CBC - A shortage of pilots is making travel chaos in Canada even worse

[genetic jack hammer]

.

[DanWEC]

So are any of you going to contact CBC or the journalist to relay all these points? Or just keep bitching about it on Avcanada?

I did.

[genetic jack hammer]

So are any of you going to contact CBC or the journalist to relay all these points? Or just keep bitching about it on Avcanada?

I do believe that Capt Tim Perry, ALPA Canada President was interviewed by CTV about this.There's a screen shot, on the Alpa Canada Instagram page, with Tim talking to a reporter. To quote Tim "no airline that compensates their pilots properly need to go outside of the country to hire temporary foreign pilots". It's a step in the right direction.

[Tbayer2021]

So are any of you going to contact CBC or the journalist to relay all these points? Or just keep bitching about it on Avcanada?

I did.

Wonderful! I'd love to read what you wrote. Could also help others that may want to send something but don't quite know what to write. I'd also love to read any reply you may get from them.

[rigpiggy]

So are any of you going to contact CBC or the journalist to relay all these points? Or just keep bitching about it on Avcanada?

I did, how much you want to get there is no change of new story(also added the apc forum wage page.

[rigpiggy]

The pilot shortage is caused by the fact that pay is garbage. Air Canada has flat pay for the first 3 years starts at about 50k a year. This is after you spend around 100k for your licensing then 3-5 years to build up hours at even less. Add to that working from 16-18 days a month doing 12-14 hr days, with no fixed schedule(reserve), the travel benefits are worthless, and now with a defined contribution pension that the airline likes to invest in itself just before declaring bankruptcy, that is pretty much worthless too. Good luck getting a raise as the government continually legislated us back to work with terms that always favours the airlines. The USA is paying incredible dollars(2nd yr first officer making as much as a westjet 787 captain) I make as a 2nd year FO Q400 more than a 12 yr Jazz captain. if the USA open the doors expect a mass migration. Then most Canadian travellers might as well drive.

[currysonic]

This low licensing narrative is very dangerous. Because it’s simply not true, and works against our pilot unions work at parliament hill. The reporter failed to include TC’s note on pilot statistics:


* It should be noted that since March 2020, due to COVID, a number of exemptions have been issued extending pilot’s medical validity. Our licensing system calculates these statistics based on pilots holding valid medicals. Since pilots may be using the exemptions to extend or renew their medical, our statistics will not accurately indicate the true number of valid pilot licences in Canada for the year 2020 and 2021.

Source https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/licens ... statistics

By the same statistic, the total population of ATPLs fell by 90%. I’m sure you all know that’s not true.

I can tell you now, as a flying instructor in 2020/21, schools are packed through the pandemic and 2022 as well from my old connections in flight training.

[rigpiggy]

ALPA Canada Rejects Misleading Pilot-Supply Claims Made by Major Canadian Airline


OTTAWA, ONT.—Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) Canada president Capt. Tim Perry issued the following statement today, rejecting Sunwing Airlines’ claims that a lack of pilot supply and inability to hire 63 foreign pilots through the Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW) program are the reasons for its recent flight disruptions and cancellations.

“The issue of pilot supply has been used as an excuse by certain airline management groups to undermine collective bargaining rights and labour standards, and to deflect from other mismanagement of labour resources. Simply put, you can’t sell more tickets than you can expect to honour.

“ALPA is deeply concerned this excuse is being used by employers in Canada, such as Sunwing Airlines, seeking to hire temporary foreign pilots instead of bargaining fair collective agreements to fill the vacancies in Canada’s flight decks.

“Unfortunately, the labour challenges in Canada’s aviation sector, including recruitment issues for northern and regional airlines, are largely due to new discount airlines coming into the marketplace with a ton of new capacity and drawing upon the existing pilot supply. These airlines typically try to reduce costs by focusing on offering only entry-level pilot positions, which historically are not attractive enough to be long-term career jobs. This creates a revolving door whereby airlines are constantly training new-hire pilots rather than relying upon them to operate revenue flights.

“It is fair to say that we are looking at a tight labour market, especially at the entry levels of this industry, and that we need to train more pilots for the future. This means working together to make our profession more accessible, affordable, and attractive. We need to remove barriers to entry for all demographics and manage things so we can continue to offer a stable air traffic system for all Canadians. At the airline level, however, we don’t have a pilot supply problem; it’s an issue of attraction and retention. Furthermore, Canadian airlines that compensate their pilots appropriately don’t need to hire TFWs.”

Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest airline pilot union, representing over 67,000 pilots at 39 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at www.alpa.org or follow us on Twitter @ALPAPilots.



###

ALPA Canada rejette les allégations trompeuses d'une grande compagnie aérienne canadienne concernant le nombre de pilotes
OTTAWA, ONTARIO - Le commandant Tim Perry, président d'Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l (ALPA) Canada, a émis la déclaration suivante aujourd'hui, rejetant les allégations de Sunwing Airlines selon lesquelles le manque de pilotes et l'incapacité d'embaucher 63 pilotes étrangers dans le cadre du programme des travailleurs étrangers temporaires (TET) sont les raisons des récentes perturbations et annulations de vols.

"La question de l'offre de pilotes a été utilisée comme une excuse par certains groupes de gestion de compagnies aériennes pour saper les droits de négociation collective et les normes du travail, et pour détourner l'attention d'autres cas de mauvaise gestion des ressources humaines. En termes simples, on ne peut pas vendre plus de billets que ce que l'on peut espérer honorer.

" L'ALPA est profondément préoccupée par le fait que cette excuse est utilisée par des employeurs au Canada, comme Sunwing Airlines, qui cherchent à embaucher des pilotes étrangers temporaires au lieu de négocier des conventions collectives équitables pour combler les postes vacants dans les postes de pilotage au Canada.

"Malheureusement, les problèmes de main-d'œuvre dans le secteur de l'aviation au Canada, y compris les problèmes de recrutement pour les compagnies aériennes nordiques et régionales, sont en grande partie dus aux nouvelles compagnies aériennes à rabais qui arrivent sur le marché avec une tonne de nouvelles capacités et qui puisent dans l'offre existante de pilotes. Ces compagnies aériennes tentent généralement de réduire les coûts en se concentrant sur l'offre de postes de pilotes de premier échelon, qui, historiquement, ne sont pas assez attrayants pour constituer des emplois de carrière à long terme. Cela crée une porte tournante où les compagnies aériennes doivent constamment former les pilotes nouvellement embauchés plutôt que de compter sur eux pour assurer des vols payants.

"Il est juste de dire que le marché du travail est tendu, en particulier aux niveaux d'entrée de cette industrie, et que nous devons former davantage de pilotes pour l'avenir. Cela signifie que nous devons travailler ensemble pour rendre notre profession plus accessible, plus abordable et plus attrayante. Nous devons éliminer les obstacles à l'entrée pour tous les groupes démographiques et gérer les choses de manière à pouvoir continuer à offrir un système de circulation aérienne stable à tous les Canadiens. Au niveau des compagnies aériennes, cependant, nous n'avons pas de problème de pénurie de pilotes ; c'est un problème d'attraction et de rétention. De plus, les compagnies aériennes canadiennes qui rémunèrent convenablement leurs pilotes n'ont pas besoin d'embaucher des TET."

Fondée en 1931, l'ALPA est le plus grand syndicat de pilotes de ligne au monde, représentant plus de 67 000 pilotes dans 39 compagnies aériennes aux États-Unis et au Canada. Visitez le site Web de l'ALPA à l'adresse www.alpa.org ou suivez-nous sur Twitter @ALPAPilots.


###
Air Line Pilots Association, International
www.alpa.org

Please click here if you would like to unsubscribe from this mailing.

[BigQ]

Blaming the new carriers? That's pretty rich, no? We all know that the new duty regs introduced in 2020 make airlines have to have up to 30% more pilots on their rosters just to fly the same amount of flights. Not a problem when airlines operate at 50% capacity, but with demand surging back to 90-110%, it was always going to cause shortages.

Nobody will admit it, but there is a price to safety.

[rigpiggy]

So did anybody get a call/note back from the ceeb?.............I'm hearing crickets. Another shell game from you local state sponsored propaganda machine

[goldeneagle]

So did anybody get a call/note back from the ceeb?.............I'm hearing crickets. Another shell game from you local state sponsored propaganda machine

Not surprising they dont respond to somebody that cant spell CBC...

[DanWEC]

I did. The author is planning on writing further on the topic and let me know he'd reach out again when the time comes.

[Arnie Pye]

The pay structure in our industry needs to be overhauled.

Talk to anyone in any other industry and they wouldn't believe that airline employees only get paid brakes off to brakes on. Everything we do prior to departure and after pulling up to the gate is free.
That hour you report for work before departure, FREE. The one hour turn around between legs, FREE. If you do a 4 sector, minimum credit day, you are spending as much or more time working for the company FOR FREE than you are working paid hours.

You can't just look at the pay scale and say "wow, this captain gets $120/hour. What's he complaining about?" He's probably actually only bringing in $60/hour for the hours that he actually works. That puts him in line with most plumbers.

[pelmet]

The pilot shortage is caused by the fact that pay is garbage. Air Canada has flat pay for the first 3 years starts at about 50k a year. This is after you spend around 100k for your licensing then 3-5 years to build up hours at even less. Add to that working from 16-18 days a month doing 12-14 hr days, with no fixed schedule(reserve), the travel benefits are worthless, and now with a defined contribution pension that the airline likes to invest in itself just before declaring bankruptcy, that is pretty much worthless too. Good luck getting a raise as the government continually legislated us back to work with terms that always favours the airlines. The USA is paying incredible dollars(2nd yr first officer making as much as a westjet 787 captain) I make as a 2nd year FO Q400 more than a 12 yr Jazz captain. if the USA open the doors expect a mass migration. Then most Canadian travellers might as well drive.

They say the reason is that the pay is not as good as the US but......the US has a shortage too. So maybe there is another reason.

It might help if schedules were better.

[schnitzel2k3]

They say the reason is that the pay is not as good as the US but......the US has a shortage too. So maybe there is another reason.

It might help if schedules were better.

The barriers to entry, years of high competition, low ROI, while other career sectors significantly out performed aviation in both stability, wages and lifestyle. I think tech is typically a very high 5 to mid 6 figure to start with insane future job prospects. Considering Air Canada is still paying mid 5s to start while typically requiring on average 8 years of industry experience doesn't bode well for really 'selling' aviation.

Things will eventually stabilize, especially with manufacturers attempting to undercut safety protocols in the name of customer profit.

[Ash Ketchum]

They say the reason is that the pay is not as good as the US but......the US has a shortage too. So maybe there is another reason.

It might help if schedules were better.

The barriers to entry, years of high competition, low ROI, while other career sectors significantly out performed aviation in both stability, wages and lifestyle. I think tech is typically a very high 5 to mid 6 figure to start with insane future job prospects. Considering Air Canada is still paying mid 5s to start while typically requiring on average 8 years of industry experience doesn't bode well for really 'selling' aviation.

Things will eventually stabilize, especially with manufacturers attempting to undercut safety protocols in the name of customer profit.

Agreed, I made more in terms of gross and net salary 10 years ago as a new grad software developer fresh out of university than I do flying a 200 passenger jet for a major airline today. I also didn't have to spend 100 k on my training. I am thinking that pilot pay in Canada will increase significantly for experienced pilots just as it has in the US . We just need one airline to give in and all the others will have to follow.

[Blueontop]

They say the reason is that the pay is not as good as the US but......the US has a shortage too. So maybe there is another reason.

It might help if schedules were better.

The barriers to entry, years of high competition, low ROI, while other career sectors significantly out performed aviation in both stability, wages and lifestyle. I think tech is typically a very high 5 to mid 6 figure to start with insane future job prospects. Considering Air Canada is still paying mid 5s to start while typically requiring on average 8 years of industry experience doesn't bode well for really 'selling' aviation.

Things will eventually stabilize, especially with manufacturers attempting to undercut safety protocols in the name of customer profit.

Agreed, I made more in terms of gross and net salary 10 years ago as a new grad software developer fresh out of university than I do flying a 200 passenger jet for a major airline today. I also didn't have to spend 100 k on my training. I am thinking that pilot pay in Canada will increase significantly for experienced pilots just as it has in the US . We just need one airline to give in and all the others will have to follow.

Unless they are all colluding to keep the floodgates of higher wages from breaking? I would really not be surprised and in fact am predisposed to thinking this is true in some capacity. There was another thread on this that didn’t get much traction which did surprise me.

[Ash Ketchum]

The barriers to entry, years of high competition, low ROI, while other career sectors significantly out performed aviation in both stability, wages and lifestyle. I think tech is typically a very high 5 to mid 6 figure to start with insane future job prospects. Considering Air Canada is still paying mid 5s to start while typically requiring on average 8 years of industry experience doesn't bode well for really 'selling' aviation.

Things will eventually stabilize, especially with manufacturers attempting to undercut safety protocols in the name of customer profit.

Agreed, I made more in terms of gross and net salary 10 years ago as a new grad software developer fresh out of university than I do flying a 200 passenger jet for a major airline today. I also didn't have to spend 100 k on my training. I am thinking that pilot pay in Canada will increase significantly for experienced pilots just as it has in the US . We just need one airline to give in and all the others will have to follow.

Unless they are all colluding to keep the floodgates of higher wages from breaking? I would really not be surprised and in fact am predisposed to thinking this is true in some capacity. There was another thread on this that didn’t get much traction which did surprise me.

The reality is that there are less experienced pilots than jobs in this country so all it takes is one airline to raise pay and the others will struggle to attract talent. Simple supply and demand. That's why tech salaries are so high because companies are poaching experienced devs from each other and creating a bidding war.

[schnitzel2k3]

Agreed, I made more in terms of gross and net salary 10 years ago as a new grad software developer fresh out of university than I do flying a 200 passenger jet for a major airline today. I also didn't have to spend 100 k on my training. I am thinking that pilot pay in Canada will increase significantly for experienced pilots just as it has in the US . We just need one airline to give in and all the others will have to follow.

Unless they are all colluding to keep the floodgates of higher wages from breaking? I would really not be surprised and in fact am predisposed to thinking this is true in some capacity. There was another thread on this that didn’t get much traction which did surprise me.

The reality is that there are less experienced pilots than jobs in this country so all it takes is one airline to raise pay and the others will struggle to attract talent. Simple supply and demand. That's why tech salaries are so high because companies are poaching experienced devs from each other and creating a bidding war.

Canada is a country built on the idea of relying on monopolies (oligopoly) to provide industry security in a global marketplace. It sure protects our industries from international competition but it absolutely fries our competitive nature. One needn't look beyond telecom, food (particularly dairy), alcohol, air travel, utilities, fuel...etc.

Same goes for jobs.

I'm hopeful we start to see a fraction of competition like that of U.S flight crew wage growth. I tell you though, other than the necessary increase Porter recently provided, it feels like all the other operators are firmly holding that parking brake in place with both hands regarding wages, for fear of creating a nuclear WAWCON race.

That said, I think Porter has a significant cost advantage with the E2 model - as every other operator relies heavily on Boeing 737s and shares the same operating costs and markets. They'll likely be leading the push for an attractive package to keep those E2s staffed with that aggressive delivery sched (2 jets a month for 24 months?).

Everyone else is cutting their pennies in half to figure out how to keep the managerial packages growing, make a profit with the same jet their LCC or ULCC competitor is using, while also selling that 'industry competitive package' nonsense in South Africa.

[digits_]

The barriers to entry, years of high competition, low ROI, while other career sectors significantly out performed aviation in both stability, wages and lifestyle. I think tech is typically a very high 5 to mid 6 figure to start with insane future job prospects. Considering Air Canada is still paying mid 5s to start while typically requiring on average 8 years of industry experience doesn't bode well for really 'selling' aviation.

Things will eventually stabilize, especially with manufacturers attempting to undercut safety protocols in the name of customer profit.

Agreed, I made more in terms of gross and net salary 10 years ago as a new grad software developer fresh out of university than I do flying a 200 passenger jet for a major airline today. I also didn't have to spend 100 k on my training. I am thinking that pilot pay in Canada will increase significantly for experienced pilots just as it has in the US . We just need one airline to give in and all the others will have to follow.

Unless they are all colluding to keep the floodgates of higher wages from breaking? I would really not be surprised and in fact am predisposed to thinking this is true in some capacity. There was another thread on this that didn’t get much traction which did surprise me.

I think you might be right regarding the big airlines and their subcontractors. It's more likely smaller companies will start to improve conditions. It's a big issue for them if they can't crew all their 5 or 10 planes, and they can increase wages quite a bit before the bug airlines would get worried. Airlines won't worry too much yet about the local 703 medevac ops trying to crew their planes.

Until they have to start refunding tickets. That's when I expect the gentlemen agreements with other airlines will start to crumble.