Number of commercial pilot licences issued in Canada has collapsed since 2019

[airway]

An engineering grad starts at a six figure salary.

Most people don't have sufficient skill or intellgencee to get a degree in engineering.

True. But that is mildly pedantic.

Let’s make it an electrical or plumbing apprentice instead. Or how about a Hydro lineman?

This is from INDEED

Apprentice electrician salary in Alberta
How much does an Apprentice Electrician make in Alberta?
Average base salary
$25.02 Per hour
same as national average
The average salary for a apprentice electrician is $25.02 per hour in Alberta. 708 salaries reported, updated at January 18, 2023.

That is $52,000 a year, full time.
A ramp job would be minimum wage, say $15/hour or $31,200 a year.

What is the average salary for a first full time flying job these days?






.

[digits_]

At least as a pilot even if you're significantly below median in terms of skill and ability, if you stick it out long enough you'll still get a decent salary. It's the ultimate zero-risk job.

Depends on your definition of zero risk... Perhaps once you find that first job you're sort of started on that trajectory, but a lot can still go wrong. Never mind the commutes or moves you'll have to make to get the decent jobs.

I would say there are plenty of other jobs/careers that offer more 'guarantee' to lead to that decent salary.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I met a guy a few years ago. He was in his early Fifties and his resume was basically the failed airlines in Canada in the last 30 years. Money wise he did OK when he was working but most of the money he saved in his retirement account was used to support him between jobs.

He was too old to start over but the personal costs of a lifetime of an emotional roller coaster of living the dream to no job again and again made him wish he had chosen another line of work.

[photofly]

At least as a pilot even if you're significantly below median in terms of skill and ability, if you stick it out long enough you'll still get a decent salary. It's the ultimate zero-risk job.

Depends on your definition of zero risk... Perhaps once you find that first job you're sort of started on that trajectory, but a lot can still go wrong.

Zero risk in the sense that your personal skills and competence at flying an airplane have nothing to do with your success. If you're a lawyer or an engineer, and you want to get to $$$$, you have actually got to be good at your job. If you're a lineman or a plumber and you want to get to $$$, you had better plan on moving into management (and you had better be good at that, too.)

Pilot? Ride the escalator to the top.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Zero risk in the sense that your personal skills and competence at flying an airplane have nothing to do with your success. If you're a lawyer or an engineer, and you want to get to $$$$, you have actually got to be good at your job. If you're a lineman or a plumber and you want to get to $$$, you had better plan on moving into management (and you had better be good at that, too.)

Pilot? Ride the escalator to the top.

That's fairly accurate. If you're not a good engineer or plumber you'll quickly find yourself without a job. Many firms are quick to let you go if you don't perform to standards. With that being said, experience will teach you that even engineering will become a repetitive job, though not as repetitive as a pilot. Say you're an automation engineer specializing in automated spot welding robots. Well, every project will be different, but "not really that different". It's hard to explain. Even engineers figure out their niche and stick it out till retirement. My parents' friend is an engineer for a company here in Ontario that has been designing conveyor belts since the early 90s. She's been with the company for more than 25 years and is about to retire... doing the same thing...

I think what you're describing with "pilots" is the unionized airline pilot that gets their number and rides it to retirement, so long as they hold their medical and pass their sims / checks, etc. There are many that never aspire beyond flying right seat. They're comfortable, don't like the responsibility and enjoy relatively good schedules and compensation.

If you're a pilot for a private individual or a small corporate outfit, you may find yourself without a job if you "step the wrong way" (socially I mean). Also you may be pressured into positions that you may not want. It depends on the job, not so much the career.

[digits_]

At least as a pilot even if you're significantly below median in terms of skill and ability, if you stick it out long enough you'll still get a decent salary. It's the ultimate zero-risk job.

Depends on your definition of zero risk... Perhaps once you find that first job you're sort of started on that trajectory, but a lot can still go wrong.

Zero risk in the sense that your personal skills and competence at flying an airplane have nothing to do with your success. If you're a lawyer or an engineer, and you want to get to $$$$, you have actually got to be good at your job. If you're a lineman or a plumber and you want to get to $$$, you had better plan on moving into management (and you had better be good at that, too.)

Pilot? Ride the escalator to the top.

Depends. I am sure there are plenty of subpar lawyers and engineers. Smooth talking and interviewing is much more important than actual job skills unfortunately.

Pilots still need a certain level of competence to pass PPCs. Engineers need a similar relative level of competency to pass interviews and technical assessments.

[photofly]

\
Depends. I am sure there are plenty of subpar lawyers and engineers. Smooth talking and interviewing is much more important than actual job skills unfortunately.

At least smooth talking and interviewing counts as a skill, and (supposing you're right) then a skill that advances you ahead of your peers. There's no way to get ahead of your peers at an airline - by being good at anything at all. Nor is there any way to fall behind them by being bad at anything.

Pilots still need a certain level of competence to pass PPCs. Engineers need a similar relative level of competency to pass interviews and technical assessments.

A PPC is nothing at all like a real annual performance review or an interview in front of a promotions board. If you fail a PPC the airline will bend over backwards to get you to pass it. At which point, all is forgiven. For a pilot there is no concept of an individual performance bonus, or any kind of performance target. Nobody gets put on a personal improvement plan. The unions wouldn't hear of it.

I'm not saying this is bad; but one thing pilots don't have to concern themselves with at the start of their 705 employment is competing with their colleagues for promotion or advancement. That's quite different from almost every other adequately-paying job. Getting head of the competition is (allegedly) all that newly-qualified lawyers can think about.

[digits_]

I think you are comparing a subgroup of pilots to another sub group of non pilots to make that comparison work.

It's a nice conversation starter but I would say that if you compare a random pilot to a random engineer or lawyer, it would not hold up in the majority of the cases.

[photofly]

I think you are comparing a subgroup of pilots to another sub group of non pilots to make that comparison work.

It's a nice conversation starter but I would say that if you compare a random pilot to a random engineer or lawyer, it would not hold up in the majority of the cases.

I know a lot of lawyers, and they are all super-competitive about promomtion, job titles, and salaries. They routinely leave one firm for another to get a salary bump or a bigger office. Graduate engineers perhaps less so, but professional competence is a big thing in advancement.

Pilots on the other hand do everything they can to avoid leaving their 705 of choice because if they go to a different airline they're right back at square one. No credit for 15, 20, 25 years post-qualification experience. But for as long as they don't land gear-up, if they stick it out, their advancement is assured.

Again, being a professional pilot is a very strange career structure, and it has much more in common with unionized jobs like shop-floor manufacturing, than "engineer" or "lawyer".

[Rooster69]

If you are a subpar lawyer, you can probably get hired on at a pilot union.

[RoAF-Mig21]

If you are a subpar lawyer, you can probably get hired on at a pilot union.

HA! That got me chuckling.