Is Onex sniffing around?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
Is Onex sniffing around?
I’ve had a few people from team teal tell me Onex is buying AT? Not trying to start a fire storm, but I’m interested to see what other people are hearing. I hope it’s not true, I wouldn’t want a good company like AT to end up becoming the gong-show WJ seems to be.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:11 pm
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
I suppose all is possible. However, with Sunwing now no longer an independent competitor, and with the imminent demise of Flair, the competitive landscape has changed a lot in a short time. A WJ-AT consolidation will be viewed much more skeptically by the competition bureau especially given that there is significant market overlap, mostly in Sun destinations.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that Hector is going to be running three Honda civics with spoon engines, and on top of that, he just went into Harry’s and bought three t66 turbos with nos, and a motec exhaust system.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:47 pm
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
I can't see the value for Onex, unless a sweetheart deal is reached to significantly reduce the approximately $1.7 Billion in debt that Transat carries.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:13 pm
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Why would Onex want all that debt with an incompatible fleet type? No disrespect to AT, but they were struggling mightily prior to Covid.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
All interesting points ..FlyingMonkey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:46 am Why would Onex want all that debt with an incompatible fleet type? No disrespect to AT, but they were struggling mightily prior to Covid.
I don’t think AT was struggling before the pandemic, they had a lot of money in the bank and low debt before covid drained them and reversed their fortunes. I think the company is on the right track and the fleet going forward is going to be beneficial .. what does the future hold? No idea .. I would suspect the route structure and European slots are fairly valuable and for as much as people keep betting against them, they’re still here and the pay checks come on time.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Hopefully they dont. Westjet and Sunwing are both disasters, it’s better they dont touch Transat.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Do you really think a corporation that buys another corporation does it only when it’s debt free ? There are no airline debt free. AC has many billions in debt, Sunwing has hundreds of millions in debt towards the government yet Westjet bought them.safetyfirst123 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:37 am I can't see the value for Onex, unless a sweetheart deal is reached to significantly reduce the approximately $1.7 Billion in debt that Transat carries.
I find it really funny that people mention debt only when it’s about Transat, yet all the others are full of debt.
And before you bring the comparison with pre pandemic, Transat today vs pre pandemic are two different beast. Much leaner overall and yet management says it’s still leaning it more and working on it. People really underestimate them
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
If a small sample is enough, ONEX might as well be EIC. I wouldn't want anything to do with them.
-
- Rank 2
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:47 pm
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
It's not because Transat has debt, but rather the amount of debt and its ability to pay it off. Even in their latest Q1 2023 Report, they state "As at January 31, 2023, a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the Corporation’s ability to continueLatitude wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:06 pmDo you really think a corporation that buys another corporation does it only when it’s debt free ? There are no airline debt free. AC has many billions in debt, Sunwing has hundreds of millions in debt towards the government yet Westjet bought them.safetyfirst123 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:37 am I can't see the value for Onex, unless a sweetheart deal is reached to significantly reduce the approximately $1.7 Billion in debt that Transat carries.
I find it really funny that people mention debt only when it’s about Transat, yet all the others are full of debt.
And before you bring the comparison with pre pandemic, Transat today vs pre pandemic are two different beast. Much leaner overall and yet management says it’s still leaning it more and working on it. People really underestimate them
as a going concern"
I love Air Transat, they are far and above what Sunwing and Westjet currently offer, but the reality is that their debt is well above any other airline of similar size.
-
- Rank 7
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
You're quoting "caution regarding forward looking statements", the part of the report that the lawyers write. Not saying it's not true but quoting just that casts some shade on the great improvements and positive results of this quarter.safetyfirst123 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:52 amIt's not because Transat has debt, but rather the amount of debt and its ability to pay it off. Even in their latest Q1 2023 Report, they state "As at January 31, 2023, a material uncertainty exists that may cast significant doubt on the Corporation’s ability to continueLatitude wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:06 pmDo you really think a corporation that buys another corporation does it only when it’s debt free ? There are no airline debt free. AC has many billions in debt, Sunwing has hundreds of millions in debt towards the government yet Westjet bought them.safetyfirst123 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:37 am I can't see the value for Onex, unless a sweetheart deal is reached to significantly reduce the approximately $1.7 Billion in debt that Transat carries.
I find it really funny that people mention debt only when it’s about Transat, yet all the others are full of debt.
And before you bring the comparison with pre pandemic, Transat today vs pre pandemic are two different beast. Much leaner overall and yet management says it’s still leaning it more and working on it. People really underestimate them
as a going concern"
I love Air Transat, they are far and above what Sunwing and Westjet currently offer, but the reality is that their debt is well above any other airline of similar size.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Be an interesting merger of Pilot groups. What seems like one of the happiest groups (Transat) merging with the unhappiest group. For the sake of the Transat group I hope it doesn’t happen.
-
- Rank 7
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Westjet was one of the happiest groups once upon a time. Seems like the switch from one base and ports to three bases and no ports was the beginning of the end.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
There have been speculations about this for some time, and it does present some benefits. WestJet which now has better access to the Quebec market, will have even better access and gain nearly 20% presence in the Atlantic market. Concerns of the Competition Bureau will likely not be as many as they were with AC and concerns of Europeans which had to do with EU market share and their airport slots, will not exist in this case as WestJet has little of either and certainly nothing comparable with AC. In fact, overnight is born a new national airline that can improve competition to EU and elsewhere and choices for Canadians. It will also be a lifeline for Transat, so likely the federal and provincial governments will endorse it.
The question remains over the value of the deal for WestJet and Onex. Although overnight Onex will have the true national airline that they have wanted for over two decades, will it be "cheaper" and "easier" to go this way, with all the debt that AT has, the cost and troubles of mergers of two seemingly "different" types and workforce, or will doing it alone and growing naturally and dynamically? I feel it will depend on the market conditions and the availability of human and other resources to make it happen. Ane most importantly, is that still what Onex wants.
The question remains over the value of the deal for WestJet and Onex. Although overnight Onex will have the true national airline that they have wanted for over two decades, will it be "cheaper" and "easier" to go this way, with all the debt that AT has, the cost and troubles of mergers of two seemingly "different" types and workforce, or will doing it alone and growing naturally and dynamically? I feel it will depend on the market conditions and the availability of human and other resources to make it happen. Ane most importantly, is that still what Onex wants.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:28 pm
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
AT can't pay their covid debt at their current revenues though? I doubt AC is in that boatLatitude wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:06 pmDo you really think a corporation that buys another corporation does it only when it’s debt free ? There are no airline debt free. AC has many billions in debt, Sunwing has hundreds of millions in debt towards the government yet Westjet bought them.safetyfirst123 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:37 am I can't see the value for Onex, unless a sweetheart deal is reached to significantly reduce the approximately $1.7 Billion in debt that Transat carries.
I find it really funny that people mention debt only when it’s about Transat, yet all the others are full of debt.
And before you bring the comparison with pre pandemic, Transat today vs pre pandemic are two different beast. Much leaner overall and yet management says it’s still leaning it more and working on it. People really underestimate them
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
No matter the actual amount of debt; there is absolutely no stress as the Quebec Gov will always stand behind: 100% garanteed. It’s like AC…Transat will never collapseLatitude wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:06 pmDo you really think a corporation that buys another corporation does it only when it’s debt free ? There are no airline debt free. AC has many billions in debt, Sunwing has hundreds of millions in debt towards the government yet Westjet bought them.safetyfirst123 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 7:37 am I can't see the value for Onex, unless a sweetheart deal is reached to significantly reduce the approximately $1.7 Billion in debt that Transat carries.
I find it really funny that people mention debt only when it’s about Transat, yet all the others are full of debt.
And before you bring the comparison with pre pandemic, Transat today vs pre pandemic are two different beast. Much leaner overall and yet management says it’s still leaning it more and working on it. People really underestimate them
One thing I can add is that Transat is going through major positive transformations internally and they seem to have no limit on the money available to make the airline more efficient; it definitely is not the same airline as pre-covid.
-
- Rank 5
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2022 10:13 am
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Ah yes, the "true national airline" that gives the middle finger to half of the country. It's a great business strategy.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
There is one clown who’s been giving the middle finger to the entire country for many years and his business is still workingaverageatbest wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 4:12 pmAh yes, the "true national airline" that gives the middle finger to half of the country. It's a great business strategy.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
AT has far too much debt to be worth any sort of acquisition. WJ had 1.5 billion in cash when they were acquired whereas AT is the exact opposite.
For reference AT has a market cap of 120million. EIC bought Carson for 60 million so even the public market doesn’t put much value in AT.
For reference AT has a market cap of 120million. EIC bought Carson for 60 million so even the public market doesn’t put much value in AT.
Re: Is Onex sniffing around?
Transat can and probably will remain independent for years to come. They have a very loyal customer following, will be forever propped up by the Quebec government and I think being bought out by ONEX would actually hurt their brand.