Overtime

[Fanblade]

Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON.

Alkaseltzer,

That was directed at you and I. And he is right.

Change is coming in 2023. It will take time but your junior peers will fix the mess we have left behind

[schnitzel2k3]

You’re such a wiener. You joined and went through it too didn’t you? — were things any better? Didn’t you line up like a cow to get slaughtered too? Let people make their decision and thank your captains for selling out the industry. AC has been the major reason why Canadian aviation sucks so much but for many it’s always going to be a goal to fly for the national carrier. In case you haven’t noticed we don’t have much options here.

You mispelled winner.

I said no years back, one of the very few industry 'martyrs' on this site, but I watched many a colleague make the same choice, that was yes to AC, and them complain endlessly over beers about their decision.

I listened to the internal routing, as there were always loopholes, to help them navigate the trials and tribulations of AC as a new hire...

And yeah for someone not blinded by 'flying the flag', I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would agree to support AC at their current hiring package. That may change, but right now, I'm embarrassed for everyone who says yes.

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

Are you high?

I did NOT take a job at AC. I continue to find my path outside of Big Red, and while my pathway is less certain than the rubber stamp career of an AC pilot, I have found enjoyment in not knowing which unique opportunity I'll be apart of in 5, 10 or 25 years.

[Vanguard]

You mispelled winner.

I said no years back, one of the very few industry 'martyrs' on this site, but I watched many a colleague make the same choice, that was yes to AC, and them complain endlessly over beers about their decision.

I listened to the internal routing, as there were always loopholes, to help them navigate the trials and tribulations of AC as a new hire...

And yeah for someone not blinded by 'flying the flag', I'm still scratching my head as to why someone would agree to support AC at their current hiring package. That may change, but right now, I'm embarrassed for everyone who says yes.

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

Are you high?

I did NOT take a job at AC. I continue to find my path outside of Big Red, and while my pathway is less certain than the rubber stamp career of an AC pilot, I have found enjoyment in not knowing which unique opportunity I'll be apart of in 5, 10 or 25 years.

My point exactly. How can you sit on the outside and comment on something you can't comprehend? The first 4 years at AC suck. The senior pilots acknowledge it, the junior pilots are fighting to change it. Things may possibly get better but you're looking at 4 yrs and saying Air Canada is shit but missing out on everything else that scopes a full career. Progression, opportunity, experience and diversity of flying.

I also don't work for AC however I am not going here on their forum shitting on pilots wanting to have a career here. You can go troll somewhere else - clearly you are so happy with your choice of career.

[schnitzel2k3]

You're definitely an idiot and typical troll hypocrite. I did it but if anyone else does it - its embarrassing. Go get a life outside work you wiener. If it was okay for you to accept the shit package - you made your decision. Who are you to go shit on other peoples decisions? Anyone not AC is also embarrassed as you all stand there high and mighty acting like you're the best when you also are not. THANK YOU for holding all of Canada back into accepting shit WAWCON. If anything WestJet pilots will actually steer this industry out of this with their negotiations.

If people want to line up at AC nothing you say is going to change it.

Are you high?

I did NOT take a job at AC. I continue to find my path outside of Big Red, and while my pathway is less certain than the rubber stamp career of an AC pilot, I have found enjoyment in not knowing which unique opportunity I'll be apart of in 5, 10 or 25 years.

My point exactly. How can you sit on the outside and comment on something you can't comprehend? The first 4 years at AC suck. The senior pilots acknowledge it, the junior pilots are fighting to change it. Things may possibly get better but you're looking at 4 yrs and saying Air Canada is shit but missing out on everything else that scopes a full career. Progression, opportunity, experience and diversity of flying.

I also don't work for AC however I am not going here on their forum shitting on pilots wanting to have a career here. You can go troll somewhere else - clearly you are so happy with your choice of career.

I'll be honest, you made zero sense earlier; just a bunch of name calling, then referring to me as a hypocrite, which would insinuate that I was an AC pilot who went through flat pay, shitting on new hires...

I can absolutely comment on the decisions of people who post publicly about struggling with making ends meet, when they accepted an opportunity that quite literally is throttling salary and conditions in the rest of our industry. AC blames everyone else, when the problem is everyone else had to compete UNDER AC's 10 year guaranteed cost structure.

Thank god they (the pilot group) said no a few months ago. That would've been another sucker hole of brutal hidden concessions down the line affecting negots in 2024.

Vanny, it's not trolling when it's the truth brother.

[JoeyBarton]

Simply because seniority rules at AC Ash, its the FOMO. 'If I don't do it now, and piss on the industry, I'll miss 1000 spots, and be on reserve until I'm 64'.

You will always find guys too that will honestly tell you that, had they said yes in 2012, would be #2200 out of 4500 working 12 days a month for 250k while spending 30% of their air time napping, laughing their ass off as a WB FO.
Heck just ask jazz q4 skippers out of yyc who proudly said no in 2015 to the pml how they feel now about their flying getting slashed with no control over it 8 years later.
In all honesty, is it perfect? No. But yes it is the best gig in the country. The nature of the game hasn't changed in decades, it is a race to get in. Simple as that.
Still some Qatar captains or 20 year Cathay's showing up #4500...But anybody in his right mind by looking at fleet outlooks in 2018-2019 MD&A's knows the company will need to aim at 5500-6000 pilots in the next 3-5 years timeline. Junior captain spots usually sit at 75% of the list...You do the math.
Again, is the salary at where it should be? No
But has it been the best gig for the last 20 years? Probably has..It's like investing in ETFs tracking the S&P or the TSX over 30 years. Does it look like a home run right off the bat? Probably not. Will you be looking at your portfolio down the road in 30 years asking yourself if it was the right move? Absolutely will.

In real estate, in your marriage, in your career choice with regards to AC you need to take a long term outlook. Those who do, live happily, simply, and will retire (sooner) as such. Modern life isn't always about immediate happiness.

[schnitzel2k3]

Simply because seniority rules at AC Ash, its the FOMO. 'If I don't do it now, and piss on the industry, I'll miss 1000 spots, and be on reserve until I'm 64'.

I can definitely agree with your assessment Joey. I wish, wish, wish Air Canada didn't influence the rest of the industry as heavily as it does. There would be a lot less reason for shade to be thrown.

I have always hoped for the pilot group as a whole to improve their conditions, not just for themselves, but also for everyone else.

It's just hard, like you say, when highly experienced pilots decide to agree to the current conditions, thereby validating AC managements position that a highly experienced pilot can be paid those wages, and there is no shortage of experience or any reasoning to improve conditions because the end justifies the means...

If there were more flight crew who could stand back and say, this needs work, instead of saying I'll be back to even in like 7-10 years things might get done faster. But alas, here we are.

[unionism101]

As much as you can blame Air Canada the company for poor pay - it was up to the representation by the pilot's "union" to fight for improving the "top end" of the industry

Their failure has been a catalyst of the abysmal pay for the entire industry

Burning down ACPA cannot happen soon enough

[PostmasterGeneral]

Cringe worthy.

You and I (our generation) are responsible for the sorry state of our contract. And you think you have the moral high ground to tell someone junior that if they don’t like it, there’s the door?

All you are really doing is flipping the bird at the junior demographic and absolving yourself of any responsibility for the sorry state new hires now have to live through. It is much worse now than when we were hired.

You just made yourself the poster child of everything the bottom half of the list loathes.

Good work.

This is probably the most well articulated, intelligent post I’ve ever read on AvCanada. Well said!

[braaap Braap]

You're eager and interested in taking a job that will not allow you to pay your bills and people are falling all over each other to defend this thinking?!?!? This is one of the saddest most %$#@ed up threads I've seen on here. I get the hustle of trying to get in and get that seniority number knowing the pay is crap but the future is brighter but when you're talking about not even making ends meet and still gunning for it, that's %$#@ed up.

[Instructor_Mike]

Judging by this thread I'd say don't rely on overtime. If you don't think you can afford it then don't go to AC. Sunwing's contract set them up as the best paid 737 pilots in Canada. Their top scale pay beats even AC on the 737 (if only by a couple dollars per credit hour). They also have no flat pay.

Sunwing FOs start at $66 1st year and $82 year 2. I'm not a Sunwing pilot but I've seen their pay scales. It's not something that should be ignored though I know nothing about any other part of their contract, conditions, etc.