Porter Airlines E195 ground school 2023

[THT]

Does Porter cover the hotel costs for off-base pilots during the training?
Is there a commute policy ?
It seems that the simulator is busy... so what is the actual schedule ?

thank you !

[Timetoflyagain]

…as there is only YYZ base(currently) for the E2, you’re hired for YYZ, training is in YYZ, so no hotel or per diem costs. Should you choose to live elsewhere, commuting on PD is available from day 1…jumpseat is free but if already taken then staff travel rates apply (AIF basically). There are currently E2 pilots living in YUL and YQT that I know of. As well, you can be an “official” commuter (when applied for and awarded) giving allowances if commuting flights are full, delayed, cancelled etc. Some have crash pads, some hotel/AirBB it.

As for the schedule, it’ll change as fleet grows…but will mature into a mix of single and multi day (2/3/4) pairings. Periodic crew surveys gauge “wants” and planning tries to accommodate as best they can taking costs/efficiencies etc into account, just as it is on the Q400, including minimizing DH sectors, long sits between flights etc. Min daily credit is 4.0, and we also have “Sched or better” credit.

[THT]

Thank you! I am quite surprised that the company doesn't provide the hotel during the training session for commuters... waiting to find a crash pad solution or something else.
I guess if I'm from YUL it will be at my own to pay the ticket for the 1st day of training. I asked all these questions but still have no reply... there are kind of evasive on these matters.

What about seniority? I mean there will come a time when all the Q400 pilots would bid for the E2, the new hired for the E2 will get pulled down? and eventually, when all the Q400 pilots have gone to the E2, the new hired pilots on the E2 will be transferred on the Q400?
Is there a protection on type ?

[Teeg]

it is assumed that if you get hired for a base (yyz in this case), you show up on your own dime. Anyone who wanted to be at a porter "outstation" took this risk.
If youre prepared to wait for a YUL E2 base then porter will pay for hotel coats!
One seniority list. If you get hired as an E2 FO with seniority # 1000, all 999 people more senior then you have the opportunity to become an E2 capt before you. Obviously Its dependent on upgradeability, lifestyle choice etc.
You dont "lose" your E2 seat or get demoted. If growth plateaus theres simply no upgrades until they become available.

[ant_321]

They won’t pay for a hotel for initial?!! Wow. I thought everyone did that.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Thank you! I am quite surprised that the company doesn't provide the hotel during the training session for commuters... waiting to find a crash pad solution or something else.
I guess if I'm from YUL it will be at my own to pay the ticket for the 1st day of training. I asked all these questions but still have no reply... there are kind of evasive on these matters.

What about seniority? I mean there will come a time when all the Q400 pilots would bid for the E2, the new hired for the E2 will get pulled down? and eventually, when all the Q400 pilots have gone to the E2, the new hired pilots on the E2 will be transferred on the Q400?
Is there a protection on type ?

They say you won't be kicked off your machine for a senior Q400 pilot. I don't believe that for a second. If circumstances dictate, I don't see how that won't happen, should things go from good to bad. The pay gap between Q and E2 pilots is so big that everyone will want to fly the Embraer. Also, don't forget, Porter now is dipping in Air Canada and Westjet's market. Be sure they will respond and the competition will be fierce. I'm not trying to be negative, but one needs to consider all aspects when deciding to go there. The pros and cons.

That E2 is a shiny new plane though, isn't it? I absolutely love it.

[Canadaflyer46]

They won’t pay for a hotel for initial?!! Wow. I thought everyone did that.

WJ is the only company I know of that is also this cheap. A lot of people might live a 2 hour drive from the simulator. Any airline that cared at all about quality of training would cover a hotel cost to ensure a new hire can concentrate on their course and not fighting traffic for hours each day.

[stabilizer]

Ran into a buddy I haven't seen in a while in T3 last week. He had an interview, but is seriously considering going elsewhere because of the no-hotel deal at Porter. It's definitely a pilot's market.

[Timetoflyagain]

Thank you! I am quite surprised that the company doesn't provide the hotel during the training session for commuters... waiting to find a crash pad solution or something else.
I guess if I'm from YUL it will be at my own to pay the ticket for the 1st day of training. I asked all these questions but still have no reply... there are kind of evasive on these matters.

What about seniority? I mean there will come a time when all the Q400 pilots would bid for the E2, the new hired for the E2 will get pulled down? and eventually, when all the Q400 pilots have gone to the E2, the new hired pilots on the E2 will be transferred on the Q400?
Is there a protection on type ?

They say you won't be kicked off your machine for a senior Q400 pilot. I don't believe that for a second. If circumstances dictate, I don't see how that won't happen, should things go from good to bad. The pay gap between Q and E2 pilots is so big that everyone will want to fly the Embraer. Also, don't forget, Porter now is dipping in Air Canada and Westjet's market. Be sure they will respond and the competition will be fierce. I'm not trying to be negative, but one needs to consider all aspects when deciding to go there. The pros and cons.

That E2 is a shiny new plane though, isn't it? I absolutely love it.

Thank you! I am quite surprised that the company doesn't provide the hotel during the training session for commuters... waiting to find a crash pad solution or something else.
I guess if I'm from YUL it will be at my own to pay the ticket for the 1st day of training. I asked all these questions but still have no reply... there are kind of evasive on these matters.

What about seniority? I mean there will come a time when all the Q400 pilots would bid for the E2, the new hired for the E2 will get pulled down? and eventually, when all the Q400 pilots have gone to the E2, the new hired pilots on the E2 will be transferred on the Q400?
Is there a protection on type ?

They say you won't be kicked off your machine for a senior Q400 pilot. I don't believe that for a second. If circumstances dictate, I don't see how that won't happen, should things go from good to bad. The pay gap between Q and E2 pilots is so big that everyone will want to fly the Embraer. Also, don't forget, Porter now is dipping in Air Canada and Westjet's market. Be sure they will respond and the competition will be fierce. I'm not trying to be negative, but one needs to consider all aspects when deciding to go there. The pros and cons.

That E2 is a shiny new plane though, isn't it? I absolutely love it.

Thank you! I am quite surprised that the company doesn't provide the hotel during the training session for commuters... waiting to find a crash pad solution or something else.
I guess if I'm from YUL it will be at my own to pay the ticket for the 1st day of training. I asked all these questions but still have no reply... there are kind of evasive on these matters.

What about seniority? I mean there will come a time when all the Q400 pilots would bid for the E2, the new hired for the E2 will get pulled down? and eventually, when all the Q400 pilots have gone to the E2, the new hired pilots on the E2 will be transferred on the Q400?
Is there a protection on type ?

They say you won't be kicked off your machine for a senior Q400 pilot. I don't believe that for a second. If circumstances dictate, I don't see how that won't happen, should things go from good to bad. The pay gap between Q and E2 pilots is so big that everyone will want to fly the Embraer. Also, don't forget, Porter now is dipping in Air Canada and Westjet's market. Be sure they will respond and the competition will be fierce. I'm not trying to be negative, but one needs to consider all aspects when deciding to go there. The pros and cons.

That E2 is a shiny new plane though, isn't it? I absolutely love it.

…when you’re offered a course date, and a base, it’s your decision. If hired for YHZ/YOW/YQT then yes, hotels etc are paid for, just as for recurrent training. If hired for YTZ/YYZ.. Factor in time to move, find a place etc. Not enough time…ask to defer. There are lots of current pilots living, depending on time of day, traffic etc, more than 2 hours away, and like for any duty..it’s up to them to report fit for duty. Commuter or not, maybe hotels should be provided for everyone for training…I commute from YUL, you have a new baby at home, she has a long drive in snow, he just got separated, I want a hotel just because everyone else gets one etc etc. Why is training any different than a run of the mill pairing? You commute for that too, expect a hotel?
Porter has made it quite clear that they are one airline..common employer, therefore 1 master seniority list, ( how many decades of fights have we seen about that!) so yes, a Q FO with 1200 hours hired 6 months ago will eventually surpass an E2 DEC hired today, rewarding that Q pilot rightfully, however when you consider the current number of pilots for 29 Q’s, scattered between 4 bases, a YUL base starting in 2024, future E2 bases in YHZ,YOW,YUL and 50+ tails minimum being added…the DEC hired today won’t, relatively speaking, lose much % ground as the list will grow at both ends, but that DEC E2 pilot’s pay check over those years may be cumulatively higher than if they went red or teal and climbed the ladder. Pay gap, sure…but is it any different than a Q in red or teal vs a red or teal 737? At least that Porter Q pilot doesn’t have to wonder if they will ever get a chance at “mainline”….they’re already there! If AC or WJ hired(I know, never happen) a DEC today, how many thousands could jump them..vs a few hundred..if that? Some may also choose to stay on the Q for base (YQT) or lifestyle reasons. More Q’s are contemplated as well, western bases etc.

…bumping down as you propose…categorically not allowed. Reduction in force off master list, transfer between Q and E only when position is open…(after standard 2 yr type lock) therefore a reduction in force means less positions available, therefore nothing open to transfer to.

Porter has been “dipping” into AC’s and WJ’s market for 16 years. WJ is retreating from the east, AC is seemingly slowly abandoning Jazz markets and Porter is growing everywhere…time will tell, as always, who made the right bets.

As with everything..pros and cons for sure….every time we hit V1……

[Chaxterium]

it’s up to them to report fit for duty.

I get what you're saying. But training is a different animal. Once you're on the line there is a lot less stress. During training you're trying to take in a lot of new information. You're trying to learn a new type, new company, new SOPs, etc. Not having to worry about spending money on accommodations can help reduce the stress of it all.

I worked for Georgian and even they put us up in a hotel. So the fact that Porter doesn't is honestly quite surprising to me.

And also driving in for a trip is fine because once you're done that trip you're going to drive home for a couple days off (ideally). Whereas for training you're back in the office at 8am the next morning.

The remainder of your points I totally agree with. I'm making the jump to Porter at the end of the month. I'm very excited and I can't wait to start.

Definitely bummed about the no hotel thing though.

[THT]

Thank you! I am quite surprised that the company doesn't provide the hotel during the training session for commuters... waiting to find a crash pad solution or something else.
I guess if I'm from YUL it will be at my own to pay the ticket for the 1st day of training. I asked all these questions but still have no reply... there are kind of evasive on these matters.

What about seniority? I mean there will come a time when all the Q400 pilots would bid for the E2, the new hired for the E2 will get pulled down? and eventually, when all the Q400 pilots have gone to the E2, the new hired pilots on the E2 will be transferred on the Q400?
Is there a protection on type ?

They say you won't be kicked off your machine for a senior Q400 pilot. I don't believe that for a second. If circumstances dictate, I don't see how that won't happen, should things go from good to bad. The pay gap between Q and E2 pilots is so big that everyone will want to fly the Embraer. Also, don't forget, Porter now is dipping in Air Canada and Westjet's market. Be sure they will respond and the competition will be fierce. I'm not trying to be negative, but one needs to consider all aspects when deciding to go there. The pros and cons.

That E2 is a shiny new plane though, isn't it? I absolutely love it.

Absolutely. Moreover Porter has no union yet, until one day a union steps in and changes the rules of the game.

Regarding the training, I agree that there are many new things to consider during this period of transition/adaptation (especially for commuters), a crash pad to find or a move to make ...
Also, if the simulator is busy, the risk of being on reserve during the training is just not possible for the commuters...

[THT]

How long does the ground school last?
Any details about the commute policy ?
Reserve availability ? 2 hours ?
Thank you

[Inverted2]

No hotel during training? Major deal breaker right there. The simulator is right in the middle of the city too.

Just say call me back when you have hotels and meal allowance provided.

[THT]

I know, that's ridiculous how they consider Pilots...
I mean, it's the minimum to provide an hotel for the initial for commuter pilot since they have a commute policy apparently...

Do you know where is situated the ground school in YYZ ? Looking for an AirBNB...

[Timetoflyagain]

I know, that's ridiculous how they consider Pilots...
I mean, it's the minimum to provide an hotel for the initial for commuter pilot since they have a commute policy apparently...

Do you know where is situated the ground school in YYZ ? Looking for an AirBNB...

E2 company indoc, ground school are split between FlightSafety Toronto and YTZ. Sim is either FSI Toronto or FSI Paris.

[twa22]

I know, that's ridiculous how they consider Pilots...
I mean, it's the minimum to provide an hotel for the initial for commuter pilot since they have a commute policy apparently...

Do you know where is situated the ground school in YYZ ? Looking for an AirBNB...

E2 company indoc, ground school are split between FlightSafety Toronto and YTZ. Sim is either FSI Toronto or FSI Paris.

What???? So if someone is a commuter who happens to be based in Toronto, not only are they not provided hotel, but they have to figure out their transportation between FSI Toronto and YTZ? Really? Is this made clear ahead of time? FSI Toronto to YTZ is a terrible commute, so given that that someone who doesn't live in Toronto is on the hook for a hotel, what are they supposed to do about transport? If I'm booking a hotel near YTZ, getting to FSI Toronto is a pain with a car, nevermind without, so do you also expect those who now have to pay for Airbnb or hotel to also rent a car?

[Timetoflyagain]

What???? So if someone is a commuter who happens to be based in Toronto, not only are they not provided hotel, but they have to figure out their transportation between FSI Toronto and YTZ? Really? Is this made clear ahead of time? FSI Toronto to YTZ is a terrible commute, so given that that someone who doesn't live in Toronto is on the hook for a hotel, what are they supposed to do about transport? If I'm booking a hotel near YTZ, getting to FSI Toronto is a pain with a car, nevermind without, so do you also expect those who now have to pay for Airbnb or hotel to also rent a car?
[/quote]

…if you’re based out of Toronto but as an official commuter, hotels, per diems, taxi/Uber is provided. If you’re based in Toronto and therefore not an official commuter (some live as far as Orillia, London, Trenton, or yes, flyin from Ottawa, Montreal, Windsor etc) then how you get to a duty assignment is up to you..why should one pilot be coddled because they choose to live somewhere else when those that live in the GTA deal with traffic and everything else, good and bad, that goes with living here. We all have choices, don’t like it? Don’t apply. Don’t like flat pay? Don’t like not knowing if you’ll have a spot at mainline? Don’t like a 10 year wait to upgrade? Don’t like being on reserve for years? Don’t like being sent to Regina or QuebecCity for the winter? Don’t like paying union dues while getting shafted by both the union and the company? Each company has its pros and cons, and they are different for each person’s circumstances.

[twa22]

…if you’re based out of Toronto but as an official commuter, hotels, per diems, taxi/Uber is provided. If you’re based in Toronto and therefore not an official commuter (some live as far as Orillia, London, Trenton, or yes, flyin from Ottawa, Montreal, Windsor etc) then how you get to a duty assignment is up to you..

You said if you're based out of Toronto bus as an official commuter you get hotels, per diems, taxi... then you said if you're based in Toronto and not an official commuter, then give an example of people flying from Ottawa, then how they get to duty is up to them... so which one is it? That statement was rather confusing

why should one pilot be coddled because they choose to live somewhere else when those that live in the GTA deal with traffic and everything else, good and bad, that goes with living here. We all have choices, don’t like it? Don’t apply. Don’t like flat pay? Don’t like not knowing if you’ll have a spot at mainline? Don’t like a 10 year wait to upgrade? Don’t like being on reserve for years? Don’t like being sent to Regina or QuebecCity for the winter? Don’t like paying union dues while getting shafted by both the union and the company? Each company has its pros and cons, and they are different for each person’s circumstances.

As far as i'm aware, every major 705 pays for hotel during initial training even if your training is at you're selected base...

A large swath choose to commute because of the likely fact that Porter doesn't pay enough, especially on the Q400... you're recent salary bump which went from 42k to 48k for YR1 FO is an absolute joke and everyone knows it... but it's ok, we are coddled up because some choose to live outside of the most expensive city in Canada, where the company doesn't even pay for parking that can cost up to 30 bucks a day near YTZ... sure, the E2 FO pay is slightly better, and i'm sure parking is included at YYZ, but still, doesn't excuse the no hotel for initial sim

I'm glad the OP brought up this subject, hopefully more people notice this thread, because it's not right

[ant_321]

It’s not even about the commuters. When I made the move to YYZ, half of my course we planning on moving to YYZ but were coming from other places. If I was offered the job based in YYZ but not provided any accommodations for the course I wouldn’t have been able to take the job. I knew nobody in YYZ and there’s no way I could have afforded to get a hotel while I found an apartment. I work for an airline that is famously cheap but even they aren’t that cheap.

[flyinhigh]

Holy crap this is not the end of the world guys and gals.

Yes, there is other airlines that also do not pay for hotels during training. Guess what, one of those other companies makes you groom the plane while on staff travel (sounds F$&kin, amazing).

If you’re a commuter ( like myself) you’ll have to get a crash pad anyway, so there’s your accommodation taken care of. I have zero stress about this minor clause as long term it’s worth it. If that’s a deal breaker, we’ll go somewhere else than.

Ground school is close to YYZ (not YTZ) and FSI. 90% of new hires on the E2 are going to Paris right now for training, but this will most likely stop in the coming months.