Company Morale

[canadian_aviator_4]

It’s difficult to say, but with the lack of progress in making any gains. Thing at jazz will only get worse before they improve.
The most we seem to get is a monthly or bimonthly email from the mec indicating that concerned parties are talking.
As 20-30 are hired monthly, 50-60 leave. So it’s a sinking ship at the moment.

[Inverted2]

If you are type rated on the Ejet and based in YYZ, there is zero logical reason to not leave Jazz, unless if you interview with mainline is completed already

NOT
A
SINGLE
REASON

Do you mean all Ejet pilots hired in YYZ in 2022/23 should go to Porter?

I would totally recommend it. If you get a few hundred PIC on the Jazz E175 Porter would likely take you aa DEC and you could be making pretty decent money in no time.

[rudder]

One of three things is happening:

1. One or more of the parties want the staffing related train wreck to happen, or

2. Unwillingness to develop and implement required remedies, or

3. Waiting for a multilateral solution

Depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist, opinion about which statement is more accurate will differ.

Regardless, there is an exodus happening. It is an existential problem that requires a timely response.

[Fanblade]

One of three things is happening:

1. One or more of the parties want the staffing related train wreck to happen, or

Entirely possible that AC may be looking for a breach of contract situation they could use to leverage chorus out. It was current AC management that chose to close down Sky and consolidate in Jazz. AC still requires a CPA provider.

2. Unwillingness to develop and implement required remedies, or

No one wants to pay. Management will exhaust all other possibilities first. A good example was managements request for unlimited domestic codeshare below 50 seats. But even this remedy was only a stop gap. It would have meant less revenue and likely a brand hit. AC still needs a CPA provider.

3. Waiting for a multilateral solution

Probably guaranteed. Multi party agreements are brutally slow and difficult. Four parties all competing to have their issues addressed without bending to the other three. Exodus aside management has already written off summer 2023 and won’t be concerned with staffing for summer 2024 for months. Is AC monitoring this properly or digging a hole? Either are possible. AC still needs a CPA provider.

Depending on whether you are an optimist or a pessimist, opinion about which statement is more accurate will differ.

Regardless, there is an exodus happening. It is an existential problem that requires a timely response.

Quote from the United MEC chair. Actually not true. I can’t possibly remember it exactly. But something like this.

“ We can’t make management do what they need to do. We can only make them wish they had”

We don’t run the business. We set rates.

AC still needs a CPA carrier.

[rudder]

AC still needs a CPA carrier.

True. But I don’t think it will look like the one that is there today.

I see no 50 seat jets. A domestic Q400 operation of perhaps 30-35 aircraft. A 76 seat jet fleet (J class config) of 25-45 aircraft. So that looks like an Express fleet of 55-80 aircraft. Current fleet 105.

I see a lot of current Express transborder capacity replaced by either or both UA codeshare and AC mainline metal. I see some domestic Express service replaced by mainline/Rouge, and smaller stations by some type of codeshare or sub-51 seat CPA.

The choke point is the pilot supply chain. AC is able to fill PIT classes. Jazz will struggle to do so in an environment of monumental Pilot attrition and poor entry level pay (that lasts 5 years).

There are solutions out there. Meanwhile, the clock is running and the damage will be done.

[Fanblade]

I see a lot of current Express transborder capacity replaced by either or both UA codeshare and AC mainline metal. I see some domestic Express service replaced by mainline/Rouge, and smaller stations by some type of codeshare or sub-51 seat CPA.

True. However this is coming at the expense of other mainline routes which is not a go forward strategy.

I have no Transborder JV numbers so this is supposition. The JV revenue share is based on capacity in the market. If AC’s percentage of capacity within the JV has reduced vs United so has AC potential revenue. United could be picking up AC’s slack. This may have been done as a last resort for summer 2023. Again not a go forward strategy.

What I’m saying is that AC certainly has levers to pull. But those levers cost money.

I agree that higher pilot costs will tip the scales toward mainline repatriation all over North America. So yes a smaller CPA carrier.

But they still need one.

We don’t make the business decisions. We just set rates.

[kiaszceski]

This is a controlled shrinking. Exactly like Encore, they let everybody leave and at one point the company came to the union and offered peanuts.

My guess is once we get to the 90-95 « crewable » tails the company will come to the union with a bandaid. That will give them the buffer to the 80 tails.

Have you considered Jazz willing to get rid of the embraer and keep only the 900 and Q? How many tails would that be?

[hithere]

When Jazz does decide to commit to one type of 76 seat jet I am 99% sure it will be the 175. It is much preferred by the customers

[Inverted2]

Who knows what the fleet replacement will be. The CRJ and E175 first gen are no longer being made and I don’t think they are making any more Q400 either.

[kiaszceski]

When Jazz does decide to commit to one type of 76 seat jet I am 99% sure it will be the 175. It is much preferred by the customers

How many training captains are left with 175 experience?
I heard most of them went to Porter.

[hithere]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

[Last Flight Out]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

Well said. You are not alone, more and more junior to mid range captains that planned on making a career at jazz I have talked with are preparing their logbooks to leave. It’s not just junior fos. But a wide range of pilots who have lost faith in the company, and management to provide any sort of benefit for working there.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

Update: just spoke to embraer pilot. The E1-175 is still being made mostly for SkyWest. So they are still available. He told me they just delivered the last E190-E1 to air Cairo. So the only E1 available is just the 175. I was mistaken about the production, my apologies.

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

[airway]

The E175 first generation is absolutely still being made and is still being ordered in high volumes by the US CPA carriers because it is scope compliant

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

Update: just spoke to embraer pilot. The E1-175 is still being made mostly for SkyWest. So they are still available. He told me they just delivered the last E190-E1 to air Cairo. So the only E1 available is just the 175. I was mistaken about the production, my apologies.

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot the other day who told me it’s not. you can probably buy decent ones around the globe with tons of hours left on frame.

They may be completing previous orders but I don’t think they taking on extra E1 orders

Embraer also canned/paused the e2-175 due to the cost savings not being that much different than the e1.

Update: just spoke to embraer pilot. The E1-175 is still being made mostly for SkyWest. So they are still available. He told me they just delivered the last E190-E1 to air Cairo. So the only E1 available is just the 175. I was mistaken about the production, my apologies.

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

Would make sense.

Not many options for aircraft below 78 seats and a certain weight. Possibly the ATR-72…. And of course the E1-175, but not sure how long embraer gonna pump those out given the production demand for the E2

[rudder]

Not sure if it’s still being made. Flew with embraer pilot th

He also said the E2-175 was above the allowable take off weight for US regional scope clauses. Even though the seat count could possibly be under.

I heard it is also too big for the AC scope as well. I don't know if that is size, weight or seat # though.

The E2-175 is scope compliant at AC. Meets ACPA max seating and max hull size scope limitations. However, E2-175 is not being produced for commercial delivery.

E175 still in production and the 86000lb version is scope compliant in US. The 89000lb version is scope compliant at AC (and Alaska Airlines).

[Canucklhead]

I came over from Sky with very high expectations of Jazz. I have been flying for a living now for over 30 years and thought Jazz would be the last stop in my career. I must say that in my 30 years as a pilot Jazz is by far the worst managed airline I have ever worked for. I am not here to shit on Jazz, I have met many great people at all levels of the operation. I believe the lack of leadership in management on the flight operations end of things is clearly fuelling the low morale we see here every day. Since the end of Covid when the shortage of pilots was again recognized and the mass exodus from Jazz to Air Canada and pretty much every other airline began we have heard ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM JAZZ to address the situation NOTHING. Of course this will lead to poor morale. Management is sending a clear message to the pilot group, IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE THEN HIT THE ROAD WE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY OF YOU. Many are off to AC as they should with a great career ahead of them. Others are going where the money is and the hope of a better lifestyle. I hope my departure as that of many of my peers will some how help those staying at Jazz achieve the renumeration and improved working conditions that they deserve. It’s hard working for any company that clearly does not care about its employees. For anyone thinking of Jazz, stay away. There are so many great opportunities out there right now. Jazz should be at the bottom of your list, Don’t get stuck at Jazz. Find a good fit anywhere but here.

I get the money thing, but what about the working conditions are bad? Talking to others that have left say the working conditions are good with a solid contract. Some that went to AC say their contract is terrible. Only thing better is the money eventually but the scheduling rules are as joke. Serious question not trying to troll.

[Canucklhead]

If you are type rated on the Ejet and based in YYZ, there is zero logical reason to not leave Jazz, unless if you interview with mainline is completed already

NOT
A
SINGLE
REASON

Unless you don’t believe the E195 operation at Porter will make it. I am in that camp. I don’t think the investors will keep putting money in forever. As others have pointed out, they have never made a dime on their Q400 operations except asset sales.

Suggest going over to the Porter thread on airliners. Pretty insightful comments from a few people that know what they’re talking about. They are not optimistic, put it that way.