Be Ready

[aerobod]

Just read Aerobods posts on other forums. The guy is a management (IT of all things) shill… no point in wasting your time. Pilots deserve minimum wage and nothing more according to him so that the company can prosper with shareholder/management profits.

I don't work in management at the moment or have any current airline vested interest other than being a WS retiree, I'm currently an independent consultant that specialises in IT, but have an Aerospace background and a couple of decades of airline experience combined with a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so you need to try a little harder in your research, as I've mentioned those things before.

I've never proposed low wages for pilots or any other employees for that matter, even if you go back to any old posts. All I present are the realities of airline ops financing (based on having the teams for Ops Research and Data Analytics, amongst other teams, in my group in the past), so you should go back and re-read some of those posts as opposed to coming to false conclusions. My posts tend to be analytically based backed up with opinions that are formed from solid facts, as opposed to the unsupported rhetoric that is common on the Internet in general.

[averageatbest]

I know it sucks that the company is asking for a ‘take one for the team’ approach[..]. The current situation just is what it is.

Based on the last comment of yours that I replied to, I still don't like your opinion.

[aerobod]

I know it sucks that the company is asking for a ‘take one for the team’ approach[..]. The current situation just is what it is.

Based on the last comment of yours that I replied to, I still don't like your opinion.

Not sure what your point is. Obviously our opinions are different, but only time will tell what the outcome will be.

I'm just an interested observer at this point, but it would be nice if the company survives and is successful for all involved, then I get to keep my retirement privileges as opposed to having to spend more money in buying tickets on other airlines.

[FL030]

I don't work in management at the moment or have any current airline vested interest other than being a WS retiree, I'm currently an independent consultant that specialises in IT, but have an Aerospace background and a couple of decades of airline experience combined with a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so you need to try a little harder in your research, as I've mentioned those things before.

I've never proposed low wages for pilots or any other employees for that matter, even if you go back to any old posts. All I present are the realities of airline ops financing (based on having the teams for Ops Research and Data Analytics, amongst other teams, in my group in the past), so you should go back and re-read some of those posts as opposed to coming to false conclusions. My posts tend to be analytically based backed up with opinions that are formed from solid facts, as opposed to the unsupported rhetoric that is common on the Internet in general.

How did humans go from the Greatest Generation to this

[aerobod]

I don't work in management at the moment or have any current airline vested interest other than being a WS retiree, I'm currently an independent consultant that specialises in IT, but have an Aerospace background and a couple of decades of airline experience combined with a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so you need to try a little harder in your research, as I've mentioned those things before.

I've never proposed low wages for pilots or any other employees for that matter, even if you go back to any old posts. All I present are the realities of airline ops financing (based on having the teams for Ops Research and Data Analytics, amongst other teams, in my group in the past), so you should go back and re-read some of those posts as opposed to coming to false conclusions. My posts tend to be analytically based backed up with opinions that are formed from solid facts, as opposed to the unsupported rhetoric that is common on the Internet in general.

How did humans go from the Greatest Generation to this

And your point is? Please try to back up your assertions with some good solid info, such as what and why you define something as "The Greatest Generation" and what you mean by "this".

[scabbydoo]

I don't work in management at the moment or have any current airline vested interest other than being a WS retiree, I'm currently an independent consultant that specialises in IT, but have an Aerospace background and a couple of decades of airline experience combined with a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so you need to try a little harder in your research, as I've mentioned those things before.

I've never proposed low wages for pilots or any other employees for that matter, even if you go back to any old posts. All I present are the realities of airline ops financing (based on having the teams for Ops Research and Data Analytics, amongst other teams, in my group in the past), so you should go back and re-read some of those posts as opposed to coming to false conclusions. My posts tend to be analytically based backed up with opinions that are formed from solid facts, as opposed to the unsupported rhetoric that is common on the Internet in general.

How did humans go from the Greatest Generation to this

And your point is? Please try to back up your assertions with some good solid info, such as what and why you define something as "The Greatest Generation" and what you mean by "this".

You know exactly what he means. You're pretty much alone here, bod.

[aerobod]

How did humans go from the Greatest Generation to this

And your point is? Please try to back up your assertions with some good solid info, such as what and why you define something as "The Greatest Generation" and what you mean by "this".

You know exactly what he means. You're pretty much alone here, bod.

As you can tell, I'm not too bothered about having a different viewpoint. It is always funny when someone can only produce an ad-hominem attack as opposed to forwarding a viewpoint that is on-topic and discusses the subject in a coherent manner.

[Transition9er2]

I don't work in management at the moment or have any current airline vested interest other than being a WS retiree, I'm currently an independent consultant that specialises in IT, but have an Aerospace background and a couple of decades of airline experience combined with a degree in Aeronautical Engineering, so you need to try a little harder in your research, as I've mentioned those things before.

I've never proposed low wages for pilots or any other employees for that matter, even if you go back to any old posts. All I present are the realities of airline ops financing (based on having the teams for Ops Research and Data Analytics, amongst other teams, in my group in the past), so you should go back and re-read some of those posts as opposed to coming to false conclusions. My posts tend to be analytically based backed up with opinions that are formed from solid facts, as opposed to the unsupported rhetoric that is common on the Internet in general.

How did humans go from the Greatest Generation to this

And your point is? Please try to back up your assertions with some good solid info, such as what and why you define something as "The Greatest Generation" and what you mean by "this".

Pretty sure everyone here knows exactly what he’s referring to.

Given this is an aviation themed forum, and specifically a WestJet pilot contract thread, you’d think one would know when to bow out of the conversation and simply be an observer considering they’re neither a WestJet employee nor a pilot.

Just saying.

[aerobod]

How did humans go from the Greatest Generation to this

And your point is? Please try to back up your assertions with some good solid info, such as what and why you define something as "The Greatest Generation" and what you mean by "this".

Pretty sure everyone here knows exactly what he’s referring to.

Given this is an aviation themed forum, and specifically a WestJet pilot contract thread, you’d think one would know when to bow out of the conversation and simply be an observer considering they’re neither a WestJet employee nor a pilot.

Just saying.

Point taken that many don't want to hear other points of view, but if you don't want public involvement from an ex-WS employee in my case with a lot of airline experience, best to go and have the discussion on a private forum somewhere. I'm sure things have changed somewhat since Covid, but in my pre-Covid days at WS and during my pitches at orientation, I never came across pilots who weren't willing to have civil discussions over any matter of interest.

[cloak]

Personal attacks usually come forward when posters cannot offer reasonable arguments. Employees of the same corporation obviously have a more vested interest in the success of the corporation and therefore offer more relevant viewpoints than others, even if they are pilots of other airlines who seem to be all too happy for WestJet to go on strike, indefinitely! Discuss the issues if you can, otherwise ostensibly being a pilot (of exactly what level or what airline) doesn't give you the right to bully other WestJetters out of discussion!

[braaap Braap]

Man you guys are pathetic. Aerobod comes here with data and analyzes it (all be it with a management bias) and because it doesnt support your pie in the sky rarara game you pull out the personal attacks. Either grab your own data and analysis to refute him, or continue beating the war drum and get the gains you feel you deserve, but at least do it respectfully and with decorum.

[cdnavater]

I know it sucks that the company is asking for a ‘take one for the team’ approach[..]. The current situation just is what it is.

Based on the last comment of yours that I replied to, I still don't like your opinion.

Not sure what your point is. Obviously our opinions are different, but only time will tell what the outcome will be.

I'm just an interested observer at this point, but it would be nice if the company survives and is successful for all involved, then I get to keep my retirement privileges as opposed to having to spend more money in buying tickets on other airlines.

Thing is, you do have a valuable opinion but you also have a vested interest, I think buying tickets on other airlines will bother you more than you let on.
You come across as a self serving even though you claim to be offering advice, I think most WJ pilots have weighed the risks associated with going on strike and the closer you are to retirement the less likely you will vote for that outcome but it is a democratic union and I believe the majority already spoke.
If you think your advice would be headed, it might be better directed to the MEC at this point but I’m guessing they have already received advice from the ALPA contracted experts.
Back in 2010, I used the words I’m prepared to burn this place(Jazz) to the ground, now, I’m fairly certain I would vote no, too old to start over but too young to retire.
I support WJ pilots with whatever they decide, I would like them to make huge gains, that’s my self serving wish, their gains would translate to my gains, hopefully.
A negotiated deal would be best for all involved but now is likely the best time in history to send a message, Flair pilots missed that opportunity!

[accountant]

Man you guys are pathetic. Aerobod comes here with data and analyzes it (all be it with a management bias) and because it doesnt support your pie in the sky rarara game you pull out the personal attacks. Either grab your own data and analysis to refute him, or continue beating the war drum and get the gains you feel you deserve, but at least do it respectfully and with decorum.

They won't, they feel they're entitled to make 2-3-4x more than teachers who raise the next generation (and their kids), paramedics who save lives on a daily basis, police, and firefighters, all because they captain a metal tube that mostly flies itself on autopilot.

If money to do flight school wasn't a barrier of entry to most, many of these pilots wouldn't be doing these jobs.

[accountant]

Based on the last comment of yours that I replied to, I still don't like your opinion.

Not sure what your point is. Obviously our opinions are different, but only time will tell what the outcome will be.

I'm just an interested observer at this point, but it would be nice if the company survives and is successful for all involved, then I get to keep my retirement privileges as opposed to having to spend more money in buying tickets on other airlines.

Thing is, you do have a valuable opinion but you also have a vested interest, I think buying tickets on other airlines will bother you more than you let on.
You come across as a self serving even though you claim to be offering advice, I think most WJ pilots have weighed the risks associated with going on strike and the closer you are to retirement the less likely you will vote for that outcome but it is a democratic union and I believe the majority already spoke.
If you think your advice would be headed, it might be better directed to the MEC at this point but I’m guessing they have already received advice from the ALPA contracted experts.
Back in 2010, I used the words I’m prepared to burn this place(Jazz) to the ground, now, I’m fairly certain I would vote no, too old to start over but too young to retire.
I support WJ pilots with whatever they decide, I would like them to make huge gains, that’s my self serving wish, their gains would translate to my gains, hopefully.
A negotiated deal would be best for all involved but now is likely the best time in history to send a message, Flair pilots missed that opportunity!

When have you ever seen a union (and not just management beholden MEC's) recommend against striking?

Unions make their dues based on contract increases. Even if it's a crap situation you rarely if ever see a union recommend against striking.

ALPA salaries are pretty enormous... no wonder they need the dues from massive contract increases....

https://www.unionfacts.com/employees/Air_Line_Pilots

[aerobod]

Based on the last comment of yours that I replied to, I still don't like your opinion.

Not sure what your point is. Obviously our opinions are different, but only time will tell what the outcome will be.

I'm just an interested observer at this point, but it would be nice if the company survives and is successful for all involved, then I get to keep my retirement privileges as opposed to having to spend more money in buying tickets on other airlines.

Thing is, you do have a valuable opinion but you also have a vested interest, I think buying tickets on other airlines will bother you more than you let on.
You come across as a self serving even though you claim to be offering advice, I think most WJ pilots have weighed the risks associated with going on strike and the closer you are to retirement the less likely you will vote for that outcome but it is a democratic union and I believe the majority already spoke.

I definitely have a self interest, as do many residents of Calgary and to a lesser degree other parts of Canada. Since I left WS in 2018 I've actually done about three-quarters of my flights on AC, though. I'd miss the connectivity of YYC if WS disappeared more than the additional cost of the flights, as we usually do 50% off confirmed instead of standby, anyway.

[accountant]

Man you guys are pathetic. Aerobod comes here with data and analyzes it (all be it with a management bias) and because it doesnt support your pie in the sky rarara game you pull out the personal attacks. Either grab your own data and analysis to refute him, or continue beating the war drum and get the gains you feel you deserve, but at least do it respectfully and with decorum.

They won't, they feel they're entitled to make 2-3-4x more than teachers who raise the next generation (and their kids), paramedics who save lives on a daily basis, police, and firefighters, all because they captain a metal tube that mostly flies itself on autopilot.

If money to do flight school wasn't a barrier of entry to most, many of these pilots wouldn't be doing these jobs.

The worst result a teacher could have is that a former student ends up living in their Moms basement till they're 30.

Cops aren't allowed to arrest anymore without consulting the diversity and cultural handbook.

Paramedics are too busy scraping the vomit out of the throats of overdosed drug users to help anyone that pays taxes.

Firefighters are almost redundant with the new firecodes requiring sprinklers and half a hundred smoke alarms in every building. When was the last time you saw them racing off to a real fire? By the time they do get to a real one, the occupants have been out making Smores for a half hour.

Above all, the most overpaid are accountants who are overcompensated bookkeepers that do nothing a properly programmed computer can't do 4x faster. Trust me, there's a program for everything you do.

Anything else?

Congrats, you've proven that since there's a program for everything you do, you don't need a raise.

[Dronepiper]

I would be interested to know exactly what the union is fighting for and what exactly the company offered up.

[Fanblade]

Hey WestJet pilots…..all you need to know is Air Canada pilots are rooting for you! We are going to be in the same boat this year. Time to have some pilot unity. Go get ‘em!

Thanks for the support. I really do appreciate it and I will be there for you when the time comes.

From another AC pilot and will take it one step further. Can I join your picket line?

[cloak]

It could be argued that not only its pilots, even Air Canada the corporation, not to mention Flair, Porter, Lynx, Jetlines, etc. are all firmly behind WestJet pilots to strike!

[Fanblade]

It could be argued that not only its pilots, even Air Canada the corporation, not to mention Flair, Porter, Lynx, Jetlines, etc. are all firmly behind WestJet pilots to strike!

Yeah right,

All I want is to support my peers.

I just finished reading the thread in full. All I can say is that Westjet pilots will have to get used to a few things.

No one has any respect for what you do anymore. No one thinks you deserve to make more than a bus driver. You will have zero sympathy from the public. Even people on this thread think planes basically fly themselves. The public is worse. You will have shill’s of all types telling you what a huge mistake you are undertaking. You will be labelled greedy and entitled.

With that all said. Stick to your guns. No one will hand you anything without a fight. Your a group that hasn’t experienced a strike before. People will see it as a weakness to build fear from. I will gladly join your picket line. Hope you reciprocate when it’s my turn.

I have been on strike twice. One two weeks and the other two months. Guess what happened. No one died. No company failed. If they let it get as far as strike, the company will likely be willing to wait past the first missed pay check to feel you out.

Avoid agreeing to arbitration at all cost. Prepare financially. Prepare mentally for the doom and gloom.

But in the end it will pass just like every other labor strife.