almost everyone who applied with a hire date in 17' and invites are going out for 18' and are moving quick. Yes they could stop or slow down but also at this rate they will run out of qualified candidates.

If you want YYC then don't come to Jazz, that base is losing flying for the time being. You could get YVR and commute though after prob 6 months. If base is flexible then you could be left seat in YYZ in under a year or less.

Id still say go to LCC, they aren't going under in less than 3 years and you'll be at AC by then. Plus the pay at jazz especially starting is terrible.

Just my 2c.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Just look at the pay scale. Should make the decision very easy.

[altiplano]

Better pay, better type rating, get the base you want?

Easy choice.

Fly your bag off, maybe get a quick upgrade, you'll be competitive at AC.

[iflygirl_92]

Stay away from Jazz. All that's left there are senior pilots, pilots waiting for AC call 4-5 years? and No ATPL pilots that would normally be at a 703-704 operator at better pay.
They don't care about their pilots well being or lifestyle.
spent $80000 on your CPL? here make $42 k and btw we will take half off your pay in deductions....good luck paying your rent in YYZ YUL YVR oh you want to commute? that's fine that will be an extra $300-400 a month and don't forget your crash pad $600-700 a month?

and oh yeah....you're going to work 16-18 days a month
...Forgot to mention you wanna become a DEC?
The success rate is less than 5%. Most people are washed out and restricted from being captain for three years after failing or like that one cocky DEC former instructor who got fired.

NO TO JAZZ

[link821]

Interviews are currently in spring of 2019. Go to lynx.

[Transition9er2]

I’m an ex Jazz guy turned AC. Here’s my thoughts.

I was a strong advocate of the the Jazz route however my opinion has changed recently. As most reply’s have outlined, there’s serious issues with flow, pay and now a YYC base reduction.

When you compare Jazz to the ULCC from a base perspective, Jazz is seriously reducing YYC while your ULCC is growing in YYC.

Pay - no comparison, ULCC is more right out of the gate… still LOW for the job we’re doing but easily more than Jazz.

Jazz Flow… simply put, it’s an absolute mess. Min requirement from a Jazz perspective is 2000hrs, ATPL AND 2 yrs spent at Jazz (unless this last piece has changed). As some posters mentioned, senior Jazz pilots will not flow, the bottom end of the list is made up of college or low time who likely want to flow but don’t meet the mins (means a huge list ahead of you to get an interview as time goes on). Jazz is quickly getting to a point where they simply have too few pilots to manage the flying and AC will move away from Jazz and onto ULCCs (as an example) to meet their hiring needs.

It’s really unfortunate, Jazz was/is a fantastic company to work for, I honestly had a “mostly” positive experience there. However given the current climate in the industry and (I’m assuming) your desire to be YYC base, I feel this is an easy decision to make. Go to your ULCC and POTENTIALLY plan to send your resume to AC within 8-14 months where you could very likely be in a position to be getting called back.

Keep trying to seek out as much info as you can, it’ll help you make a decision that suits you best!

Feel free to PM if you have any more questions. Happy to help where I can.

Good luck!

[flying4dollars]

Hey Guys,

I am 2000+ 703 captain with ATPL right now. I want to hear your opinion on my career path.
I have a choice to make whether to go to Jazz or ULCC set up in YYC. I’ve been talking to many pilots in the industry and older pilots who have been in the industry for a while tend to tell me to go to Jazz for its flow agreement to AC and stability.

Younger people say to skip the regional and go to the 737 job and then I can go to AC a couple years later. Jazz flow hasn’t been what it used to be and AC has no plan to catch up with 60% quota and my opinion is they will continue to not honour it in 2023. I tend to agree with my peers and it might be better to have 737 type rating now even if the company goes under in few years. With the type rating and experience under my belt I can go easily to AC or other airlines. I have personally seen pilots going to places like Cargojet or Flair and going to AC after 6 months stint there in 2022.
My reservation on going to ULCC is I want to consider older pilots’ wisdom in this matter. Also this strong hiring trend can die down next year due to recession.

Pros of joining Jazz would be:
1. Possible flow to AC later
2. Possible quick upgrade to captain then better pay
3. Travel benefit

Cons of joining Jazz:
1. Low pay 42k
2. Uncertain future on the AC flow
3. Not sure which base or equipment I will get

Pros of joining ULCC (LXXX air):
1. Better initial pay 57k
2. Better equipment (737) and confirmed base (YYC)
3. Relatively higher seniority with more growth in 2023

Cons of ULCC:
1. Uncertainty and no long term stability
2. No travel benefit

My ultimate career goal would be going to the U.S (I have no green card). If I can’t make it to the U.S. I want to end up in AC.
I’m aware Jazz is a good company to work for. I’m trying to avoid a situation where I quit Jazz during my ground school and going to another company as I want to protect my reputation. I want to hear from you guys on what you think as I can’t really decide and my choice changes every hour. Thank you in advance.

Why not consider Flair over Lynx? YYC base opens April, more established, more aircraft with more routes and variety, relatively quick upgrade to captain, new TA on the horizon (not the greatest for FO's but better than Lynx, Jazz, Swoop, AC, WJ etc but TBD depending on TA vote). Gives you the option of moving to AC down the road or even staying put at Flair if you're happy. Lynx to me is the biggest risk right now. I've heard some very questionable things from people who work for them and left as a result.

Just food for thought. A career at Jazz is really no more stable right now than anyone else, including ULCC's. My humble opinion, take everything anyone says on here with a grain of salt. Good luck to you.

[rudder]

Stay away from Jazz. All that's left there are senior pilots, pilots waiting for AC call 4-5 years? and No ATPL pilots that would normally be at a 703-704 operator at better pay.
They don't care about their pilots well being or lifestyle.
spent $80000 on your CPL? here make $42 k and btw we will take half off your pay in deductions....good luck paying your rent in YYZ YUL YVR oh you want to commute? that's fine that will be an extra $300-400 a month and don't forget your crash pad $600-700 a month?

and oh yeah....you're going to work 16-18 days a month
...Forgot to mention you wanna become a DEC?
The success rate is less than 5%. Most people are washed out and restricted from being captain for three years after failing or like that one cocky DEC former instructor who got fired.

NO TO JAZZ

Sadly, most of this is accurate.

Make good choices.

[need1500rule]

Hey Guys,

I am 2000+ 703 captain with ATPL right now. I want to hear your opinion on my career path.
I have a choice to make whether to go to Jazz or ULCC set up in YYC. I’ve been talking to many pilots in the industry and older pilots who have been in the industry for a while tend to tell me to go to Jazz for its flow agreement to AC and stability.

Younger people say to skip the regional and go to the 737 job and then I can go to AC a couple years later. Jazz flow hasn’t been what it used to be and AC has no plan to catch up with 60% quota and my opinion is they will continue to not honour it in 2023. I tend to agree with my peers and it might be better to have 737 type rating now even if the company goes under in few years. With the type rating and experience under my belt I can go easily to AC or other airlines. I have personally seen pilots going to places like Cargojet or Flair and going to AC after 6 months stint there in 2022.
My reservation on going to ULCC is I want to consider older pilots’ wisdom in this matter. Also this strong hiring trend can die down next year due to recession.

Pros of joining Jazz would be:
1. Possible flow to AC later
2. Possible quick upgrade to captain then better pay
3. Travel benefit

Cons of joining Jazz:
1. Low pay 42k
2. Uncertain future on the AC flow
3. Not sure which base or equipment I will get

Pros of joining ULCC (LXXX air):
1. Better initial pay 57k
2. Better equipment (737) and confirmed base (YYC)
3. Relatively higher seniority with more growth in 2023

Cons of ULCC:
1. Uncertainty and no long term stability
2. No travel benefit

My ultimate career goal would be going to the U.S (I have no green card). If I can’t make it to the U.S. I want to end up in AC.
I’m aware Jazz is a good company to work for. I’m trying to avoid a situation where I quit Jazz during my ground school and going to another company as I want to protect my reputation. I want to hear from you guys on what you think as I can’t really decide and my choice changes every hour. Thank you in advance.

Why not consider Flair over Lynx? YYC base opens April, more established, more aircraft with more routes and variety, relatively quick upgrade to captain, new TA on the horizon (not the greatest for FO's but better than Lynx, Jazz, Swoop, AC, WJ etc but TBD depending on TA vote). Gives you the option of moving to AC down the road or even staying put at Flair if you're happy. Lynx to me is the biggest risk right now. I've heard some very questionable things from people who work for them and left as a result.

Just food for thought. A career at Jazz is really no more stable right now than anyone else, including ULCC's. My humble opinion, take everything anyone says on here with a grain of salt. Good luck to you.

Flair PFO'd me earlier this year. I know a lot of people in my experience level has been PFO'd as well. From what the interviewers told me they just need rapid upgrade FOs or DECs at the moment. Even if I was hired by them I'd be in a hiring pool a while. Seeing Lynx just opened up, I have to assume they will last at least a couple years or being bought by a competitor.

[iflygirl_92]

You're better off staying where you are until you get some more time or until they improve the contract at Jazz it's not a destination it's a trap. They lied and pressured the pilot group to make a quick and rash decision on a long contract now it's gonna blow up in their face
i'd stay away from the flames.
The less applicants at Jazz, the more pressure on management to increase wages.
Far better options even at a 704 operation. Don't be a fool. Stay away from Jazz.

# boycottJazz

[canadian_aviator_4]

#boycottJazz

[flyer 1492]

+1