I have multiple friends at porter, been there years. They are CONSTANTLY complaining about the schedule. Now some have recently upgraded to captain, and they are going through the whole senority struggle a second time. That's just how senority systems work, they are not recreating the wheel here. You telling people that they should expect anything different is the only thing here that is truly out of touch.. WJ is the only airline in Canada who offers a socialized bidding system, and it is truly awesome. And no, poter Q 400 pilots do not make the same as a WJ pilot... jesus.. what an outrageous and crazy statement. Obviously WJ mainline pay is really bad. But they make hugely more then porter Q pilots, and in afew months after negotiations. They will make again HUGELY more. While poter pay scales stay the same
A Porter Q fo on old pay and with a family health plan was taking home 1600 per paycheque. I have seen the paystubs. Westjet FO after wsp and all deductions is reported on here multiple times as 1300 and 1700 for the two pays a month. I also have multiple friends there for years. They barely had reserve as an FO and now as a new ish captain they still mostly get the schedule they want.
Man.. your logic and bias is so flawed. Let me explain.
1. You are comparing a senior porter to a junior OTS FO at WJ mainline.
2. You are comparing the poters FULL pay check to the WJ mainline pilots pay stub AFTER deductions (which is probably 30 %) which that money is put into a investment and cash match system. It's not lost, its actually atleast doubling, but it doesnt get reflected on the pay stub.
3. Wj Pay is broken down to two pay stubs a HIGH pay stub (includes OT, premium, DH pay, MOA pay increaes, among other pay increases). And A LOW pay stub ( which is JUST base salary with WSP deductions).
If you saw how much those WJ pilots were making behind the scenes in WSP investments, along with if you could see their HIGH pay stub. You would immediately retract your statements. WJ mainline pilots like to make their situation seem worse tben it is.
Again comparing their wage to the Industry standard, it's a total joke they make peanuts... but comparing porter FO payscale to WJ mainline pay scales is actually laughable and you should really get that idea out of your head cause it's totally wrong. And again. WJ mainline pay will be COMPLETELY overhauled in afew months, while porters stays the same
Nothing pays the bills like non liquid investments!
Get off avcan Alexis, Porter definetly has issues but they’re nowhere near as bad as WJ
A Porter Q fo on old pay and with a family health plan was taking home 1600 per paycheque. I have seen the paystubs. Westjet FO after wsp and all deductions is reported on here multiple times as 1300 and 1700 for the two pays a month. I also have multiple friends there for years. They barely had reserve as an FO and now as a new ish captain they still mostly get the schedule they want.
Man.. your logic and bias is so flawed. Let me explain.
1. You are comparing a senior porter to a junior OTS FO at WJ mainline.
2. You are comparing the poters FULL pay check to the WJ mainline pilots pay stub AFTER deductions (which is probably 30 %) which that money is put into a investment and cash match system. It's not lost, its actually atleast doubling, but it doesnt get reflected on the pay stub.
3. Wj Pay is broken down to two pay stubs a HIGH pay stub (includes OT, premium, DH pay, MOA pay increaes, among other pay increases). And A LOW pay stub ( which is JUST base salary with WSP deductions).
If you saw how much those WJ pilots were making behind the scenes in WSP investments, along with if you could see their HIGH pay stub. You would immediately retract your statements. WJ mainline pilots like to make their situation seem worse tben it is.
Again comparing their wage to the Industry standard, it's a total joke they make peanuts... but comparing porter FO payscale to WJ mainline pay scales is actually laughable and you should really get that idea out of your head cause it's totally wrong. And again. WJ mainline pay will be COMPLETELY overhauled in afew months, while porters stays the same
Nothing pays the bills like non liquid investments!
Get off avcan Alexis, Porter definetly has issues but they’re nowhere near as bad as WJ
Lol, I appreciate your humor. WJ has issues, NO JOKE. I'm just simply pointing out three main points. That are absolutely incontrovertibly true.
1. Encore pilots make way more then porter pilots.
2. We have a waaaaaaaay better sched.
3. WJ has been around for 27 years, we have the financial backing of a HUGLY wealthy company.. we fly bigger planes to better places, we can give a lot better career progression then porter.. simply put, we have more money and better metal.
I'm taking like a dick here just because I see so much hate for WJ, and so much love for poter. But those above details are the only things that should be important to new pilots choosing which airline to work with ( outside of base choice) obviously that's a huge one.
A Porter Q fo on old pay and with a family health plan was taking home 1600 per paycheque. I have seen the paystubs. Westjet FO after wsp and all deductions is reported on here multiple times as 1300 and 1700 for the two pays a month. I also have multiple friends there for years. They barely had reserve as an FO and now as a new ish captain they still mostly get the schedule they want.
Man.. your logic and bias is so flawed. Let me explain.
1. You are comparing a senior porter to a junior OTS FO at WJ mainline.
2. You are comparing the poters FULL pay check to the WJ mainline pilots pay stub AFTER deductions (which is probably 30 %) which that money is put into a investment and cash match system. It's not lost, its actually atleast doubling, but it doesnt get reflected on the pay stub.
3. Wj Pay is broken down to two pay stubs a HIGH pay stub (includes OT, premium, DH pay, MOA pay increaes, among other pay increases). And A LOW pay stub ( which is JUST base salary with WSP deductions).
If you saw how much those WJ pilots were making behind the scenes in WSP investments, along with if you could see their HIGH pay stub. You would immediately retract your statements. WJ mainline pilots like to make their situation seem worse tben it is.
Again comparing their wage to the Industry standard, it's a total joke they make peanuts... but comparing porter FO payscale to WJ mainline pay scales is actually laughable and you should really get that idea out of your head cause it's totally wrong. And again. WJ mainline pay will be COMPLETELY overhauled in afew months, while porters stays the same
I am comparing year 1 pay to year 1 pay. I am comparing both after deductions. As for their pay being overhauled in a few months? I’ll believe it when I see it.
If you spent less time on av Canada and simply look at their starting hourly wage and MMG, a 2 year old can do the math and see that WJ mainline pilots make way more starting then a porter pilot. Do abit more research my friend. Not to mention if you flow to WJ from encore they give you a ripe payment, that matches your encore captain pay ( almost) as you transition to WJ mainline fo. So it's just simply not true what your saying there . And considering Enore just got a 35 % raise, we have to expect that WJ mainline will get a minimum of that. So yes, you will believe it. Cause it's literally happening as we speak
C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:26 am
Nothing says career progression like 12-15 year upgrade times and a flow agreement thats’s not being honoured.
Encore to captain upgrade is one year, its approx one year at swoop aswell. Wj mainline upgrade times are really bad (not as bad as your saying) but still very bad. That's one of the big things being worked on with the new contract. But if upgrading is what is important its extremely easy at both encore and swoop
Man.. your logic and bias is so flawed. Let me explain.
1. You are comparing a senior porter to a junior OTS FO at WJ mainline.
2. You are comparing the poters FULL pay check to the WJ mainline pilots pay stub AFTER deductions (which is probably 30 %) which that money is put into a investment and cash match system. It's not lost, its actually atleast doubling, but it doesnt get reflected on the pay stub.
3. Wj Pay is broken down to two pay stubs a HIGH pay stub (includes OT, premium, DH pay, MOA pay increaes, among other pay increases). And A LOW pay stub ( which is JUST base salary with WSP deductions).
If you saw how much those WJ pilots were making behind the scenes in WSP investments, along with if you could see their HIGH pay stub. You would immediately retract your statements. WJ mainline pilots like to make their situation seem worse tben it is.
Again comparing their wage to the Industry standard, it's a total joke they make peanuts... but comparing porter FO payscale to WJ mainline pay scales is actually laughable and you should really get that idea out of your head cause it's totally wrong. And again. WJ mainline pay will be COMPLETELY overhauled in afew months, while porters stays the same
I am comparing year 1 pay to year 1 pay. I am comparing both after deductions. As for their pay being overhauled in a few months? I’ll believe it when I see it.
If you spent less time on av Canada and simply look at their starting hourly wage and MMG, a 2 year old can do the math and see that WJ mainline pilots make way more starting then a porter pilot. Do abit more research my friend. Not to mention if you flow to WJ from encore they give you a ripe payment, that matches your encore captain pay ( almost) as you transition to WJ mainline fo. So it's just simply not true what your saying there . And considering Enore just got a 35 % raise, we have to expect that WJ mainline will get a minimum of that. So yes, you will believe it. Cause it's literally happening as we speak
I literally have the pay package from WJ mainline in front of me and as for 2 year old math, 1300+1700=3000 vs 1600+1600 is 3200 take home 737 mainline fo vs q400 fo.
I am comparing year 1 pay to year 1 pay. I am comparing both after deductions. As for their pay being overhauled in a few months? I’ll believe it when I see it.
If you spent less time on av Canada and simply look at their starting hourly wage and MMG, a 2 year old can do the math and see that WJ mainline pilots make way more starting then a porter pilot. Do abit more research my friend. Not to mention if you flow to WJ from encore they give you a ripe payment, that matches your encore captain pay ( almost) as you transition to WJ mainline fo. So it's just simply not true what your saying there . And considering Enore just got a 35 % raise, we have to expect that WJ mainline will get a minimum of that. So yes, you will believe it. Cause it's literally happening as we speak
I literally have the pay package from WJ mainline in front of me and as for 2 year old math, 1300+1700=3000 vs 1600+1600 is 3200 take home 737 mainline fo vs q400 fo.
Again my friend. Wj mainline pay is broken down in a complicated way. You holding and comparing ONE 2 week pay stub to another is not representative of the entire payroll system... you understand that right? Look at their hourly wage times it out by the MMG, and there is your answer. Those paystubs are totally meaningless
I know exactly how wj pay is broken doen. Its been explained multiple times and that 1300 and 1700 is always the answer to any thread on here about “first year take home” for westjet. Easy enough. The 1600 paystub from Porter was 0 OT, just normal flying for an FO after deductions. Yes hourly its different but what goes into your account is what matters to most. The fact that its even close is disgusting. What’s more is career progression. Tons available at Porter virtually none at WJ. 12 years to captain is not progression.
C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:51 am
I know exactly how wj pay is broken doen. Its been explained multiple times and that 1300 and 1700 is always the answer to any thread on here about “first year take home” for westjet. Easy enough. The 1600 paystub from Porter was 0 OT, just normal flying for an FO after deductions. Yes hourly its different but what goes into your account is what matters to most. The fact that its even close is disgusting. What’s more is career progression. Tons available at Porter virtually none at WJ. 12 years to captain is not progression.
But that's the whole thing.. the wages aren't even close.. you either just cant see it our wont see it.. I'm not sure which it is. What is year one q hourly rate and MMG with porter?
Tolip there’s some good information here you’re giving on both sides of the fence. But you lost me at ‘career progression’. WJ has the longest upgrades in North America if not the world. 11 years to hold YYZ and 15 years for YYC/YVR. Not to mention it’s around a 7 year wait to get off of reserve in YYC/YVR currently as a new FO. Things look to stagnate further as they are canceling new hire classes because it’s such a shit company to work for so no one is being hired.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:04 am
Tolip there’s some good information here you’re giving on both sides of the fence. But you lost me at ‘career progression’. WJ has the longest upgrades in North America if not the world. 11 years to hold YYZ and 15 years for YYC/YVR. Not to mention it’s around a 7 year wait to get off of reserve in YYC/YVR currently as a new FO. Things look to stagnate further as they are canceling new hire classes because it’s such a shit company to work for so no one is being hired.
And I 1000% agree with you there, the WJ mainline upgrade times are soooo bad. But remember this aswell, career progression with WJ is more then just westjet mainline. There is Encore, swoop, now sunwing. While I agree it's really bad at WJ mainline ( also remember that is one of the main focuses of current contract negotiations) the upgrade times at every other area of the company are as good if not better then other companies. 4 different companies, Q400, 737s, 787.. it still provides routes and metal that is vastly superior to an embraer.. that's all, I know there is lots to work on career progression wise. That new senority based reserve system with WJ mainline is totally CRAZY I dont think most people even understand how crazy that new system is. But I have to believe it will be voted away with the new contract. Because it hurts literally everyone
C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:26 am
Nothing says career progression like 12-15 year upgrade times and a flow agreement thats’s not being honoured.
Encore to captain upgrade is one year, its approx one year at swoop aswell. Wj mainline upgrade times are really bad (not as bad as your saying) but still very bad. That's one of the big things being worked on with the new contract. But if upgrading is what is important its extremely easy at both encore and swoop
Encore and swoop are both extremely irrelevant unless you’re trying to get to AC, in which case encore becomes relevant in a pilots life for a year or 2.
Swoop is the lowest paying 737 gig in the world and is a cancer that needs to die off and stop dragging wages down.
Unless you’re hellbent on living in YYC and never commuting westjet is pointless for any pilot in the industry right now. I get that seeing “all this love” for porter is triggering you to defend a turd of a company (because yes again, Porter is nowhere near perfect and it sounds like the pilot group knows it) but you can’t say that WJ is a better choice right now. Even if this expansion for porter goes downhill every pilot could go to AC and upgrade faster.
Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:04 am
Tolip there’s some good information here you’re giving on both sides of the fence. But you lost me at ‘career progression’. WJ has the longest upgrades in North America if not the world. 11 years to hold YYZ and 15 years for YYC/YVR. Not to mention it’s around a 7 year wait to get off of reserve in YYC/YVR currently as a new FO. Things look to stagnate further as they are canceling new hire classes because it’s such a shit company to work for so no one is being hired.
But remember this aswell, career progression with WJ is more than just westjet mainline. There is Encore, swoop, now sunwing.
C-GGGQ wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:26 am
Nothing says career progression like 12-15 year upgrade times and a flow agreement thats’s not being honoured.
Encore to captain upgrade is one year, its approx one year at swoop aswell. Wj mainline upgrade times are really bad (not as bad as your saying) but still very bad. That's one of the big things being worked on with the new contract. But if upgrading is what is important its extremely easy at both encore and swoop
Encore and swoop are both extremely irrelevant unless you’re trying to get to AC, in which case encore becomes relevant in a pilots life for a year or 2.
Swoop is the lowest paying 737 gig in the world and is a cancer that needs to die off and stop dragging wages down.
Unless you’re hellbent on living in YYC and never commuting westjet is pointless for any pilot in the industry right now. I get that seeing “all this love” for porter is triggering you to defend a turd of a company (because yes again, Porter is nowhere near perfect and it sounds like the pilot group knows it) but you can’t say that WJ is a better choice right now. Even if this expansion for porter goes downhill every pilot could go to AC and upgrade faster.
Why is encore irrelevant? They fly basically the exact same aircraft as porter but for better wages and are affiliated with and airline 10 times the size of porter.. not to mention again, encore has a vastly better sched. You can go off about a million different compaits about WJ. But at the end of the day WAWCON at encore is faaaaar better then at porter. As for career progression, there is much to be desired. But even still there are vastly greater routes bases and career paths for a WJ pilot VS a porter pilot. Those are just the facts. WJ is being really shitty. But like I said, contract negotiations are happening RN for WJ and swoop to fix all the issues you mentioned, and encore is in negotiations next year. When does porter start to negotiate for raises and flow to the jet and better working conditions? Oh yea... never
Encore to captain upgrade is one year, its approx one year at swoop aswell. Wj mainline upgrade times are really bad (not as bad as your saying) but still very bad. That's one of the big things being worked on with the new contract. But if upgrading is what is important its extremely easy at both encore and swoop
Encore and swoop are both extremely irrelevant unless you’re trying to get to AC, in which case encore becomes relevant in a pilots life for a year or 2.
Swoop is the lowest paying 737 gig in the world and is a cancer that needs to die off and stop dragging wages down.
Unless you’re hellbent on living in YYC and never commuting westjet is pointless for any pilot in the industry right now. I get that seeing “all this love” for porter is triggering you to defend a turd of a company (because yes again, Porter is nowhere near perfect and it sounds like the pilot group knows it) but you can’t say that WJ is a better choice right now. Even if this expansion for porter goes downhill every pilot could go to AC and upgrade faster.
Why is encore irrelevant? They fly basically the exact same aircraft as porter but for better wages and are affiliated with and airline 10 times the size of porter.. not to mention again, encore has a vastly better sched. You can go off about a million different compaits about WJ. But at the end of the day WAWCON at encore is faaaaar better then at porter. As for career progression, there is much to be desired. But even still there are vastly greater routes bases and career paths for a WJ pilot VS a porter pilot. Those are just the facts. WJ is being really shitty. But like I said, contract negotiations are happening RN for WJ and swoop to fix all the issues you mentioned, and encore is in negotiations next year. When does porter start to negotiate for raises and flow to the jet and better working conditions? Oh yea... never
Literally yearly. They just did last month. Every year their pilot reps sit down with management and adjust wages based on competitors. As of next year they will include WJ mainline in their benchmarking not just encore.
Encore and swoop are both extremely irrelevant unless you’re trying to get to AC, in which case encore becomes relevant in a pilots life for a year or 2.
Swoop is the lowest paying 737 gig in the world and is a cancer that needs to die off and stop dragging wages down.
Unless you’re hellbent on living in YYC and never commuting westjet is pointless for any pilot in the industry right now. I get that seeing “all this love” for porter is triggering you to defend a turd of a company (because yes again, Porter is nowhere near perfect and it sounds like the pilot group knows it) but you can’t say that WJ is a better choice right now. Even if this expansion for porter goes downhill every pilot could go to AC and upgrade faster.
Why is encore irrelevant? They fly basically the exact same aircraft as porter but for better wages and are affiliated with and airline 10 times the size of porter.. not to mention again, encore has a vastly better sched. You can go off about a million different compaits about WJ. But at the end of the day WAWCON at encore is faaaaar better then at porter. As for career progression, there is much to be desired. But even still there are vastly greater routes bases and career paths for a WJ pilot VS a porter pilot. Those are just the facts. WJ is being really shitty. But like I said, contract negotiations are happening RN for WJ and swoop to fix all the issues you mentioned, and encore is in negotiations next year. When does porter start to negotiate for raises and flow to the jet and better working conditions? Oh yea... never
Literally yearly. They just did last month. Every year their pilot reps sit down with management and adjust wages based on competitors. As of next year they will include WJ mainline in their benchmarking not just encore.
Then why does a starting encore FO make almost 15 K more then at porter?
Encore and swoop are both extremely irrelevant unless you’re trying to get to AC, in which case encore becomes relevant in a pilots life for a year or 2.
Swoop is the lowest paying 737 gig in the world and is a cancer that needs to die off and stop dragging wages down.
Unless you’re hellbent on living in YYC and never commuting westjet is pointless for any pilot in the industry right now. I get that seeing “all this love” for porter is triggering you to defend a turd of a company (because yes again, Porter is nowhere near perfect and it sounds like the pilot group knows it) but you can’t say that WJ is a better choice right now. Even if this expansion for porter goes downhill every pilot could go to AC and upgrade faster.
Why is encore irrelevant? They fly basically the exact same aircraft as porter but for better wages and are affiliated with and airline 10 times the size of porter.. not to mention again, encore has a vastly better sched. You can go off about a million different compaits about WJ. But at the end of the day WAWCON at encore is faaaaar better then at porter. As for career progression, there is much to be desired. But even still there are vastly greater routes bases and career paths for a WJ pilot VS a porter pilot. Those are just the facts. WJ is being really shitty. But like I said, contract negotiations are happening RN for WJ and swoop to fix all the issues you mentioned, and encore is in negotiations next year. When does porter start to negotiate for raises and flow to the jet and better working conditions? Oh yea... never
Literally yearly. They just did last month. Every year their pilot reps sit down with management and adjust wages based on competitors. As of next year they will include WJ mainline in their benchmarking not just encore.
Year one encore 40 makes just shy of 57k yearly gross salary. Tbat doesn't include perdium, or OT, or WSP contribution, or stat pay. What is the BASE wage for a year one porter FO? Tbe most recent pay scale I saw was 50 $ per hour with I think 80 mmg?
Why is encore irrelevant? They fly basically the exact same aircraft as porter but for better wages and are affiliated with and airline 10 times the size of porter.. not to mention again, encore has a vastly better sched. You can go off about a million different compaits about WJ. But at the end of the day WAWCON at encore is faaaaar better then at porter. As for career progression, there is much to be desired. But even still there are vastly greater routes bases and career paths for a WJ pilot VS a porter pilot. Those are just the facts. WJ is being really shitty. But like I said, contract negotiations are happening RN for WJ and swoop to fix all the issues you mentioned, and encore is in negotiations next year. When does porter start to negotiate for raises and flow to the jet and better working conditions? Oh yea... never
Literally yearly. They just did last month. Every year their pilot reps sit down with management and adjust wages based on competitors. As of next year they will include WJ mainline in their benchmarking not just encore.
Year one encore 40 makes just shy of 57k yearly gross salary. Tbat doesn't include perdium, or OT, or WSP contribution, or stat pay. What is the BASE wage for a year one porter FO? Tbe most recent pay scale I saw was 50 $ per hour with I think 80 mmg?
So why are pilots leaving encore in droves if it’s so great to work there?
Literally yearly. They just did last month. Every year their pilot reps sit down with management and adjust wages based on competitors. As of next year they will include WJ mainline in their benchmarking not just encore.
Year one encore 40 makes just shy of 57k yearly gross salary. Tbat doesn't include perdium, or OT, or WSP contribution, or stat pay. What is the BASE wage for a year one porter FO? Tbe most recent pay scale I saw was 50 $ per hour with I think 80 mmg?
So why are pilots leaving encore in droves if it’s so great to work there?
Because the Toronto encore base is closing and they dont want to move. The reasons for pilots leaving at WJ mainline are very different to encore
Encore to captain upgrade is one year, its approx one year at swoop aswell. Wj mainline upgrade times are really bad (not as bad as your saying) but still very bad. That's one of the big things being worked on with the new contract. But if upgrading is what is important its extremely easy at both encore and swoop
Encore and swoop are both extremely irrelevant unless you’re trying to get to AC, in which case encore becomes relevant in a pilots life for a year or 2.
Swoop is the lowest paying 737 gig in the world and is a cancer that needs to die off and stop dragging wages down.
Unless you’re hellbent on living in YYC and never commuting westjet is pointless for any pilot in the industry right now. I get that seeing “all this love” for porter is triggering you to defend a turd of a company (because yes again, Porter is nowhere near perfect and it sounds like the pilot group knows it) but you can’t say that WJ is a better choice right now. Even if this expansion for porter goes downhill every pilot could go to AC and upgrade faster.
Why is encore irrelevant? They fly basically the exact same aircraft as porter but for better wages and are affiliated with and airline 10 times the size of porter.. not to mention again, encore has a vastly better sched. You can go off about a million different compaits about WJ. But at the end of the day WAWCON at encore is faaaaar better then at porter. As for career progression, there is much to be desired. But even still there are vastly greater routes bases and career paths for a WJ pilot VS a porter pilot. Those are just the facts. WJ is being really shitty. But like I said, contract negotiations are happening RN for WJ and swoop to fix all the issues you mentioned, and encore is in negotiations next year. When does porter start to negotiate for raises and flow to the jet and better working conditions? Oh yea... never
The FOAG committee meets regularly to address issues regarding pay, flow and QOL. Saying “never” is very ignorant of you. Pay benchmarking is run at least once a year to keep competitive pay across the board for similar aircraft operations. We don’t need to wait for negotiations, it happens on its own, constantly.
