Yet another discussion by experts in their field..

[Aviatard]

How about we take US states that locked down vs ones who didn't. The results were all over the place. In both ways not corresponding with those who locked down or the severity of the lockdowns or when they were implemented.

This Scientific America article talks about a study that showed conservative counties had a higher death rate than liberal ones:

Sehgal and his colleagues found that through October 2021, majority-Republican counties experienced 72.9 additional deaths per 100,000 people relative to majority-Democratic counties. To the researchers’ surprise, however, vaccine uptake explained only 10 percent of the difference. The finding suggests that differences in COVID outcomes are driven by a combination of factors, including the likelihood of, say, engaging in unmasked social events or in-person dining, Sehgal says. By February 2022 the COVID death rate in all counties Donald Trump won in the 2020 presidential election was substantially higher than in counties that Joe Biden won

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -counties/

[khedrei]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... -by-state/

Funny, the raw numbers disagree with your bullshit article.

Notice how Florida which was open and free for virtually all of the pandemic fared statistically similar to new york who was making children eat lunch on buckets spaced 10 feet apart outside in near freezing temperatures.

It doesnt take a medical degree to understand that a persons outcome depended almost entirely on their health and age if they got sick. Not whether there was stickers on the floor or plexiglass at the cash register.

There is nothing you can say that will make what they did and what you cheered on, ok.

In the US, people voted with their feet. People vacated unfreeze states and moved to free states. The numbers are there and easy to find.

[rando]

Don't try to show a liberal objective truths or they will stop debating.

[newlygrounded]

Don't try to show a liberal objective truths or they will stop debating.

Not sure how this topic about strikes and medicals turned into a shit slinging contest. Have you considered sunlight and being outside helped stop the spread? NY is cold so people are very close during the winter months.

[khedrei]

Don't try to show a liberal objective truths or they will stop debating.

Not sure how this topic about strikes and medicals turned into a shit slinging contest. Have you considered sunlight and being outside helped stop the spread? NY is cold so people are very close during the winter months.

You are right that this veered off topic, but while were here...

maybe you can come up with some bullshit reason why Montana did better than new york? It's cold there isnt it?

[newlygrounded]

Don't try to show a liberal objective truths or they will stop debating.

Not sure how this topic about strikes and medicals turned into a shit slinging contest. Have you considered sunlight and being outside helped stop the spread? NY is cold so people are very close during the winter months.

You are right that this veered off topic, but while were here...

maybe you can come up with some bullshit reason why Montana did better than new york? It's cold there isnt it?

This isn't my fight but population density might have something to do with it.

[cdnavater]

Well since you appear to be on the side that thinks the response was necessary, how about you show me a single life that was saved due to lockdowns. Im just looking for ONE person who is alive today that would otherwise not have been had we not locked down. I mean, our amazing government must have had some virologists giving them advice. The evidence must be out there to support it that you could find for me. Cause I can't. Im just looking for one name.

When it comes to gain there couldn't be enough in our wildest dreams to make the cost worth it. We will never recover from the damage that was done from this. Maybe our great grand children will....

Is this guy for real?
Show me one baby that was prevented from being born due to wearing a condom, just one who would have been born except for the condom and is now not born?
How do you prove that, someone who was guaranteed to die but didn’t die, are you serious.
Show me a flight that would’ve crashed but didn’t because of the rules, surely every single flight would’ve crashed except for the rules, the example of ridiculous logic are everywhere there is a preventative measure put in place for safety, you can’t prove it worked, you have to assume it could’ve or would’ve been worse had we not!

Actually you can prove it worked. We do this all the time. We study accidents, figure out likely causes, come up with well thought out ways to deal with them and change rules accordingly. Then do more studies. If those types of accidents go down, that's pretty good evidence that the new rule worked. So while my anecdote was meant to be cleaver, the details are better explained here.

What did we do when it came to lockdowns? We did no studies, no risk benefit analysis, no thought of potential damage, no thought about a sensible controlled application. Just made up arbitrary nonsensical rules and numbers of how many people you could have over or distance to stand apart and made it sound virtuous. We burned down the house to get rid of the wasps nest and then when someone questioned it we said "well we HAVE to do something what would you do instead? Do you have a better idea?"

And then, when all these non thought out policies didn't work, when cases were still going up, people were still dying "WITH" covid, the solution... do it harder. Lock down more. When that didn't work, do it even harder. Arrest people. Take away peoples will to live until they comply. Evidence? Who needs that crap! Its science!

I didn’t say whether I supported or didn’t support the lockdowns, you said you were looking for one life that was saved because of the policies, not me!
I said you can’t prove that one way or another, the only definitive way would be to take an identical population and demographic and geographic location, lock one down and not the other, then do a study, who had time for studies, but then you’d have a close comparison.
Your problem is with the reactions of worldwide governments, which by the way were very similar, some more strict than others but very few did nothing and those countries had worse outcomes.
You should read the material on the Spanish flu, not many policies were different this time around, main difference being air travel connecting the world but the lockdowns and school closures etc, very much the same.
The other key difference, although I’m sure there were whack jobs back then too, they didn’t have the platform they have now

[khedrei]

Is this guy for real?
Show me one baby that was prevented from being born due to wearing a condom, just one who would have been born except for the condom and is now not born?
How do you prove that, someone who was guaranteed to die but didn’t die, are you serious.
Show me a flight that would’ve crashed but didn’t because of the rules, surely every single flight would’ve crashed except for the rules, the example of ridiculous logic are everywhere there is a preventative measure put in place for safety, you can’t prove it worked, you have to assume it could’ve or would’ve been worse had we not!

Actually you can prove it worked. We do this all the time. We study accidents, figure out likely causes, come up with well thought out ways to deal with them and change rules accordingly. Then do more studies. If those types of accidents go down, that's pretty good evidence that the new rule worked. So while my anecdote was meant to be cleaver, the details are better explained here.

What did we do when it came to lockdowns? We did no studies, no risk benefit analysis, no thought of potential damage, no thought about a sensible controlled application. Just made up arbitrary nonsensical rules and numbers of how many people you could have over or distance to stand apart and made it sound virtuous. We burned down the house to get rid of the wasps nest and then when someone questioned it we said "well we HAVE to do something what would you do instead? Do you have a better idea?"

And then, when all these non thought out policies didn't work, when cases were still going up, people were still dying "WITH" covid, the solution... do it harder. Lock down more. When that didn't work, do it even harder. Arrest people. Take away peoples will to live until they comply. Evidence? Who needs that crap! Its science!

I didn’t say whether I supported or didn’t support the lockdowns, you said you were looking for one life that was saved because of the policies, not me!
I said you can’t prove that one way or another, the only definitive way would be to take an identical population and demographic and geographic location, lock one down and not the other, then do a study, who had time for studies, but then you’d have a close comparison.
Your problem is with the reactions of worldwide governments, which by the way were very similar, some more strict than others but very few did nothing and those countries had worse outcomes.
You should read the material on the Spanish flu, not many policies were different this time around, main difference being air travel connecting the world but the lockdowns and school closures etc, very much the same.
The other key difference, although I’m sure there were whack jobs back then too, they didn’t have the platform they have now

I resemble that remark.

To the mods, thanks for reposting and cleaning up the topic. I apologize for my part in it going off topic, but you could have spared the sarcasm.

[khedrei]

Don't try to show a liberal objective truths or they will stop debating.

Not sure how this topic about strikes and medicals turned into a shit slinging contest. Have you considered sunlight and being outside helped stop the spread? NY is cold so people are very close during the winter months.

Oh oh oh.... now do Arizona.

Blue state, hot, dry. Supposedly the highest covid deaths per 100k in the whole country.

How can that be? Aviatard just said the democratic counties fared better than republican ones....

[newlygrounded]

Don't try to show a liberal objective truths or they will stop debating.

Not sure how this topic about strikes and medicals turned into a shit slinging contest. Have you considered sunlight and being outside helped stop the spread? NY is cold so people are very close during the winter months.

Oh oh oh.... now do Arizona.

Blue state, hot, dry. Supposedly the highest covid deaths per 100k in the whole country.

How can that be? Aviatard just said the democratic counties fared better than republican ones....

Dude I don't care, if you're curious do the research yourself.

[khedrei]

Dude, then why did you post what you did?

[Aviatard]

Oh oh oh.... now do Arizona.

Blue state, hot, dry. Supposedly the highest covid deaths per 100k in the whole country.

How can that be? Aviatard just said the democratic counties fared better than republican ones....

I don’t know whether cold or heat makes any difference but I’d like to point out a few things:

Arizona is a state and not a county. It has 15 counties. Ten of those were majority Republican in the last election. The overall vote was split almost evenly with democrats winning a slight edge. So there were a lot of Republican voters in Arizona.

I didn’t say that democratic counties fared better, I posted an article that said that.

You called that same article a bullshit article yet here you are trying to use it to win an argument over effects of temperature on covid outcomes.

You also stated that I “cheered on” lockdowns. This is nonsense. You made that up.

Seems you’re willing to say anything to be right and win an argument. If honesty and truthfulness don’t matter then you have no credibility.

[TG]

I am in fact a real boy....

Interesting that you think its acceptable to continue to implement lockdiwns without evidence that they worked. Somehow this method of doing things was never acceptable until 2020. We never made knowingly destructive widespread arbitrary public policy decisions without evidence. Well not until 2020.

How about we take US states that locked down vs ones who didn't. The results were all over the place. In both ways not corresponding with those who locked down or the severity of the lockdowns or when they were implemented.

So you think your mother was saved by closing down my workplace and the workplaces of many others? You are aware that if she was at such risk she could have stayed home right? No need to destroy everyone else's lives. Its not really that I dont believe she was saved, its that I dont buy it. You would have said any name. My point was that anyone who was at risk could have been mitigated in other ways.

You can call me whatever Karen name you want. It won't change your level of mass psychosis. You're so brainwashed they could have told you to shower in bleach before going into the grocery store and you would have.

I can name plenty of peoples lives that were ruined or damaged severely due to this nonsense. Can't think of anyone who is better off today aside from the most very rich who are now richer.

You literally gasped F@ck all of what I wrote in the other tread (Before it was split up by mods!?)

F@ck! All!

And where did I say it's acceptable to continue to implement lockdown!? As far as I know Covid is behind us. Do you see it surging back!? If it does it will mean that lockdowns, restrictions and vaccinations didn't do their job.
My mother is a stay at home person due to health except to get groceries. She managed to get a mild version of Covid end of last year, mild most probably due to her vaccination still being effective and a "tuned down" version of the virus from the one who popped out end of 2019. So put two and two together if you can. If not prove me that a turtle is not orbiting around Jupiter or have a look at the various meaning of "Butterfly effect"

It's a single example. Yes! Younger and healthier people like you and me are less susceptible (Except economically) But not totally exempted.


Give it a rest.

[khedrei]

Oh oh oh.... now do Arizona.

Blue state, hot, dry. Supposedly the highest covid deaths per 100k in the whole country.

How can that be? Aviatard just said the democratic counties fared better than republican ones....

I don’t know whether cold or heat makes any difference but I’d like to point out a few things:

Arizona is a state and not a county. It has 15 counties. Ten of those were majority Republican in the last election. The overall vote was split almost evenly with democrats winning a slight edge. So there were a lot of Republican voters in Arizona.

I didn’t say that democratic counties fared better, I posted an article that said that.

You called that same article a bullshit article yet here you are trying to use it to win an argument over effects of temperature on covid outcomes.

You also stated that I “cheered on” lockdowns. This is nonsense. You made that up.

Seems you’re willing to say anything to be right and win an argument. If honesty and truthfulness don’t matter then you have no credibility.

I didnt make anything up. I used "cheered on" as a euphemism. The government ended the rules and from what I was told, you wanted them to continue where you worked. You seemed to enjoy telling people what to do. Screaming in their face for trying to use a bathroom without a mask. Maybe you will claim that you just wanted to follow the rules, or keep people safe. To me that was the problem with what happened. These rules bread too many people who wanted to flex their muscles and police others. Maybe you were ok with that? Maybe you enjoyed telling people what they "should" do. I found it shameful. So no, I dont think "cheered on" was a terrible choice of words nor was it inaccurate.

I care about truth very much. Thats partially why I'm not anonymous on here. Anyone who wants to find me probably can. Im not ashamed of who I am and will stand by my values. Even if my opinions cost me. How many people can say that?

In another thread, I stated something true and I asked you a very direct question, where you accused Jerry of lying. I havent received an answer.

I havent made amy claims here that weren't true and if I did I admit my mistakes.

I wasn't using your article to defend my points I was using the raw numbers from the link I posted which were divided by state. For the record I think all covid numbers were inflated by an astronomical factor but there were no real differences between states that locked down and ones that didn't when it came to cases and deaths. The virus was going to circulate. The difference was in whether those states would have their economies shredded and lives of children ruined by the time they finished. We are now living that in Canada because the whole country is stupid.

A few years ago the idea of living in a red state bothered me because I am not a conservative. Now, I wouldnt go near California or New York. Those places scare me.

[Aviatard]

The government ended the rules and from what I was told, you wanted them to continue where you worked. You seemed to enjoy telling people what to do. Screaming in their face for trying to use a bathroom without mask.

You were told wrong and at no time did I scream in anybody’s face for using a bathroom without a mask. Unless this is another euphemism. And by euphemism I mean using other words to imply something much worse and that also didn’t happen.

[khedrei]

I saw it with my own two eyes. You can deny it all you want. It happened. It was shameful to watch.

I didnt peg you for a liar.

[rookiepilot]

The government ended the rules and from what I was told, you wanted them to continue where you worked. You seemed to enjoy telling people what to do. Screaming in their face for trying to use a bathroom without mask.

You were told wrong and at no time did I scream in anybody’s face for using a bathroom without a mask. Unless this is another euphemism. And by euphemism I mean using other words to imply something much worse and that also didn’t happen.

You probably didn’t.

IMO you’re just a hypocrite.

Throughout the whole covid period to the present day, on every thread, you’ve ripped every Conservative statement, no matter how innocuous (despite them being out of power, federally) and given a pass to every single example of Liberal party poor decision making — this is putting it mildly (while they have been in power all along).

In a debate, you get judged not only for what you say, but what you don’t say. You don’t get to give one side a blind free pass. Unless, of course, you’re just a partisan hypocrite, and the spin of being an unbiased observer, is just that.

Silence is agreement and endorsement.

[khedrei]

The government ended the rules and from what I was told, you wanted them to continue where you worked. You seemed to enjoy telling people what to do. Screaming in their face for trying to use a bathroom without mask.

You were told wrong and at no time did I scream in anybody’s face for using a bathroom without a mask. Unless this is another euphemism. And by euphemism I mean using other words to imply something much worse and that also didn’t happen.

You probably didn’t.

IMO you’re just a hypocrite.

Throughout the whole covid period to the present day, on every thread, you’ve ripped every Conservative statement, no matter how innocuous (despite them being out of power, federally) and given a pass to every single example of Liberal party poor decision making — this is putting it mildly (while they have been in power all along).

In a debate, you get judged not only for what you say, but what you don’t say. You don’t get to give one side a blind free pass. Unless, of course, you’re just a partisan hypocrite, and the spin of being an unbiased observer, is just that.

Silence is agreement and endorsement.

He definitely did. But you don't have to believe me either. I heard it from the other side of the building. Everyone inside immediately stopped what they were doing and got quiet.

But hey, maybe I'm Just making up these small details. You know, cause I have such a good reason to do so. I'm Pretty sure I even remember the weather that day...

I cant believe he is happy to lie so brazenly. I can think of a lot of words to describe him, but honestly, a liar wasn't one of them.

[Aviatard]

What does screaming in someone’s face mean to you? To me it means being a foot away and raising your voice.
Like this:

That’s what you’re saying I did? Because I definitely don’t remember doing that.

Or are you referring to the time an itinerant pilot came into the building without a mask, despite all the signs that said masks are required like every other business in the province and went to use the bathroom? I do remember that. If that’s the case then yes I shouted across the room about masks being required to be in the building. But that’s still not screaming in someone’s face.

[khedrei]

Looks like you missed the point. But I won't resort to childish name calling.

Nice job picking out the most important parts of my post.

[cdnavater]

Looks like you missed the point. But I won't resort to childish name calling.

Nice job picking out the most important parts of my post.

Doesn’t matter, once you compare masks mandates to rounding up Jewish people, you’ve lost any credibility you might have had prior to that.

[Old fella]

Looks like you missed the point. But I won't resort to childish name calling.

Nice job picking out the most important parts of my post.

Doesn’t matter, once you compare masks mandates to rounding up Jewish people, you’ve lost any credibility you might have had prior to that.

Attributed to Mark Twain "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

[Aviatard]

You're getting a bit closer to the truth.

Its a good thing you follow the regulations of the province and do what other businesses are doing because that makes it right.

If the government regulations require that you report all Jewish people to the authorities, does that make it right? Will you do it?

Regs dont make things right.

embellish:
to enhance (a statement or narrative) with fictitious additions.

Sure, call me a liar but have no problem embellishing your story. It’s not lying when you do it.

For a guy who likes to complain about some people telling other people what to do, you seem to have no problems telling me what I should do.

Regs don’t make things right? So you’re cool if someone gives flight instruction without a valid instructor rating, right? Or you mean you get to decide what regs to follow because everyone else has mass formation psychosis but you see the truth. This is some delicious irony.

As for comparing genocide with a minor inconvenience of wearing a piece of cloth I’ll just let that one stand on its own.

[khedrei]

You're getting a bit closer to the truth.

Its a good thing you follow the regulations of the province and do what other businesses are doing because that makes it right.

If the government regulations require that you report all Jewish people to the authorities, does that make it right? Will you do it?

Regs dont make things right.

embellish:
to enhance (a statement or narrative) with fictitious additions.

Sure, call me a liar but have no problem embellishing your story. It’s not lying when you do it.

For a guy who likes to complain about some people telling other people what to do, you seem to have no problems telling me what I should do.

Regs don’t make things right? So you’re cool if someone gives flight instruction without a valid instructor rating, right? Or you mean you get to decide what regs to follow because everyone else has mass formation psychosis but you see the truth. This is some delicious irony.

As for comparing genocide with a minor inconvenience of wearing a piece of cloth I’ll just let that one stand on its own.

So you did do what I said you did....

Got it.

I didnt compare it to genocide, I used an extreme example to show you that just because its the rules doesn't make it right. I did that because you, among others dont seem to understand that fact.

Ill remind you that people without vaccine papers were barred from society, lost their jobs and were locked in hotels coming back from vacation. Among other ridiculous unscientific punishments and regulations.

But yeah... take my obvious extreme example and claim that I'm saying its the same thing.

You guys are all the same. You seem to forget what was happening in this country just a few months ago.

[Aviatard]

You're getting a bit closer to the truth.

Its a good thing you follow the regulations of the province and do what other businesses are doing because that makes it right.

If the government regulations require that you report all Jewish people to the authorities, does that make it right? Will you do it?

Regs dont make things right.

embellish:
to enhance (a statement or narrative) with fictitious additions.

Sure, call me a liar but have no problem embellishing your story. It’s not lying when you do it.

For a guy who likes to complain about some people telling other people what to do, you seem to have no problems telling me what I should do.

Regs don’t make things right? So you’re cool if someone gives flight instruction without a valid instructor rating, right? Or you mean you get to decide what regs to follow because everyone else has mass formation psychosis but you see the truth. This is some delicious irony.

As for comparing genocide with a minor inconvenience of wearing a piece of cloth I’ll just let that one stand on its own.

So you did do what I said you did....

Got it.

Well we’ve pretty much worn this topic out. Stop by for a coffee. I might have a student to send your way.