Are Air Canada pilots the lowest paid in the world?

[cloak]

Naturally to fix the pay problem at Air Canada and improve its pay, FOUR LOOONNNG years of flat pay have to disappear! That's where it starts! At the very least, that will raise the scale by four years. Everyone seems to focus so much on US pay, but they forget that the starting pay there is around 100K and it moves up very quickly.

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

Contrary to my usual practice, since you were so "holier than thou" I point out that it appears you have been less than genuine all in the space of a few minutes! From the one hand you are making fun of the old ways of pilots helping groom at WestJet (among other airlines) seemingly rooting for WestJet pilots to go on strike, lead the way towards improving pilots pay, yet are ok with the practice of eating the young so long as it serves you! How do you know how long the rest of anyone's career is, and why not just pay everyone a fair wage?! "Do as I say, not as I do" much?!!

[TheAlcalde]

Naturally to fix the pay problem at Air Canada and improve its pay, FOUR LOOONNNG years of flat pay have to disappear! That's where it starts! At the very least, that will raise the scale by four years. Everyone seems to focus so much on US pay, but they forget that the starting pay there is around 100K and it moves up very quickly.

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

Contrary to my usual practice, since you were so "holier than thou" I point out that it appears you have been less than genuine all in the space of a few minutes! From the one hand you are making fun of the old ways of pilots helping groom at WestJet (among other airlines) seemingly rooting for WestJet pilots to go on strike, lead the way towards improving pilots pay, yet are ok with the practice of eating the young so long as it serves you! How do you know how long the rest of anyone's career is, and why not just pay everyone a fair wage?! "Do as I say, not as I do" much?!!

I am on flat pay and voted no….Along with 90% of my colleagues.

Dont forget the gloves while you’re grooming, nasty nasty germs out there. Better yet, gloves cost, just wash your hands after

[flyingcanuck]

Naturally to fix the pay problem at Air Canada and improve its pay, FOUR LOOONNNG years of flat pay have to disappear! That's where it starts! At the very least, that will raise the scale by four years. Everyone seems to focus so much on US pay, but they forget that the starting pay there is around 100K and it moves up very quickly.

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

4 year pay should be the 1st if not top 3 items on the list.

Sure we should make more than 150-200k after a while but this amount is livable. But if you can't afford rent/mortgage/a house/feed a family flying an airline machine, that is the real issue.

[altiplano]

I keep reading that people do not leave AC for other companies and they have at least a thousand westjet pilot applications alone. So back to supply and demand, why would they consider changing flat pay much less give pay raises when they can meet their current hiring demands. I’m not saying this is right but if you have enough people willing to accept minimum wage why would you cut into your margin?

Because pilots walking out and shutting down the airline will cut into your margins further.

We don't need to compare ourselves to anyone, we don't need to justify our demands, we only need to value ourselves and accept nothing less.

There is unity building in this membership.

When the ALPA roll out comes in the weeks ahead we will really see the momentum of that unity pick up.

When the MEC announces at the end of May that we have opted out of the 10 year deal and we are going for the enchilada we will really see it take off.

This will be the most important year in a generation for Air Canada Pilots', and possibly professional pilots across this country.

[Ash Ketchum]

Naturally to fix the pay problem at Air Canada and improve its pay, FOUR LOOONNNG years of flat pay have to disappear! That's where it starts! At the very least, that will raise the scale by four years. Everyone seems to focus so much on US pay, but they forget that the starting pay there is around 100K and it moves up very quickly.

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

4 year pay should be the 1st if not top 3 items on the list.

Sure we should make more than 150-200k after a while but this amount is livable. But if you can't afford rent/mortgage/a house/feed a family flying an airline machine, that is the real issue.

Exactly, flat pay should start at 90-100k and last only 2 years and not 4. That would be livable. Otherwise people are either getting into debt, having second jobs, or depending on their spouse to support them which shouldn't be the case.

[a2btrail]

I keep reading that people do not leave AC for other companies and they have at least a thousand westjet pilot applications alone. So back to supply and demand, why would they consider changing flat pay much less give pay raises when they can meet their current hiring demands. I’m not saying this is right but if you have enough people willing to accept minimum wage why would you cut into your margin?

Because pilots walking out and shutting down the airline will cut into your margins further.

We don't need to compare ourselves to anyone, we don't need to justify our demands, we only need to value ourselves and accept nothing less.

There is unity building in this membership.

When the ALPA roll out comes in the weeks ahead we will really see the momentum of that unity pick up.

When the MEC announces at the end of May that we have opted out of the 10 year deal and we are going for the enchilada we will really see it take off.

This will be the most important year in a generation for Air Canada Pilots', and possibly professional pilots across this country.

"This will be the most important year in a generation for Air Canada Pilots', and possibly professional pilots across this country."

Absolutely!

[a2btrail]

I keep reading that people do not leave AC for other companies and they have at least a thousand westjet pilot applications alone. So back to supply and demand, why would they consider changing flat pay much less give pay raises when they can meet their current hiring demands. I’m not saying this is right but if you have enough people willing to accept minimum wage why would you cut into your margin?

"why would they consider changing flat pay much less give pay raises when they can meet their current hiring demands."

Because our contract is up next year and they want to get ahead. Sure they may have enough candidates for now. But this is not sustainable forever. Air Canada has promised massive expansion globally over the next few years.... They offered to reduce flat pay by 2 years on last years MOA..... why?...... in return they want the pilot group to be flexible as in related to training capacity .... they are trying to increase more pilots through the system... so they dangled a carrot....

[rando]

Maybe AC is selling an idea of growing to a 6k+ pilot airline to attract naive people who think they will get an upgrade to left seat in 2 years.

Don’t be surprised if in 5 years it is still a 4K pilot airline and upgrades slow way down. Flair also promises massive expansion, we will see how that works out.

[ashtray]

Last month 41 pilots resigned from WestJet and their intake course had no shows

[averageatbest]

Last month 41 pilots resigned from WestJet and their intake course had no shows

As long as Flair doesn't collapse, WestJet's hiring issues will remain

[cloak]

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

Contrary to my usual practice, since you were so "holier than thou" I point out that it appears you have been less than genuine all in the space of a few minutes! From the one hand you are making fun of the old ways of pilots helping groom at WestJet (among other airlines) seemingly rooting for WestJet pilots to go on strike, lead the way towards improving pilots pay, yet are ok with the practice of eating the young so long as it serves you! How do you know how long the rest of anyone's career is, and why not just pay everyone a fair wage?! "Do as I say, not as I do" much?!!

I am on flat pay and voted no….Along with 90% of my colleagues.

Dont forget the gloves while you’re grooming, nasty nasty germs out there. Better yet, gloves cost, just wash your hands after

Charming, another grooming joke, I'm so intrigued! Regardless, those living in glass houses should not throw stones! The fact is there was no justification for even two years of flat pay, even worse when it was made four. I hope you and your ego do fit into the flight deck, IF in fact you do work for Air Canada, or even are a pilot!

[schnitzel2k3]

Maybe AC is selling an idea of growing to a 6k+ pilot airline to attract naive people who think they will get an upgrade to left seat in 2 years.

Don’t be surprised if in 5 years it is still a 4K pilot airline and upgrades slow way down. Flair also promises massive expansion, we will see how that works out.

Not good considering 4 aircraft we're seized today.

[ashtray]

Last month 41 pilots resigned from WestJet and their intake course had no shows

As long as Flair doesn't collapse, WestJet's hiring issues will remain

WestJet's labour issues will be resolved eventually. I would not leave WestJet for Flair. Will WestJet be here 30 years from now? Highly likely. Will Flair? Highly unlikely.

[crashpadcommute]

Because pilots walking out and shutting down the airline will cut into your margins further.

We don't need to compare ourselves to anyone, we don't need to justify our demands, we only need to value ourselves and accept nothing less.

There is unity building in this membership.

When the ALPA roll out comes in the weeks ahead we will really see the momentum of that unity pick up.

When the MEC announces at the end of May that we have opted out of the 10 year deal and we are going for the enchilada we will really see it take off.

This will be the most important year in a generation for Air Canada Pilots', and possibly professional pilots across this country.

"This will be the most important year in a generation for Air Canada Pilots', and possibly professional pilots across this country."

Absolutely!

Well said!!

[elite]

Naturally to fix the pay problem at Air Canada and improve its pay, FOUR LOOONNNG years of flat pay have to disappear! That's where it starts! At the very least, that will raise the scale by four years. Everyone seems to focus so much on US pay, but they forget that the starting pay there is around 100K and it moves up very quickly.

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

Oh please! Spare me the "you'll be so rich when you retire" pitch! What if there's a recession and lay-offs in a year? (Very likely) Why not pay people a fair wage from the beginning commensurate with their experience and responsibilities? I can understand a "probationary" pay of some sort for 6 months to a year, but anything more than that is not justified at all. Plus, even that has to be over a 100K, like U.S carriers.

[Fanblade]

Naturally to fix the pay problem at Air Canada and improve its pay, FOUR LOOONNNG years of flat pay have to disappear! That's where it starts! At the very least, that will raise the scale by four years. Everyone seems to focus so much on US pay, but they forget that the starting pay there is around 100K and it moves up very quickly.

Only one piece of the puzzle. Think beyond the first 4 years. 30 percent on 200k by the time you hit year 6 is a bigger fish, and something ALL of us will benefit from.

Four year flat pay has to go, but that’s ONE on a long list….and the rest of your career is going to be a lot longer than 4 years

Oh please! Spare me the "you'll be so rich when you retire" pitch! What if there's a recession and lay-offs in a year? (Very likely) Why not pay people a fair wage from the beginning commensurate with their experience and responsibilities? I can understand a "probationary" pay of some sort for 6 months to a year, but anything more than that is not justified at all. Plus, even that has to be over a 100K, like U.S carriers.

No one disagrees with you elite. The point is that there is a long list. Excluding one group to the benefit of others is what got us flat pay and the loss of a DB pension to begin with.

Everyone needs attention. Do some things need more attention than others? Yes. Is flat pay one of them? Yes.

Nevertheless overall improvements are needed.

[elite]

Well, that's better!! Honestly though, this should be number one, because by eliminating the four years of flat pay, the entire scale is lifted. I believe going forward the scale gets flatter, with smaller gains between steps. This is what's been happening in the U.S as well.

[a2btrail]

Well, that's better!! Honestly though, this should be number one, because by eliminating the four years of flat pay, the entire scale is lifted. I believe going forward the scale gets flatter, with smaller gains between steps. This is what's been happening in the U.S as well.

+1

[rudder]

https://stocks.apple.com/A8-mi-0bKQbWnxMGjWyvGcw

[FL030]

If benchmarks are deemed unmet is it possible we can strike this summer for maximum leverage? Or will negotiations be further out than that?