Recruiting Video

[smooth]

Good job WJ ALPA! Hope you guys will get a contract you both agree on

[Canadaflyer46]

According to the CEO on the townhall this week, this ALPA video is to blame for the canceled groundschools and lack of resumes. I guess it really struck a nerve with the execs! Great job ALPA.

[Mac08]

According to the CEO on the townhall this week, this ALPA video is to blame for the canceled groundschools and lack of resumes. I guess it really struck a nerve with the execs! Great job ALPA.

“Youtube video paralyzes Westjet hiring” would be a pretty comical news headline.

But hey, at least he said he didn’t get a pay raise this year!

[Curiousflyer]

I’m not sure what the case is at WJ but normally if you are going to change a training program it has to be approved by TC. I’d imagine changing a training program to accommodate 250 hour FO’s would be quite a big revision and not as easy as just dropping the experience requirement.

Aren't the training requirements that are being sent to transport the minimum hours? I've never heard about TC objecting to giving pilots more time for training.

Additionally, are minimum hiring standards defined in any of those documents? Never worked for a company where they were in TC approved documents.

Sort of a minimum, but also the entire process needs approval. So if WestJet wanted to officially lengthen the training footprint, that would require TC approval as training items would need to be moved around. However, WestJet could keep the current training footprint and simply acknowledge that a significant number of candidates will require additional training to complete the program.

[TomCruise]

Gday. I wanted to voice my (humble) opinion on this thread and say I fully back and commend the WJ reps for producing the previously posted video. They were simply the stating facts about their current conditions of employment and it speaks volumes. The entire industry has been sliding downhill for decades in terms of pay and conditions and now there is a pilot shortage go figure. The smart COE's and start ups will see opportunity and get ahead of this and pay more then the legacy carriers changing the landscape. It's true the seniority system works more to the benefit of airline managers than the pilots. It's like a bad marriage, if you want out you have to get a divorce and start over with less (forgive the metaphor). This is why we should support all our professional colleagues these days at WJ AC or ..... We shouldn't have to go through divorces to be treated better. Admittedly I stopped reading this thread around page 2 due some kind of ego battle so this could be out of context by now haha. But make no mistake, Airline management can be ruthless and nefarious when it suites them. Now is the time to take a stand together, industry wide.

Rant over and fly safe.

Captain Cruise

[cloak]

It is highly debatable how factually true the video was, but regardless it was made in poor taste and served no purpose other than to inflame the situation and undermine the negotiations. It lacked diplomacy and class. The fact that uninitiated anonymous posters cheer them on, is exactly the reason why it was those things! If gaining traction in negotiations continues to allude the pilots, perhaps it's time to put forward someone more in tune with company culture and more committed to its success than wanting to "burn the place down" which simply means they have to then surrender themselves to another company with another set of problems, at the bottom of their list no less!! As great as pilot professional comaraderie is, it has to be balanced against longevity with one's company since it provides the greater part of one's career progression. Until and unless that is changed and absent a national seniority system, with all due respect to other pilots and other companies, first and foremost, one must stay true to one's own company.

[TheAlcalde]

It is highly debatable how factually true the video was, but regardless it was made in poor taste and served no purpose other than to inflame the situation and undermine the negotiations. It lacked diplomacy and class. The fact that uninitiated anonymous posters cheer them on, is exactly the reason why it was those things! If gaining traction in negotiations continues to allude the pilots, perhaps it's time to put forward someone more in tune with company culture and more committed to its success than wanting to "burn the place down" which simply means they have to then surrender themselves to another company with another set of problems, at the bottom of their list no less!! As great as pilot professional comaraderie is, it has to be balanced against longevity with one's company since it provides the greater part of one's career progression. Until and unless that is changed and absent a national seniority system, with all due respect to other pilots and other companies, first and foremost, one must stay true to one's own company.

I’d say that was true until ONEX stepped in and is now going to do what ONEX does (hint: GS is not thinking about your career progression)

[cloak]

With all due respect, neither are you!!

[TheAlcalde]

With all due respect, neither are you!!

Of course I don’t care about your career. I don’t know who you are. I’m thinking about mine. Something about a rising tide and we all drown?

[cloak]

With all due respect, neither are you!!

Of course I don’t care about your career. I don’t know who you are. I’m thinking about mine. Something about a rising tide and we all drown?

I rest my case! That was my point that WestJet pilots must take the seemingly supportive and encouraging comments on an anonymous board with a grain of salt as they know not their motivations. Also, value their longevity with the company, or that of their former colleagues if they choose to move on elsewhere. Have a nice career!

[Canadaflyer46]

It is highly debatable how factually true the video was, but regardless it was made in poor taste and served no purpose other than to inflame the situation and undermine the negotiations. It lacked diplomacy and class. The fact that uninitiated anonymous posters cheer them on, is exactly the reason why it was those things! If gaining traction in negotiations continues to allude the pilots, perhaps it's time to put forward someone more in tune with company culture and more committed to its success than wanting to "burn the place down" which simply means they have to then surrender themselves to another company with another set of problems, at the bottom of their list no less!! As great as pilot professional comaraderie is, it has to be balanced against longevity with one's company since it provides the greater part of one's career progression. Until and unless that is changed and absent a national seniority system, with all due respect to other pilots and other companies, first and foremost, one must stay true to one's own company.

I understand you have not been part of WJ for a long time. I can assure you that the only ‘company culture’ that still exists is one of spite, disdain and contempt towards employee groups.
WJ now has a choice to offer a competitive contact to their pilots, or shut the company down. Our CEO has openly declared he’d prefer to park airplanes rather than offer a competitive contract. How much ‘diplomacy and class’ does that show?

[TheAlcalde]

With all due respect, neither are you!!

Of course I don’t care about your career. I don’t know who you are. I’m thinking about mine. Something about a rising tide and we all drown?

I rest my case! That was my point that WestJet pilots must take the seemingly supportive and encouraging comments on an anonymous board with a grain of salt as they know not their motivations. Also, value their longevity with the company, or that of their former colleagues if they choose to move on elsewhere. Have a nice career!

Fair enough. We need more pilots to groom planes and help the bottom line. Won’t somebody think of the investors!

[cloak]

I understand you have not been part of WJ for a long time. I can assure you that the only ‘company culture’ that still exists is one of spite, disdain and contempt towards employee groups.
WJ now has a choice to offer a competitive contact to their pilots, or shut the company down. Our CEO has openly declared he’d prefer to park airplanes rather than offer a competitive contract. How much ‘diplomacy and class’ does that show?

You don't know that, and I don't know anything about you, and it matters not, but one's perception is one's reality. You just said what your perception is!!

[FlyingMonkey]

It is highly debatable how factually true the video was, but regardless it was made in poor taste and served no purpose other than to inflame the situation and undermine the negotiations. It lacked diplomacy and class. The fact that uninitiated anonymous posters cheer them on, is exactly the reason why it was those things! If gaining traction in negotiations continues to allude the pilots, perhaps it's time to put forward someone more in tune with company culture and more committed to its success than wanting to "burn the place down" which simply means they have to then surrender themselves to another company with another set of problems, at the bottom of their list no less!! As great as pilot professional comaraderie is, it has to be balanced against longevity with one's company since it provides the greater part of one's career progression. Until and unless that is changed and absent a national seniority system, with all due respect to other pilots and other companies, first and foremost, one must stay true to one's own company.

I understand you have not been part of WJ for a long time. I can assure you that the only ‘company culture’ that still exists is one of spite, disdain and contempt towards employee groups.
WJ now has a choice to offer a competitive contact to their pilots, or shut the company down. Our CEO has openly declared he’d prefer to park airplanes rather than offer a competitive contract. How much ‘diplomacy and class’ does that show?

Alexis said that he would rather fly less planes than put the company in an uncompetitive position. You are twisting his words to fit your narrative.
Those are fair comments and no worse than the rhetoric the union has been pushing. This notion that the company is some kind of boogie man is untrue. I agree that there have been decisions made that were not in the best interests of the employee group but these are business decisions, not personal or vindicate. The ALPA video was classless and did nothing to further the pilot groups position at the negotiating table.

[cloak]

I don't think what he said was unreasonable either. It's absolutely better to park airplanes than to operate them at a loss, because it stops very quickly!! Unfortunately, some hear what they want to hear when others speak, not actually what was said, especially when trying to feed a narrative.

[Canadaflyer46]

It is highly debatable how factually true the video was, but regardless it was made in poor taste and served no purpose other than to inflame the situation and undermine the negotiations. It lacked diplomacy and class. The fact that uninitiated anonymous posters cheer them on, is exactly the reason why it was those things! If gaining traction in negotiations continues to allude the pilots, perhaps it's time to put forward someone more in tune with company culture and more committed to its success than wanting to "burn the place down" which simply means they have to then surrender themselves to another company with another set of problems, at the bottom of their list no less!! As great as pilot professional comaraderie is, it has to be balanced against longevity with one's company since it provides the greater part of one's career progression. Until and unless that is changed and absent a national seniority system, with all due respect to other pilots and other companies, first and foremost, one must stay true to one's own company.

I understand you have not been part of WJ for a long time. I can assure you that the only ‘company culture’ that still exists is one of spite, disdain and contempt towards employee groups.
WJ now has a choice to offer a competitive contact to their pilots, or shut the company down. Our CEO has openly declared he’d prefer to park airplanes rather than offer a competitive contract. How much ‘diplomacy and class’ does that show?

Alexis said that he would rather fly less planes than put the company in an uncompetitive position. You are twisting his words to fit your narrative.
Those are fair comments and no worse than the rhetoric the union has been pushing. This notion that the company is some kind of boogie man is untrue. I agree that there have been decisions made that were not in the best interests of the employee group but these are business decisions, not personal or vindicate. The ALPA video was classless and did nothing to further the pilot groups position at the negotiating table.

How is forcing commuters to take an unnecessary deadhead in order to get paid a ‘business decision’. That’s the opposite, it’s harming the business by taking away a seat they could sell. As ALPA said in a recent Comm, it’s about ‘who is right, not what is right’.
The current business plan seems to rest on only being able to make a profit if the pilots agree to substandard pay and conditions. Seems to me that maybe WJ should get out of the airline business if that’s the case. I hear busses are a lot cheaper to run and easier to crew.

[Canadaflyer46]

I don't think what he said was unreasonable either. It's absolutely better to park airplanes than to operate them at a loss, because it stops very quickly!! Unfortunately, some hear what they want to hear when others speak, not actually what was said, especially when trying to feed a narrative.

I completely agree. However if they’re running planes at a loss, it will have very little to do with what the pilots up front are being paid, and far more likely the recent years of poor management decisions and destruction of the WJ brand.

[averageatbest]

I don't know who Cloak is, but he sounds like he would make sure that Alexis' boots are always cleaned and spit shined.

[Curiousflyer]

I don't think what he said was unreasonable either. It's absolutely better to park airplanes than to operate them at a loss, because it stops very quickly!! Unfortunately, some hear what they want to hear when others speak, not actually what was said, especially when trying to feed a narrative.

Not necessarily, a leased max is about $400k USD a month, if you park the plane, your out $400k. Operating at a loss they’d likely lose a lot less than that a month.

It doesn’t matter, it’s all positioning for bargaining. The ELT at WestJet has turned Canada’s most beloved airline, into one of the most hated. The downfall is already being brought up in MBA classes across the country, the brand is now worthless. Employees are right to be upset with the direction of the company, the were once valued and empowered, now they’re just cattle. This only ends in a strike, lockout, or legislated back to work. WestJet ELT are hoping for the later, then try their luck at binding arbitration, which has historically favoured employers.

[Mostly Harmless]

There is so much wrong with this that I'm not even sure where to begin.

1. It is highly debatable how factually true the video was, but 2. regardless it was made in poor taste and served no purpose other than to inflame the situation and undermine the negotiations.3. It lacked diplomacy and class. The fact that uninitiated anonymous posters cheer them on, is exactly the reason why it was those things! 4. If gaining traction in negotiations continues to allude the pilots, perhaps it's time to put forward someone more in tune with company culture and more committed to its success than wanting to 5 "burn the place down" which simply means they have to then 6. surrender themselves to another company with another set of problems, at the bottom of their list no less!! 7. As great as pilot professional comaraderie is, 8. it has to be balanced against longevity with one's company since it provides the greater part of one's career progression. Until and unless that is changed and absent a national seniority system, with all due respect to other pilots and other companies, first and foremost, one must stay true to one's own company.

1. How, exactly, is it debatable or factually inaccurate?
2. (Sarcasm mode) If there's one thing that the WJ executives are known for, it's their class and lack of inflaming a situation. (Sarcasm mode off) I guess they really do hate competition.
3. Yeah.... Diplomacy and class... Our leadership has set the example and we are following.
4. I think the French had a word for that person who would be more in tune with the company and its culture. Collaborator. That always makes things better.
5. We aren't the ones making the business decisions. In other words, we aren't the ones with the matches and gasoline. If management wants better relations with the employees, all they have to do is start working with us instead of against us.
6. Sometimes, it is totally worth it just to be on the right side of history.
7. Your fear of a unified pilot group is intriguing to me.
8. I am exactly as loyal to the company as the company is to me. Which is not at all.

You can troll on behalf of management all you want, but people are angry and they want, no demand, change. The fact is that times have changed. The power dynamic that management has enjoyed for 40 years is over. I would encourage companies to adapt and survive because those who don't adapt will not survive. And that's not because of the employees, that is a direct result of bad management and bad execution.

For many, many years on these forums, the phrase market forces has been used to justify low and falling pilot wages. At the same time, market forces has been used to justify over inflated executive wages. Well, market forces have changed. Pilot pay IS going up and as much as you might think you can fight the market, you can't. Market forces are going to drive up wages.