Porter pilots make more now

[Apestogetherstrong]

Porter payscales better than Flair. How does this make sense. How come E2 pilots get paid more than 737 pilots.

[Aviationanalysis234]

Porter payscales better than Flair. How does this make sense. How come E2 pilots get paid more than 737 pilots.

Also better than WJ now

[flyinhigh]

Because senior Flair pilots sold their soul at the prospect of making a few extra bucks just to help the company out. That was a negotiated settlement that still didn’t have trip and duty rigs…

[rudder]

We are approaching a point now in demand for experience where starting pay for CA on an NB 100,000lbs+ should be $200k. The difference is that tenure will not expand that number as much as before. Think 2.5-3% tenure increase x 10 or 12 years to top scale. So the difference between a year 1 and year 10 skipper might only be $50-60k.

The pilot group that has the closest model to this is Transat.

[Canadaflyer46]

I’m pretty sure the ink was still wet on their crappy CA when the armchair quarterbacks here said ‘those Flair guys are gonna regret signing that soon’. Well here we are only a few weeks later…

[khedrei]

The better question is, why does a captain make MORE than double an FO.

[FlyingMonkey]

There is a higher demand for qualified CPT candidates than FO’s at the moment.

[Canadaflyer46]

The better question is, why does a captain make MORE than double an FO.

At AC and WJ the captain is often making FOUR times the FO sat next to them. FOs in Canada aren’t viewed as having any more worth than the FAs/CSAs. Easily replaceable and when they run out of bodies you can sit right seat straight out of flight school with 250 hours because Transport doesn’t give a flying f*ck about pilot experience like they do in the US.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Waiting for co-joe to comment on this.

[Donald]

Waiting for co-joe to comment on this.

He's been too busy today washing Brian's van and driving for Uber Eats to log in here.

[tbaylx]

I’m pretty sure the ink was still wet on their crappy CA when the armchair quarterbacks here said ‘those Flair guys are gonna regret signing that soon’. Well here we are only a few weeks later…

I doubt many Flair pilots are regretting the CBA that seems to have been the catalyst for at least 2 other airlines matching our increases. Congrats to the Porter pilots for a competitive pay structure. It's very close to what Flair pays now, in some levels a bit more in some levels a bit less.

Porter Vs Flair MMG.JPG (88.49 KiB) Viewed 3485 times

[cdnavater]

I’m pretty sure the ink was still wet on their crappy CA when the armchair quarterbacks here said ‘those Flair guys are gonna regret signing that soon’. Well here we are only a few weeks later…

I doubt many Flair pilots are regretting the CBA that seems to have been the catalyst for at least 2 other airlines matching our increases. Congrats to the Porter pilots for a competitive pay structure. It's very close to what Flair pays now, in some levels a bit more in some levels a bit less.

Porter Vs Flair MMG.JPG

You! Are worse than a used car salesman!
In all cases Porter captains are paid more per hour, your comparison is using your mmg of 85 and Porters 80, you hide that fact by simply referring to the mmg as the formula without clarifying what that is.
AGAIN, working more is not a raise, it’s WORKING more!
Your pilots have to work almost an entire extra month to make the same, an extra MONTH!

[tbaylx]

I’m pretty sure the ink was still wet on their crappy CA when the armchair quarterbacks here said ‘those Flair guys are gonna regret signing that soon’. Well here we are only a few weeks later…

I doubt many Flair pilots are regretting the CBA that seems to have been the catalyst for at least 2 other airlines matching our increases. Congrats to the Porter pilots for a competitive pay structure. It's very close to what Flair pays now, in some levels a bit more in some levels a bit less.

Porter Vs Flair MMG.JPG

You! Are worse than a used car salesman!
In all cases Porter captains are paid more per hour, your comparison is using your mmg of 85 and Porters 80, you hide that fact by simply referring to the mmg as the formula without clarifying what that is.
AGAIN, working more is not a raise, it’s WORKING more!
Your pilots have to work almost an entire extra month to make the same, an extra MONTH!

See it however you want. At each company, you are guaranteed the above salary. Nothing more, nothing less. That is an apples-to-apples comparison. The hourly rate only matters if you choose to work more than MMG, in that case, Flair pilots are paid double time for GDO's.

All pilots are limited by CARs duty and limitations and Flair pilots cannot be scheduled more than 18 days a month which means our pilots are actually guaranteed one more day off per month than Porter in months with 31 days.

There are lots of options for pilots to apply at an airline that gives them the best pay/lifestyle for their situation, but should be based on facts, not just looking at an hourly rate.

[cdnavater]

I doubt many Flair pilots are regretting the CBA that seems to have been the catalyst for at least 2 other airlines matching our increases. Congrats to the Porter pilots for a competitive pay structure. It's very close to what Flair pays now, in some levels a bit more in some levels a bit less.

Porter Vs Flair MMG.JPG

You! Are worse than a used car salesman!
In all cases Porter captains are paid more per hour, your comparison is using your mmg of 85 and Porters 80, you hide that fact by simply referring to the mmg as the formula without clarifying what that is.
AGAIN, working more is not a raise, it’s WORKING more!
Your pilots have to work almost an entire extra month to make the same, an extra MONTH!

See it however you want. At each company, you are guaranteed the above salary. Nothing more, nothing less. That is an apples-to-apples comparison. The hourly rate only matters if you choose to work more than MMG, in that case, Flair pilots are paid double time for GDO's.

All pilots are limited by CARs duty and limitations and Flair pilots cannot be scheduled more than 18 days a month which means our pilots are actually guaranteed one more day off per month than Porter in months with 31 days.

There are lots of options for pilots to apply at an airline that gives them the best pay/lifestyle for their situation, but should be based on facts, not just looking at an hourly rate.

I choose to see it without the sales pitch, guaranteed days off are only applicable if you’re on reserve, your pilots will work the equivalent of almost an extra month block, at 5 credit per day, that is one extra day per month, argue that all you want, it is a fact!

[Canadaflyer46]

Comparing a 737 payscale to an EMJ payscale and saying Flair is marginally better lol. It should be 30% better at least. 132 pax versus 180.

[cdnavater]

Comparing a 737 payscale to an EMJ payscale and saying Flair is marginally better lol. It should be 30% better at least. 132 pax versus 180.

Absolutely, I completely overlooked that because of my disgust for used car salesman.
He reminds of the salesman who told me if I was trading in my car, I couldn’t have the sale price. Car was on the lot for 5995.00, I went in and started to negotiate, I asked how much for my car in trade, they evaluated it at 4000.00. I said perfect I’ll write you a cheque for the difference, he then proceeded to tell me that the price on the window was a sale and with trade I had to pay 10,000. So, either way I’m paying 6000. After nearly losing my shit on this guy for thinking I was so f’n stupid, I went to the manager, paid 5000 cash and sold my other car private a week later for 4000, never forgot how sleezy that guy was and it’s who I picture when ever tbaylx, tries his snow job!

[Chaxterium]

Comparing a 737 payscale to an EMJ payscale and saying Flair is marginally better lol. It should be 30% better at least. 132 pax versus 180.

This comment makes me wish AvCanada had a "Like" button for comments. I'd like it, and then unlike it just so I could like it again.

But forget about the 737 for a second. A year 1 Porter E2 captain now makes around $17k more than a year one 757 captain at Morningstar. There's a nearly 100,000lb difference in the MTOW of the E2 and the 757.

This is a game changer.

[rudder]

Comparing a 737 payscale to an EMJ payscale and saying Flair is marginally better lol. It should be 30% better at least. 132 pax versus 180.

This comment makes me wish AvCanada had a "Like" button for comments. I'd like it, and then unlike it just so I could like it again.

But forget about the 737 for a second. A year 1 Porter E2 captain now makes around $17k more than a year one 757 captain at Morningstar. There's a nearly 100,000lb difference in the MTOW of the E2 and the 757.

This is a game changer.

You need to understand the dynamic circa 2023.

It isn’t a ‘weight-speed-seats’ formula anymore. It is a “we ordered airplanes worth $50-100 million each and we cannot afford to have them parked” or “we have a commercial service agreement and cannot afford to be in material breach” environment while pilot supply is at an all time low.

You pay whatever you have to in order to fill a pilot seat. Look at the US. Coming soon to Canada.

[Chaxterium]

You need to understand the dynamic circa 2023.

It isn’t a ‘weight-speed-seats’ formula anymore. It is a “we ordered airplanes worth $50-100 million each and we cannot afford to have them parked” or “we have a commercial service agreement and cannot afford to be in material breach” environment while pilot supply is at an all time low.

You pay whatever you have to in order to fill a pilot seat. Look at the US. Coming soon to Canada.

Yep I realize that and I agree completely. Although I'm skeptical about the US pay coming to Canada. I hope you're right though.

[DanWEC]

I'm not sure if I would describe almost half of Flair's FO scale being nearly 20% less than Porter's, working 5 hrs more, in a 73 compared to an E2, (And no crew meals) "Very close".

Anyhow, Very good on Porter on this scale for semi-regional flying. Hopefully Flair's takes another large bump very soon. They're fighting for the same pilots.