A sinking ship?

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Bil Derberg
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A sinking ship?

Post by Bil Derberg »

I am planning on moving on to the airlines, from the rumor going around, it seems that SW are desperately short of pilots. With 2500hrs + under my belt, would it be wise to apply at sunwing at this point, knowing the recent events that have been taking place and that its a slowly sinking ship? or take my chances with FLR, AC,WJ and CJ?

Appreciated.
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northernpilot2
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by northernpilot2 »

Apply to all. If you get multiple offers, pick the one you want. Once you accept, stick around for a while. Don't accept and leave after 2 months. Think about future employment. Don't burn bridges.
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ads-b
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by ads-b »

A sinking ship? Should I go there? We’ll be fine without you.
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daedalusx
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by daedalusx »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That used to be something an expat Emirates T7 captain would ponder ... should I go back to Canada on one of these airlines where I could probably upgrade within couple of years or should I grind another 5 in the sandbox and be mortgage free.

Now we have astronauts with 0 airline experience who thinks they’re too good for a 738 TR because they have 2500 hours under their belt.

Regardless of the merger (which will not really affect junior pilots anyways) happening or not, it’s still a good lifestyle with a pay that will somewhat afford you to pay rent. For FO it’s arguably better than Swoop, Jazz, Porter and most likely better job stability long term than Transat. CJ is better money and widebody time but the schedule/lifestyle can be brutal to some. Flair will probably get you a quicker upgrade ... maybe. That’s also high risk depending on if they’re able to do their rapid expansion.
If you can go to AC, go to AC but they’re still tons of 5000+ hrs jet drivers OTS waiting for their call so it might take a while with your experience.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by YC87DRVR »

ads-b wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:03 am A sinking ship? Should I go there? We’ll be fine without you.
Ummm I wouldn’t be so sure, sure you only want drivers who are excited to come to Sunwing. But judging from the way the season has gone so far, the bad press and the last minute cancellation of many routes from smaller heading markets south, you are not doing fine already.
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DanWEC
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by DanWEC »

While not specifically regarding Sunwing, I firmly believe no established pilot group in Canada would be liquidated and on the street if their business tanks. The qualified pilot shortage has gone too deep, and drivers are in perpetual demand. If the company fails to have ongoing viability the pilots, slots, possibly equipment etc will be absorbed into someone else. The market capacity is there. The only exceptions could be the newest and smallest, aka Lynx or Jetlines.
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Joeschumer
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by Joeschumer »

I don't know why any pilot would look at media and pax complaints when looking for a job. According to pax every Canadian airline is about 2/5 stars. :rolleyes: Remember the WJ and AC disaster of the their just past busy summer season when every single day for months flights were canceled or mass delayed? Well guess what, Sunwings busy season is the winter, ramps up right before Christmas and this year that also aligned with severe weather + airport disasters. Sunwing suffers from a lot of media coverage because of their cliental and specific operation, they always have.

- Average pax on SWG rarely flies, once a year or less.
- 96%+ are booked on a vacation package with restricted timelines at different stages.
- Most pax on SWG expect the world for their all-inclusive package, and from experience the less a pax pays the more they expect.
- Difficulty arranging anything in "Caribbean time", which is close to 100% of Sunwings destinations.
- From the beginning of Sunwings existence they have been short staffed in the winter because they are overstaffed in the summer with their model, its even worse this year in ALL departments.

It has always been like that minus an important detail, flight ops mismanagement.

A lot of Sunwings flight ops management was replaced and shuffled around during COVID, the mistakes that lead to this past disaster stretch to at least 1 year ago. I wont list the mistakes but the list is long. They could have mitigated and minimized disruptions this past December but they really did this to themselves, it was of no surprise to most pilots working at Sunwing. That said, the sales have been record breaking, loads are continually averaging 95%+, hotels are full, the money is great. There is no business problem, its specifically a flight ops management problem. The hope is WJ will help SWG with their flight ops problems. Upgrades here are still 4000-5000+ hours, recent upgrade bid result was the same.

The cancelations of the smaller routes are to create space in the network, when the January bid came out they simply did not have the crews to staff them, I believe there were over 100 open flights, no reserve. Cut the least profitable routes and operate the profitable its as simple as that. WJ and AC did the exact same thing in the months following their mass disruptions this past summer. July and August combined I believe there were 20,000 flight cancelations between the two. Sunwing has canceled less than 100 in December and January.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by YC87DRVR »

Joeschumer wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:29 pm I don't know why any pilot would look at media and pax complaints when looking for a job. According to pax every Canadian airline is about 2/5 stars. :rolleyes: Remember the WJ and AC disaster of the their just past busy summer season when every single day for months flights were canceled or mass delayed? Well guess what, Sunwings busy season is the winter, ramps up right before Christmas and this year that also aligned with severe weather + airport disasters. Sunwing suffers from a lot of media coverage because of their cliental and specific operation, they always have.

- Average pax on SWG rarely flies, once a year or less.
- 96%+ are booked on a vacation package with restricted timelines at different stages.
- Most pax on SWG expect the world for their all-inclusive package, and from experience the less a pax pays the more they expect.
- Difficulty arranging anything in "Caribbean time", which is close to 100% of Sunwings destinations.
- From the beginning of Sunwings existence they have been short staffed in the winter because they are overstaffed in the summer with their model, its even worse this year in ALL departments.

It has always been like that minus an important detail, flight ops mismanagement.

A lot of Sunwings flight ops management was replaced and shuffled around during COVID, the mistakes that lead to this past disaster stretch to at least 1 year ago. I wont list the mistakes but the list is long. They could have mitigated and minimized disruptions this past December but they really did this to themselves, it was of no surprise to most pilots working at Sunwing. That said, the sales have been record breaking, loads are continually averaging 95%+, hotels are full, the money is great. There is no business problem, its specifically a flight ops management problem. The hope is WJ will help SWG with their flight ops problems. Upgrades here are still 4000-5000+ hours, recent upgrade bid result was the same.

The cancelations of the smaller routes are to create space in the network, when the January bid came out they simply did not have the crews to staff them, I believe there were over 100 open flights, no reserve. Cut the least profitable routes and operate the profitable its as simple as that. WJ and AC did the exact same thing in the months following their mass disruptions this past summer. July and August combined I believe there were 20,000 flight cancelations between the two. Sunwing has canceled less than 100 in December and January.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9416140/sunw ... perations/
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co-joe
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by co-joe »

I understand where you're coming from, if you honestly think Sunwing is a sinking ship, then no you shouldn't apply for a job there. The stage you are at in your career is one where you know you need 705 jet experience to move forward.

My advise is to go to a company you will be happy at, even if your dream job never calls. Personally I like all the airlines on your list. If you go to Sunwing, I think you'll find you like north south flying, with overnights in warm places, no east west jet lag. I think you'll find yourself praying that the WestJet mothership doesn't mess with that part of the business. But a job today at Sunwing, is a job tomorrow at WestJet. Or it may be a job tomorrow at WestJet Swoop. Nobody knows.

If you want lifestyle and to be home every night for the rest of your career look at Flair. If you have that widebody itch that you absolutely have to scratch then Cargojet but likely they want jet experience as international flying in a wide body is another level of challenge. Of course apply to AC, just to cover your bases for the future.
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mmm...bacon
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by mmm...bacon »

I think the most important consideration for OP - given his posts in the covid whackadoodle forum - is if Sunwing have a vax mandate?
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702pipeliner
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by 702pipeliner »

Don't forget his post in hire me. It's super important that he letd everyone know his heart will not explode.
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Bil Derberg
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by Bil Derberg »

702pipeliner wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:02 pm Don't forget his post in hire me. It's super important that he letd everyone know his heart will not explode.
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/the- ... ly-tacitly

.....Must be climate change and gas stoves...
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DanWEC
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by DanWEC »

Man, an interesting statistic there on your hire-me post... I get being anti-vax, I really do, but for me it's freedom of choice and the frightening ability for the government to impose on one's body.
However, I also observe data.
To quote a 98.6% survival likelihood juxtaposed to a 0.004%- 0.007% instance of myocarditis (Study after study after study, globally) isn't really the best risk assessment. Putting it on your ad really looks like it's your hill to die on.

Goddamn it why is this thread about covid now? 🤡 Let's get back on track, bashing companies before applying to them...
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702pipeliner
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by 702pipeliner »

Bil Derberg wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:04 pm
702pipeliner wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:02 pm Don't forget his post in hire me. It's super important that he letd everyone know his heart will not explode.
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/the- ... ly-tacitly

.....Must be climate change and gas stoves...
Hmmm this explains why when I went for my EKG last month the doctor said I was good to go and no changes.
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NovaBoy
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by NovaBoy »

The flying public have short memories, once this winter season is over, Sunwing will once again fill up the reservation book with Canadians looking for a cheap holiday down south.
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TG
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by TG »

702pipeliner wrote: Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:02 pm Don't forget his post in hire me. It's super important that he letd everyone know his heart will not explode.
:lol:
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Canpilot7
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Re: A sinking ship?

Post by Canpilot7 »

How many hours per year would a junior yyz FO expect to fly? I know for some of the other bases it can vary quite a bit depending on the flying they get, but curious about yyz.
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