Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid in the world?

[FelixGustof]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

[YC87DRVR]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

Lol

When was your PFO?

[PostmasterGeneral]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

Lol

When was your PFO?

Hit the nail on the head with that one methinks.

[co-joe]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

When you hear that out of context it sounds bad, but no AC pilots in general are not the lowest paid pilots in the world. However, AC hires wide body jet FO's straight out of initial training, and pays them flay pay, which technically makes them the lowest paid wide body FOs on planet earth.

If you weren't too picky about what your definition about AC pilots, and if you consider Jazz pilots to be AC pilots since they get paid by AC, then you could also say the AC pilots are among the lowest paid regional pilots on the planet as well.

Welcome to the NHL of airlines.

[Eric Janson]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

Some Airlines pay their Pilots on a 'Local' pay scale that reflects the wages in the countries. Even with these wages they can live very well - they will be some of the highest paid people in the country. It's still a fraction of what Pilots make at Western Airlines.

[lownslow]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

Lol

When was your PFO?

Hit the nail on the head with that one methinks.

Someone tries to figure out where they may stand among global peers and gets, “LoL LoSeR mUsT bE bUtThUrT.”

Raise the floor, dummies, it’s good for everyone.

[sstaurus]

Except this guy has been trolling for a while now.

[Bede]

No, they’re not but their CA still has a ways to go from a QoL POV (vacation, max days worked, training outside the block).

[FNGYYZ]

Curious on the current state of the industry...

Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid pilots in the world now?

Lol

When was your PFO?

Comical that the first response is: let's go on the personal attack

AC pilots are the lowest paid global airlines pilots in the world and what is NOT helping is having an arrogance that anyone who says anything about it secretly wants to be there. Lol!

[rando]

Let’s focus on what's most important. Anyone without a real cost of living adjustment is earning about 20 percent less value than they were February 2020.

You can hardly be frustrated with this though. Canadians begged for this inflation. Mask me, vax me money printer me brrrrrrrrrrrr. Americans had some of the same nonsense to deal with but they are fighters, and you see their pay reflects the difference in attitude.

Secondly, taxes are just as much a problem. Some of the wages in Canada would be survivable if the gov didn’t take half of our money to tax. Gas tax, hst tax on gas tax, income tax, property tax carbon tax. Between all these taxes if your income is 100k, you are giving 3500 dollars a month in taxes. The efficiency of your tax dollars is atrocious. Lots of money spent on BS. But lots of Canadians want more services, more spending, more taxes (must be the ones paying the least tax and recipients of the most services). Carbon tax alone is responsible for a significant amount of grocery inflation. Way to go! How is that carbon tax working? Have we reduced our carbon footprint since it’s inception? Hmmm.

[YC87DRVR]

Let’s focus on what's most important. Anyone without a real cost of living adjustment is earning about 20 percent less value than they were February 2020.

You can hardly be frustrated with this though. Canadians begged for this inflation. Mask me, vax me money printer me brrrrrrrrrrrr. Americans had some of the same nonsense to deal with but they are fighters, and you see their pay reflects the difference in attitude.

Secondly, taxes are just as much a problem. Some of the wages in Canada would be survivable if the gov didn’t take half of our money to tax. Gas tax, hst tax on gas tax, income tax, property tax carbon tax. Between all these taxes if your income is 100k, you are giving 3500 dollars a month in taxes. The efficiency of your tax dollars is atrocious. Lots of money spent on BS. But lots of Canadians want more services, more spending, more taxes (must be the ones paying the least tax and recipients of the most services). Carbon tax alone is responsible for a significant amount of grocery inflation. Way to go! How is that carbon tax working? Have we reduced our carbon footprint since it’s inception? Hmmm.

Good job keeping it aviation related Randy Bo Bandy

[Tigger]

But lots of Canadians want more services, more spending, more taxes (must be the ones paying the least tax and recipients of the most services).

Liberal voters, in other words, who happily elected the least qualified moron to ever hold a public office. And then did it again. This country is screwed.

[noreasterYHZ]

This thread tells me that:

1) there are AC pilots who still have some sort of blind cockiness towards the quantifiable fact they are giant losers in the global competition of raising pilot & compensation

2) that somehow a Liberal government or a PM is to blame for their plight. The Liberal government wasn't even in power when this group solidified FOS concessions with a 10 yrs contract. Simply unheard of in labour contract negotiations.

I'm totally baffled how someone thinks a conservative government would be better for a labour movement particularly considering this Liberal govt is propped up by a Workers Party. Hate the NDP all you want but they can't alienate their core supporters of workers by being seen as anti labour.

I'd suggest we focus on things we can control like governance & solidarity instead of diatribes on carbon taxes

[DanWEC]

This thread tells me that:

1) there are AC pilots who still have some sort of blind cockiness towards the quantifiable fact they are giant losers in the global competition of raising pilot & compensation

2) that somehow a Liberal government or a PM is to blame for their plight. The Liberal government wasn't even in power when this group solidified FOS concessions with a 10 yrs contract. Simply unheard of in labour contract negotiations.

I'm totally baffled how someone thinks a conservative government would be better for a labour movement particularly considering this Liberal govt is propped up by a Workers Party. Hate the NDP all you want but they can't alienate their core supporters of workers by being seen as anti labour.

I'd suggest we focus on things we can control like governance & solidarity instead of diatribes on carbon taxes

Well said. People also forget we can thank the Conservatives for the single largest contribution to the detriment of wages in this country's history; Ordering AC pilots back to work and removing their right to strike.

[Tigger]

1) there are AC pilots who still have some sort of blind cockiness towards the quantifiable fact they are giant losers in the global competition of raising pilot & compensation

Yup, we suck compared to lots of places in the world, but it’s hard to expect any big contractual wins when our closest competitor sucks so much harder that guys with 10+ years are happy to start over at the bottom here.

[braaap Braap]

This thread tells me that:

1) there are AC pilots who still have some sort of blind cockiness towards the quantifiable fact they are giant losers in the global competition of raising pilot & compensation

2) that somehow a Liberal government or a PM is to blame for their plight. The Liberal government wasn't even in power when this group solidified FOS concessions with a 10 yrs contract. Simply unheard of in labour contract negotiations.

I'm totally baffled how someone thinks a conservative government would be better for a labour movement particularly considering this Liberal govt is propped up by a Workers Party. Hate the NDP all you want but they can't alienate their core supporters of workers by being seen as anti labour.

I'd suggest we focus on things we can control like governance & solidarity instead of diatribes on carbon taxes

Well said. People also forget we can thank the Conservatives for the single largest contribution to the detriment of wages in this country's history; Ordering AC pilots back to work and removing their right to strike.

Not to mention the conservative platform still includes:

52. Increasing Airline Choice for Canadians
In close partnership with provincial/territorial governments, airport authorities across the country, and
industry partners, the Conservative Party will both introduce & actively promote a new framework for
increased domestic & foreign airline competition in Canada, including experimentation with cabotage
on a trial basis on select routes.

source: https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-co ... 4e7480.pdf

...because I'm sure that will help our cause.

[noreasterYHZ]

1) there are AC pilots who still have some sort of blind cockiness towards the quantifiable fact they are giant losers in the global competition of raising pilot & compensation

Yup, we suck compared to lots of places in the world, but it’s hard to expect any big contractual wins when our closest competitor sucks so much harder that guys with 10+ years are happy to start over at the bottom here.

3) blaming WJ

It wasn't WJ that locked us into a 10 yrs deal or WJ that took concessions during said 10 yrs deal. That was all on ACPA pilots and ACPA pilots who voted in that administration. An administration that was very anti ALPA.

Now we are the lowest compensated ALPA legacy carrier by embarrassing statistics

Focus on what we can control. Hold our reps accountable and make sure we got the right people in place. Ensure we are forging relationships with true industry leaders and not management. They are paid to pay us less

[Tigger]

1) there are AC pilots who still have some sort of blind cockiness towards the quantifiable fact they are giant losers in the global competition of raising pilot & compensation

Yup, we suck compared to lots of places in the world, but it’s hard to expect any big contractual wins when our closest competitor sucks so much harder that guys with 10+ years are happy to start over at the bottom here.

3) blaming WJ

It wasn't WJ that locked us into a 10 yrs deal or WJ that took concessions during said 10 yrs deal. That was all on ACPA pilots and ACPA pilots who voted in that administration. An administration that was very anti ALPA.

Now we are the lowest compensated ALPA legacy carrier by embarrassing statistics

Focus on what we can control. Hold our reps accountable and make sure we got the right people in place. Ensure we are forging relationships with true industry leaders and not management. They are paid to pay us less

Yeah, I guess you’re right; we’ll just demand the company pay us what would effectively be 4 times what our nearest competitor in this country makes out of the goodness of their hearts, because why wouldn’t they?

I’d like to make one meeeeelion dollars a year, but give your head a shake. Until our competitors come ANYWHERE remotely close to our existing WAWCON it simply ain’t gonna happen no matter what we do. Dream on, though.

[Freshredmeat]

Lol...

AC has:

24 x 777s
16 x A330s
37 x 787s

For a total of 77 widebodies, not including freighters

Westjet has what - 5?

You should be giving your head a shake for thinking that Westjet is the reason your wages are down

Does Westjet blame PAL? Or Buffalo Joe? I mean WJ does fly to Yellowknife. Pretty much the same thing right?

Even Calin post FOS made the remark how AC pilots were the top quartile in North America

Now AC pilots are the bottom 0%

Canadian regionals & ULCCs pay their new hires more

Lol...keep blaming WJ

[MontrealCanucks]

Imagine you're a company that is involved in a high capital cost and regulated industry. You and your government aided competitors are all founded roughly the same time in the 1930s

Then all of a sudden they deregulate the industry 50 years later. There is suddenly a massive shift in the industry. Low cost competitors enter the industry and there is an inevitable race to the bottom.

Compensation is slashed, companies go bankrupt and lots of mergers.

Through the chaos there is a new upstart local low cost company with the advantage of less "baggage"

They thrive and rapidly expand and stick to a market niche while the older airline sticks to a global strategy

Across the street the same story plays out with airlines founded roughly the same time that went through the same struggles of mergers, bankruptcies and crises.

Things inevitably change and all the legacy companies through global expansion become quite profitable. All these companies share the same history, assets, and strategies.

The local low cost company begins to inevitably flounder. This company does not share the same history, assets and has a different, almost confusing strategy

Question is: who is your true competitor? Which companies are competing with similar strategies?

Management eyes the struggling low cost carrier as a reason to lower wages

Do you believe them? Or do you look at the global companies that pay global wages?

I know who I would be eyeing as a target for a proper contract