Are flying-students getting lazy???

[greenwich]

When I was in flying school I spent a lot of time visiting charter operators on the field, chatting to 'working' pilots, asking questions, making connections, networking, etc. (I was essentially just trying to learn as much as I could about the industry I was about to enter)

Today, now a 'working' pilot, I am stunned that I never see (or meet) student pilots. In fact, it has been well over two years since a student pilot has come throuh our doors to 'chat'! What makes it even more surprising is that our hangar is located right next to two flying schools!!

I remember an instructor told me a couple years ago that his students have gotten lazier and lazier over the years! That mom and dad pay for everything...that students these days don't put any effort in...that barely passing has become acceptable! WTF!?!?

GET OUT THERE...MEET PILOTS...ASK QUESTIONS...BE INTERESTED...GET PREPARED...LEARN!!!

G

[. ._]

Maybe they're getting more polite, and not bugging hard working people.

Just a thought. I'm not in the market for a flying job now, but when I am, WATCH OUT- HERE COMES ISTP! LOCK THE HANGAR!

-istp

[N2]

Maybe they are learning that pilots are not gods....and don't wanna waste their time talking to them.

[marktheone]

Less time door banging and hangar hanging, more time studying.

[LostinRotation]

Two of my students that tried to talk to a couple corporate guys last week, told me today oddly enough how they were treated like crap because they were "just students". I had a similar experience a couple years ago when I was doing my CPL and on a x-country to build time. It might not be that students are getting lazy, maybe we're just not being as nice as pilots used to be 10-20 years ago. After that experience, any student asks me anything I'll give them as much time as I can.

-=0=LiR=0=-

[. ._]

Maybe where greenwich works has high minimums for hiring, and the students now are more savvy because of AvCanada and aren't wasting their time shooting for an ATPL job with a 200 hour CPL.

Oh I could throw a lot of ideas out there. I think I will!

(Of course, I don't know shit. So keep that in mind. )

-istp

[ramp_agent]

If a flight student came up to you asking questions and you were half as negitive as most people on this form they would not be asking for much longer. Just a thought.

[YULFLYER]

Just remember that we all had to / have to start somewhere and being fresh out of flight school, study your buns off and meet and greet as many nice people as possible, you can tell if a pilot wants to give you a little inside info, of they just think that your a piece of trash...... which i have noticed there are alot of people flying that don't really care anymore, with this being said I just wish our canadian pilots in the upper world would help out, like the good old days we are here to learn, and could very well one day be flying you and the misses to your lovely vaction....................

[No Conflict]

I was the original "Hangar Whore" when I was a student, and I found that 99% of pilots i talked to would give you the time of day, as long as you weren't coming in to talk to them while they were busy. I find that places in bigger cities will treat you like crap, even if they are not busy, maybe because they think they are important and don't have time for a "Student".

The contacts (and good friends) I made while climbing the ladder helped me land a job when I was ready. I personally will take the time to talk to a student or low timer, and answer questions and show him/her the plane, just as many others did for me.

But on the other hand, there are students whose mommy and daddy pay for everything and figure cause daddy works at AC, their first job will be left seat 777.

[Donald]

Where I trained at, there were no operators based. However there was an international airport less than an hour away, where I could have chatted with guys who'd paid for PPC's and/or worked in dispatch for less than minimum wage.

Looking back, I am not sure if that hypothetical conversation would have helped or hurt.

[.......]

I think it's a question of interest, or lack thereof...

Don't want to put everyone in the same basket but, I think most youngsters lack passion and interest, once again, too much time spent playing XBOX, PS2 and Nintendo...

And once they finally agree to do something with their life, they do the bare minimum to achieve it because they were brainwashed into thinking that they can achieve anything with minimum effort... talk about hitting a wall!

[co-joe]

Funny when I first started charter flying one captain said I was lazy because I rotated the card of a rotatable card ADF instead of flying approaches fixed card. Was I ever lazy? Boy oh Boy!

I found from my job hunting days that before I had a CPL, chief pilots and such were nice to me and almost always willing to show me around. Once I had a CPL and a resume in hand they were all way too busy to even talk to me. So here's my advice:

Before you graduate, go to the desk and ask if anyone could show a student pilot around. Don't carry a resume, just show up eager and empty handed. Remember the names of the people who were nice to you and then when you do have time under your belt, you can say hey, remember the time you showed me around?

[swede]

I think it's a question of interest, or lack thereof...

Don't want to put everyone in the same basket but, I think most youngsters lack passion and interest, once again, too much time spent playing XBOX, PS2 and Nintendo...

And once they finally agree to do something with their life, they do the bare minimum to achieve it because they were brainwashed into thinking that they can achieve anything with minimum effort... talk about hitting a wall!

Bang on, you've hit the nail on the head! There are a few notable exceptions, but overall I would say your statement is correct.

[Wigwam Willie]

Maybe they found out that 60,000 dollars of training will land them a job as an aerial chip delivery technician? That's got to be a drain on any white man's passion, yes?

Love the journey, not the destination, kiddies

[. ._]

I think it's a question of interest, or lack thereof...

Don't want to put everyone in the same basket but, I think most youngsters lack passion and interest, once again, too much time spent playing XBOX, PS2 and Nintendo...

And once they finally agree to do something with their life, they do the bare minimum to achieve it because they were brainwashed into thinking that they can achieve anything with minimum effort... talk about hitting a wall!

Yeah, but it's always been that way, hasn't it? That's the way I was, but I didn't have XBOX growing up. I did get cable TV when I was about 14 though.

-istp

[Switchfoot]

Two of my students that tried to talk to a couple corporate guys last week, told me today oddly enough how they were treated like crap because they were "just students". I had a similar experience a couple years ago when I was doing my CPL and on a x-country to build time. -=0=LiR=0=-

Nothing against instructors or pilots but something fun to do is to walk in to chat with some of those folks and play dumb. It's amazing how many people assume things just by what they see walking through the door!

Chat them up for a bit and then watch their faces change to a look of disbelief when you mention that you have been flying for several years and actually have some knowledge of your own! There is nothing worse than an arrogant or know-it-all pilot.

But seriously, networking is always a good thing whether you have 10 hours or 10,000 hours. It's a small industry, and you never know when you'll have to cross the same bridge again.


Switchfoot.

[.......]

[/quote]

Yeah, but it's always been that way, hasn't it? That's the way I was, but I didn't have XBOX growing up. I did get cable TV when I was about 14 though.

-istp[/quote]


I don't think so ISTP... And I'm opening another door here... MOTIVATION! It has to come from somewhere! Teenagers have to be motivated if you want to raise interest, some of them will find it on their own, but most need a push of some kind, and with all of today's distractions, I think more of them are like that. And as motivators, I think parents did a better job with us than most of us do with our kids.

[AIRUPTHERE]

Working at CYOW for over 2 years now, ive bugged my fair share of pilots. I have to say that 99% of the ones Ive talked to have been great.

When I first started working at the airport, I wasnt shy at all about asking any questions I had. Ill never forget one American Eagle FO who came through YOW regularly and always asked how the flight training was going. Then one day he was flying out, he had a box that he gave to me. It was a bunch of books he had from groundschool as well as some notes and other stuff.

I still keep in touch with some of the ones ive gotten to know and its been invaluable tool for me.

AIR
CYOW

[. ._]

SkyLounger,

Just for time-frame reference- how old are ya?

I'm 36.

-istp

[.......]

Only 6 years more...

[oldtimer]

It's all about corporate spys and espionage.
All kinds of cloak and dagger shit going on.
Companies don't want to have their pilots blabbing corporate secrets to competitors pilots who come over disguised as student pilots. So they shun them.
Most pilots are so full of themselves that once they get started talking, you can't shut them up.

Now, if you really want to see what is going on, just take one of these "student pilots" out for a fam fight in your turbine twin and I will bet dollars to doughnuts they fly it like a 10,00 hour pilot because that is what they are.


See now, all you young wannabe's, I just may have scammed some free twin time for you, so go bug the CP.

[co-joe]

... And I'm opening another door here... MOTIVATION! It has to come from somewhere! Teenagers have to be motivated if you want to raise interest, some of them will find it on their own, but most need a push of some kind, and with all of today's distractions, I think more of them are like that. And as motivators, I think parents did a better job with us than most of us do with our kids.

I love these things.

[. ._]

It's all about corporate spys and espionage.
All kinds of cloak and dagger shit going on.
Companies don't want to have their pilots blabbing corporate secrets to competitors pilots who come over disguised as student pilots. So they shun them.
Most pilots are so full of themselves that once they get started talking, you can't shut them up.

Now, if you really want to see what is going on, just take one of these "student pilots" out for a fam fight in your turbine twin and I will bet dollars to doughnuts they fly it like a 10,00 hour pilot because that is what they are.


See now, all you young wannabe's, I just may have scammed some free twin time for you, so go bug the CP.

Are you being sarcastic, oldtimer? If so, the proper emoticon is something like this.

If not, that's news to me. And pretty wierd. I mean, what's secret in aviation. You hire me to fly your plane somewhere. Big deal.

-istp

[gr8gazu]

Actually it is true to varying degrees Istp. Corporate aircraft have in past been targets for corporate espionage. I don't know of any pilot/posers but because pilots are privy to company info, they often don't talk with the exception of the niceties of the day.

[float av8er]

[/quote]Before you graduate, go to the desk and ask if anyone could show a student pilot around. Don't carry a resume, just show up eager and empty handed. [/quote]

I totally diasgree with this. If someone walked into your buisiness and started asking questions about your operation and such you're prolly gunna ask them what stage they are at in their training. If they say that they have 190 hrs and no resume you're gunna look at them like they're nutz. You may not have to drop off a resume. BUT if they ask for one you may want to have something to give them other than a blank stare. When I went on my roadtrip jobhunting I only hit places where I could work within the next year. Everyone except for one man was very nice and very receptive. That one perticular man made it sound like he had pilots knocking on his door every day, Three times a day. You cannot afford not to show up in person with a reume in hand. Mail, Fax, and e-mail only work if the opperator is actually seeking someone out(in other words very seldomly). My current job I attained by doing a road trip and talking to people. The genltman who got me a job happened to be the owner of a seaplane service who's son owned an AMO who did the maintanance on my current boss's airplane. I talked to him for about 15 minutes and gave him a generic resume. I then asked very politely if he could pass that resume along to anyone looking for a cessna pilot for this float seaon. Then left figuring he might just throw it on his desk like all the others. Then one day the phone rang and I got a job due to that gentlemans reference. I will be getting him a case of beer or a bottle of something for his troubles (he may need a pilot later on and it never hurts to stay on peoples good side). But my point is.....after all that job hunting it was the guy who wasn't hiring that ended up getting me a job. Just sit down with these people if they have a second, be personable, shoot the shit with as many guys in the industry as you can(whether they are AME's, Owners, Ramprats, Pilots, or Guys who happen to be hanging around the operation). In fact you don't even have to keep it in the industry...a buddy of mine was at a subway and started talking to the manager who happened to be related to an owner of an air service who ended up giving him a job. Talk to everyone about what you're doing. You can't afford not to. GET OUT THERE!!!!!!