Suggestions for CPL and MEIFR training.

Servisair · Post by **Servisair** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:01 am

I am almost finished the training for the PPL and Im going to start the night rating after I finish. Im trying to find out what would be the best route to go after the night rating. Should I start the commercial training first or the Multi and instrument rating before the commercial?

Miss Mae · Post by **Miss Mae** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:41 am

In the longrun it really won't make a difference how you go about it....but in my instructor opinion..it would probably be best to wait until the completion of your commercial for the IFR. You require 50 PIC cross country to hold the rating anyways, and you will have a better instrument knowledge base by that time.

EatSleepFly · Post by **EatSleepFly** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:52 am

I disagree with the above post, being a flight instructor for years, the best way to do it is get your multi-ifr within your commercial, once you hit your 50PIC x/c stop flying solo until you have your instrument rating done, then build the rest of your commercial PIC time flying in the cloud, that's how I did it, and ended up with 25hrs ACTUAL instrument time when I finished my commercial license... also you SAVE a lot of money because all the time contributes towards your commercial!

~ESF

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:02 pm

If you do a time line it's best to do the multi IFR prior to your commercial. It will save you about 50 hours of flying after your commercial. Sit down with a smart instructor and do the math. most colleges do it that way now and finnish with 225 hours instead of the usual 260 hours

EatSleepFly · Post by **EatSleepFly** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:41 pm

I got my commercial multi-ifr, and even a seaplane rating in 202hours... hehe

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:25 pm

I got my multi in 2.7 hours dual wooppii shit

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:39 pm

Take your PPL, and go to the Peg, apply for a ramp job NOW(perimeter), 2mrw start working on the ramp, continue working on your CPL, and then complete your multi-ifr with Perimeter.

And by the time you're done you'll be first in line for a right seat job..

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:47 am

cyyz hit it.

start thinking ahead NOW.

save $ do your ifr within your cpl... but only if you want to look for an ifr job right away... which is very hard when you have 200 hrs... if you think you'll be looking for a dock job or a vfr job do your multi and wait on the ifr... it will probably expire anyway.

skyundertow · Post by **skyundertow** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:54 pm

I don't know ESF, I see the validity in Miss Mae's point. It might seem to save you $ since the time is counted towards your CPL, but how likely is it that you will use it right away with only 200hrs? I agree with Altiplano - think ahead and if you won't be using your MIFR right away, don't bother since you will have to spend more $ to renew later. Plus when you have more time and experience, it should cost you less to do the training anyways. Besides, even if you manage to find an FO job with 200hrs, taking a right seat job with 200tt could be your biggest regret later on because:

1. You won't have much PIC time and could be denied a capt upgrade
2. Co-joe time only counts as half if you plan on completing your ATPL

Don't shoot yourself in the foot for later!

Once you have your night rating, build some hours at night since most applicants for the ATPL are short on night hours. I must say that ESF's suggestion to build some actual IMC time is great. If you decide to do your IFR rating, make sure that your instructor will actually take you into cloud. Unfortunately there are some IFR instructors who don't have much IMC experience themselves.

EatSleepFly · Post by **EatSleepFly** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:34 pm

THe way the americans do it, is that you get your IFR rating right after your PPL.

There are a lot of benefits having an IFR rating irregardless if you're not going to use it immediately, and that is it makes your flying skills a lot better, after teaching ifr for years, i see a drastic improvement on people's flying skills.

I have also known people who haven't got jobs, because in this industry it's all about timing, most companies will not wait around for you, so having your ifr, shows you're prepared.

Irregardless if you'll use it immediately or not, having more qualifications never hurt, IF you're not uptight on cash.

all the best.

ESF

Kenny G · Post by **Kenny G** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:34 am

I think the above posts are missing the point. You are a student now. Easy to take time off work, easy to get student loans, and easy to study.
Later you will be working long hours, and many days a week. Will you really have time to finish your MIFR? Or get the 12G's that it takes to finish it? Will you want to study when you know you could be flying at your place of business? I have enough trouble getting time off work for a vacation; I can’t imagine how hard it would be to take time off from your job to train for another job.

Just my thoughts. I would like to hear your response.

skyundertow · Post by **skyundertow** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:43 pm

Ok, point taken - I went a bit off topic. I was kind of getting into a rant about all those FO's who complain about not having enough PIC time, plus I wanted to give a heads up about the existence of the ATPL (if he doesn't already know about it). Since most others were supporting the idea of 200hr-MIFR-wonder pilots, I was just trying to explain why its not the end of the world if you don't do your MIFR right away. It depends on your financial and living situation, and your future job plans (Have you thought of what you might do once you have your CPL?). Flying can be seasonal and I have seemed to find time to study in the winter months, but I guess it depends on what kind of work you get into.

Getting back to the original question...If you have the money and plan on looking for multi job fairly soon after the completion of your CPL, I would do the MIFR before the CPL. The dual training you receive from your MIFR will count towards the required 35hrs dual and 20hrs instrument for the CPL anyways, and the IFR training will also help you for your CPL flight test. So essentially, by doing the MIFR first, you are also preparing for your CPL. However, I would first finish your night rating as you mentioned. Plus, while building up time, why don't you go on a longer flight than just the 300nm CPL requirement, since you need x-country time anyways.

At what exact point in # of hours should you start the MIFR, I don't know...Maybe 100hrs-130hrs (If you finish your PPL in ~55hrs, then add another ~15hrs for the night rating and some more time flying around taking your family and friends on flights and doing some x-country trips). Does anyone have other thoughts on the exact starting point for the MIFR, if doing it while training for the CPL? (Personally, I'd like to say at least 500hrs! Hahaha! But that's just my opinion. More pic time could help you get out of the right seat sooner. Plus if you do it when you have more time/experience it shouldn't cost you 12Gs or take as long to complete).

As mentioned, jobs in the industry can be all about timing. Although I warned about the importance/usefulness of PIC time (even on a single-engine aircraft), it takes much less time to renew than to do your initial MIFR. If you want to be prepared for that multi job, go ahead and do your MIFR while training for your CPL. You can't get the job if you don't have the qualifications.

Good luck with your training!

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:57 am

KennyG has a good point. '

Aand the IFR rating really does improve your general flying skills. It also drastically improves your radio skills. And, if withing 2 years, it doesn't get renewed by an employer, it's only about $1500 to get it renewed. And if you have been flying for that time, even if on ly VFR, you should only need a couple flights to get back up to speed.