WANTED: Freelance Class 1 or 2 in Vancouver

RoadRager · Post by **RoadRager** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:22 pm

Hello,

I am looking for a freelance class 1 or 2 instructor in the Vancouver area (1 is preferred, as I want to do an instructor's rating after my commercial), who is not associated with a school. Boundary, Pitt, Langley, Abbots, or even Chilliwack is okay. I have an aircraft, and I just need to take lessons. I would prefer a freelancer, as opposed to a school. Please PM me if you are interested.

Thank-you

Joe1981 · Post by **Joe1981** » Mon May 01, 2006 10:45 pm

Why would you want to do an instructor rating with a freelancer- you have to work for a school as a Class 4 and what school will want to hire someone who didn't use a school - don't understand the logic here.

Ralliart · Post by **Ralliart** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:14 pm

Joel,

There can be huge advantages to flying with a freelance instructor, in many cases, a freelancer can bring much more experience and credentials than an instructor employed by an FTU.

There is no guarantee you will receive better instruction from an instructor employed by an FTU just because an FTU has an operating certificate, it all depends on the quality and experience of the individual instructor and how they can use this to provide you with a decent education.

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Tue May 02, 2006 1:41 am

I think Joes comment has less to do with a question of quality or not, and more to do with getting a job at the end of the day. Not to say you won’t with a freelancer, but most schools are more likely to higher their own class 4s than they are a stranger class 4…

JW · Post by JW » Tue May 02, 2006 5:13 pm

Walker is right, you would have a hard time finding a job as a class 4 instructor as most schools hire there own students.

JW

Ralliart · Post by **Ralliart** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:40 pm

justwork wrote:Walker is right, you would have a hard time finding a job as a class 4 instructor as most schools hire there own students.

This is less true lately with what seems like more of a demand for instructors, both experienced and inexperienced. Looks like a new Class 4 has more of a chance now finding a job somewhere after the training than anytime in the last few years.

Anyhow, if memory serves me correctly, Roadrager was interested in starting a new FTU, and thus could hire himself as a Class 4 for his own company, providing he also had a 2 or 1.

Cheers

polythene_pam · Post by **polythene_pam** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:27 pm

If you're in it to get a job, go to a school. Honestly, it really doesn't matter how much experience or how many credentials your instructor has.
You just need someone who can lay down the basics in a well organised manner. Get the rating, and then do your learning through your own experience. You'll learn a lot more by instructing and hangar talk than by paying some washed out pilot to fly with you for 50 hours or so.

If you're just in it for the experience, then by all means go find a freelance old washed out bush pilot if that's your thing.

I actually think that younger, less experienced pilots can often be better ab initio instructors. It seems counterintuitive, but I've seen examples on several occasions. I've known several old retired bush/firebomber/airline pilots take up flight instruction. Their students are often behind and rougher pilots when compared to the others... The reason? I think perhaps it's because the experienced pilots become too detached from how it feels to be totally new to aviation. Also, older bush pilots may have developed some habits specific to their specialty that may not transfer well to others. For example, a spray plane pilot/instructor had students with good hands and feet for aerobatics, but when it came to ifr flying, his students were all way to heavy on the pedals. His students also were often behind others because he was more likely to go do extra-curricular lessons which can be fun and enlightening, but not so useful.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue May 02, 2006 10:02 pm

Roadrager:

You are getting lots of advice here, but the bottom line is there are good, bad and the ugly bad flight instructors out there.

Contrary to what some here may try and convince you about young instructors at FTU's who have never flown outside the instruction business being superior that does not really make any sense.

If two instructors are equally good at teaching the one with tons of real world flying behind him / her obviously has more to offer.

The best way to find a good instructor is to ask aroud and then try them, it is your airplane and your money so you are free to get what you want....if you are not satisfied with a instructor you just get rid of him / her and find a better one.

By the way I'm one of those old semi retired bush / firebomber / airline / airshow display pilots and believe it or not I'm not washed out and still teach flying for a living.

Unfortunately all my Canadian licenses have lapsed as I work overseas on foreign licenses, however my clients think that my standards of teaching is worth what I charge as I have far more work than I want to do.

So the best thing for you to do is look around and I am sure you can find what you are loooking for.

Cat

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Tue May 02, 2006 11:50 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Unfortunately all my Canadian licenses have lapsed as I work overseas on foreign licenses, however my clients think that my standards of teaching is worth what I charge as I have far more work than I want to do.

So the best thing for you to do is look around and I am sure you can find what you are loooking for.

Cat

., as far as I am aware, if you meet currancy requirements, and can hold a Canadian medical, you are not lapsed.

I would be happy to help you if you wish to know your current status in Canada.

-Guy

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:15 am

Good morning TC Guy, thanks for the offer but I meant my flight instructors rating and my instrument rating are no longer valid.

I do hold my current medical because that is what validates my ATPL for my JAR approvals.

Did you read my explination of teaching without any pilot license?

I'm badly jet lagged still but finally getting some regular sleep.

Here is a flower farm in Holland.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ ... 010702.jpg

Cat

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:39 am

Boy, I have to disagree with much of what you posted Polythene Pam.

While there are some "washed out" instructors out there, some of them offered the best real life information I had recieved as a student pilot.

It was a long time ago but at the time, my school in Langley had ex military, bush and inexperienced instructors and all had much to offer and for different reasons.

This industry and your advancement in it is based on experience. After a successful lifetime in aviation, most guys are experienced, not "washed out".

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:04 am

" This industry and your advancement in it is based on experience. After a successful lifetime in aviation, most guys are experienced, not "washed out". "

Ssssshhhhh. gr8gazu quiet......we don't want the authorities reading this to hunt us old guys down and put us out to pasture the polythene-pam mentality needs to self reassure and live in the land of self agrandization to make up for their lack of background.

Just read the drivel about pilot skills that Pam describes....I fu.kin near fell off my chair laughing at Pam's description of an areobatic pilot not having the magic touch to fly instruments smoothly....

.....I bet I've got more time in cloud between the final approach fix and the runway than Pam has teaching period.

It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of some flight instructors.

Cat

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed May 03, 2006 10:28 am

I guess I'm another "washed-up" freelance flight instructor

This reminds me of a greybeard captain, who said to his know-it-all new co-pilot: "Son, your mother's legs have more time in the air than you do".

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Wed May 03, 2006 1:14 pm

Polypam....i agree with the above poster....some of the best instructors i have known are 50's ish class 1's with a varied background. And they were truly excellent instructors. while some of your comments may ring true in specific situations, in general, as a rule, I would say the opposite of your comments is true. I too am a part time instructor, so i have a good perspective. My other full time job takes me all over the world in different aircraft types.

I also disagree that you can learn everything you need from your own teaching experience. I have learned some of the best teaching techniques from the "old washed out" instructor. You can get your students through by learning from your own experience. But you can become a truly great instructor by learning from those with decades of experience. If you just want to be an average instructor and cruise through you year of teaching into the right seat of a turboprop, then fine go ahead. if you truly want to be a good instructor and maintain your instructor rating through your carreer, then find a "washed up old instructor"...usually, they are the best.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed May 03, 2006 1:24 pm

And an instructors rating means only one thing...you have jumped through some hoops and learned to teach to TC's view of how it is done.

Some of us have let our instructors rating lapse and moved on from that structured ab-initio mindset and teach without that piece of paper holding us back.

Cat

palmpilot · Post by **palmpilot** » Wed May 03, 2006 2:38 pm

For some of us we keep our instructor rating by jumping through hoops and teaching TC's way only when being looked at by TC and the rest of the time teach quite contrary to TC's useless mindset with that piece of paper without letting it hold us back.

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:57 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Good morning TC Guy, thanks for the offer but I meant my flight instructors rating and my instrument rating are no longer valid.

LOL... okay. Just wonderin' if you were being serious or... not.

Cat Driver wrote:I do hold my current medical because that is what validates my ATPL for my JAR approvals.

I also hear that in Europe they rape you for the cost of the medical.

Cat Driver wrote:Did you read my explination of teaching without any pilot license?

No, I didn't... haven't had a lot of extra time to surf the whole board the last couple weeks. Send me a link if you wish to hear my ideas.

As far as this thread goes... I have seen some exceptional Class 3 instructors, and some rather marginal Class 1's. Most of it has to do with attitude. Interestingly enough, I don't believe that skill in an aeroplane is important as ability to communicate when instructing ab-initio.

To group instructors into broad categories is probably not a good idea. As was said earlier, test drive a few of them before you make your decision. And, if you find it isn't working out, change instructors before you waste a bunch more money.

-Guy

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed May 03, 2006 8:27 pm

" I also hear that in Europe they rape you for the cost of the medical. "

Yeh, like everything in Europe it is over kill.

Three Doctors and the cost is 218.00 Euro ( about $300.00 Canadian ) Fortunately my clients pay for it.

And wouldn't you belieieve it TC sent me an invoice for $55.00 , they sure are optimistic if they think they will collect it.

A young pilot in Europe will pay 100,000 euro for a frozen ATPL and then go to a company such as Ryan Air and pay another 40,000 euro for a 737-800 type rating and their first job is straight into the right seat of a jet.

One of the pilots I fly with in Holland is a part time sim instructor and makes 600.00 euro per sim session teaching for Ryan Air.

I don't think I could teach jet sim because it would be like teaching nintindo...

Cat

polythene_pam · Post by **polythene_pam** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:15 pm

Upon rereading my post, I apologise for the tone. I in no way meant to insinuate that all older, more experienced pilots are washed out, nor did I intend to state that all younger class one instructors are somehow better than older, more experienced ones.

My point was that it's not necessary for somebody to have thousands of hours to be a good instructor. A young class 4 can often teach somebody how to taxi, takeoff, navigate, and land every bit as well as the ex-747/water bomber/bush/f-15 pilot.

I will never deny the vast knowledge that can be learned from experienced pilots. The thing is, that knowledge can be easily gained by tagging around hangars. Most experienced pilots are more than happy to share the knowledge they have for free. The knowledge can also be gained while copiloting for your various captains throughout your career.

This all is moot anyhow, since the original poster was merely looking for a freelance class 1 or 2 instructor for a rating. I happen to know a few fairly young freelance class ones with a little line experience, but not much. They are GREAT instructors. I also know several old timers who work for flight schools.

Above all, I was trying to get across the point that doing an instructor's rating with a freelance class 1 doesn't seem to be the best move if you plan on just taking that rating and finding a job with it. Perhaps the op knows somebody who is starting a flight school or who owns one and just needs the ticket.

Doing your rating with an older, more experienced pilot at a flight school is probably the best bet. A good flight school will have a few class 1 or 2 instructors, some younger, some older. Not only that, but the cfi likely oversees several instructor ratings every year, making him well versed in the tc requirements, dealing with tc, not to mention just good at instructing. A freelance instructor probably does one or two ratings a year, tops with few other class ones for a support line.

By the way, cat fucker:
"put us out to pasture the polythene-pam mentality needs to self reassure and live in the land of self agrandization to make up for their lack of background. ...
.....I bet I've got more time in cloud between the final approach fix and the runway than Pam has teaching period.

It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of some flight instructors"

I'm NOT a flight instructor, so I have no need to get into a PENIS-MEASURING contest with guys like you.

I have no need for self agrandization, and I am not an arrogant instructor.

I HAVE observed MANY times experienced spray pilots who have too-heavy feet, 737 captains who get a little confused flying single pilot ifr in imc, and guys with 20 years flying twin otters who simply can't grasp the ifr world. It's funny that you automatically assume I'm talking about you when I speak of experienced pilots. You're so vain. Not everything is about you, buddy.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu May 04, 2006 7:10 am

Pam, this tells us a lot about you.

First you backpedal like mad apoligizing for having made wrong headed opinions.

Then you post this:

" By the way, cat fucker: "

Is that the best you can come up with?

Cat

polythene_pam · Post by **polythene_pam** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:08 pm

Well, cat driver, it wasn't a backpedal. I apologised for my wording, which when read by some with remedial reading skills may have been misinterpreted to be a general comment about ALL experienced pilots, or, as the case may be, misinterpreted by some egomaniacs as being directed specifically at them. I apologised, as I realised later that some members of this forum require everything to be spelled out much more carefully, to avoid such misinterpretation. I also apologise for not providing the full proper disclaimers that certain paranoid cat drivers need in order to prevent them from assuming all posts are directed at themselves.

The cheap shot about your I made merely to echo your sophomoric insinuations about myself and personality, which, I might add, cannot be farther from the truth. To answer your question, NO, that was not the best I could come up with... But I think you threw all intelligent debate out the window with your baseless conjectures about my need to self-agrandize.

It seems your answer to any comment is to brag about your experience in an attempt to belittle those who disagree with you, while missing the entire point of the discussion.

Have you ever noticed how many threads you are involved in turn into pissing contests? Ever wonder why?

By the way: 2 years, 4400 posts? WOW, I guess you have much more experience spouting off on forums than I do. congrats. I have a suggestion: get a life.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:56 pm

Well polythene_pam maybe I can point out what it is about your comments that causes me to get just a little annoyed..

You posted this on the thread about fear of reprisal from TC.

" sounds like a personal problem.
//Your stories simply don't add up. Methinks there are parts that you are leaving out of your internet rants.
///obviously trolling, nothing to see here!! "

When you are ignorant of the facts and the subject it may be wise to not make such broad observations and insuniuations.

And this today:

" By the way: 2 years, 4400 posts? WOW, I guess you have much more experience spouting off on forums than I do. congrats. I have a suggestion: get a life. "

Yup, I post a lot here, it passes time as I run most of my business from home.

As far as getting a life goes well I wonder what you mean? My life for the last ten years has consisted of flying all over the planet and seeing some very different cultures while getting payed. In fact I'm still a bit jet lagged from my last trip.

Actually what I'm looking foward to is getting a less busy life.

Anyhow we will agree to disagree especially when you make off the cuff observations about things you obviously haven't the faintest clue about, like that sarcastic reference to my issues with TC being not as portrayed.

Cat