Are AC pilots known as 'Frost Backs' now?

[RochVoisine]

Just on layover in NYC and ran into a United crew

Asked some specifics about our contract and were surprised on the verification of some things they have heard

Mentioned there is a nickname now for AC pilots?

"Frost Backs"

Apparently they don't appreciate being undercut by our comical wages & conditions

Just a heads up!

[Crewbunk]

Just on layover in NYC and ran into a United crew

Asked some specifics about our contract and were surprised on the verification of some things they have heard

Mentioned there is a nickname now for AC pilots?

"Frost Backs"

Apparently they don't appreciate being undercut by our comical wages & conditions

Just a heads up!

American Airlines pilots used to call us (Canadian Airlines pilots) the same thing in the ‘90s. Same reason.

[flyingcanuck]

Just on layover in NYC and ran into a United crew

Asked some specifics about our contract and were surprised on the verification of some things they have heard

Mentioned there is a nickname now for AC pilots?

"Frost Backs"

Apparently they don't appreciate being undercut by our comical wages & conditions

Just a heads up!

the same people would hate if the border opened up to raise said wages.. no pleasing anyone

[DanWEC]

It's been slang for Canadian workers for decades by yanks, nothing new here.

[yowflyer23]

Just on layover in NYC and ran into a United crew

Asked some specifics about our contract and were surprised on the verification of some things they have heard

Mentioned there is a nickname now for AC pilots?

"Frost Backs"

Apparently they don't appreciate being undercut by our comical wages & conditions

Just a heads up!

the same people would hate if the border opened up to raise said wages.. no pleasing anyone

Yeah because their wages would be lowered to meet in the middle with all of the new found labour supply...

[Blueontop]

Just on layover in NYC and ran into a United crew

Asked some specifics about our contract and were surprised on the verification of some things they have heard

Mentioned there is a nickname now for AC pilots?

"Frost Backs"

Apparently they don't appreciate being undercut by our comical wages & conditions

Just a heads up!

the same people would hate if the border opened up to raise said wages.. no pleasing anyone

Yeah because their wages would be lowered to meet in the middle with all of the new found labour supply...

Please a drop in the bucket. Might move the needle fractions of a percent.

[Tbayer2021]

the same people would hate if the border opened up to raise said wages.. no pleasing anyone

Yeah because their wages would be lowered to meet in the middle with all of the new found labour supply...

Please a drop in the bucket. Might move the needle fractions of a percent.

A fraction of a percent in the wrong direction. It's exactly that mentality that has led us to where we are. A little here, a little there, it's not big deal, it's not much! Don't worry it's only 10% and it's just the cargo side.

[altiplano]

Frost backs, Pirates of the NAT, nothing new here...

Only thing that is new is that we are further behind than we have ever been.

This is the year it changes, not because of ALPA, although that will be a part of it, but because it has gotten so bad relative the rest of the civilized (and much of the uncivilised) world that only the fools or the wannabe managers are still denying it.

Even the guys that thought they were getting along OK these past 10 years, or those who are just happy to be here have taken notice.

The absolutely horrible conditions have created an unintended consequence of Air Canada management's (and Mike Rousseau's) successes, unity in the group that controls the park brake and controls the switches to their largest single expense.

Genuine culture change is inbound and it isn't about "win as one" or "rise higher" or whatever HR bullshit is on tap in this week's newsletter.

[altiplano]

As for the Americans, of course they won't let us in, why would they, why should they? Should we let more FLVC Eastern-euros in? Maybe we should let Mexicans in? @#$! no. Protect your own. You want improvements? Do it on your own.

[flying4dollars]

As for the Americans, of course they won't let us in, why would they, why should they? Should we let more FLVC Eastern-euros in? Maybe we should let Mexicans in? @#$! no. Protect your own. You want improvements? Do it on your own.

I mean, they let Australians in. Why are we so different?

I've honestly never heard the term frost backs and I've chatted with many American pilots who are appalled by our wages, and if anything feel sorry for us. As for undercutting, before the Colgan accident that caused legislation change , I don't think their wages were all that much better than ours were they? Turboprop FO's making around $18,000USD and captains nowhere near $50-60,000 to start. The 1500 hour rule change matched with expansion of existing and new airlines really ignited that shortage in qualified pilots, which created the supply demand economics that they now monetarily enjoy.

I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a frost back. We're trying to change things. If they can't respect that, well, you can figure out your own cliche phrases.

[FNGYYZ]

Just on layover in NYC and ran into a United crew

Asked some specifics about our contract and were surprised on the verification of some things they have heard

Mentioned there is a nickname now for AC pilots?

"Frost Backs"

Apparently they don't appreciate being undercut by our comical wages & conditions

Just a heads up!

the same people would hate if the border opened up to raise said wages.. no pleasing anyone

Yeah because their wages would be lowered to meet in the middle with all of the new found labour supply...

Pilots from Canada wouldn't even put a dent in the pilot supply issues down south

Demand vastly surpasses supply to the point where capacity of the entire industry is limited by pilots

Canada will be there shortly

But comical to think there are enough pilots in Canada to make any measurable difference to the largest airlines on the planet

[Blueontop]

Yeah because their wages would be lowered to meet in the middle with all of the new found labour supply...

Please a drop in the bucket. Might move the needle fractions of a percent.

A fraction of a percent in the wrong direction. It's exactly that mentality that has led us to where we are. A little here, a little there, it's not big deal, it's not much! Don't worry it's only 10% and it's just the cargo side.

I have always said that this could be a mutually beneficial contract. The doors open up, Canadian pilots go down for better wages, airlines suddenly hurt for pilots and lower requirements, low time American pilots come up North and get on with Canadian airlines. And the cycle continues.

[aeronauticaldisaster]

As for the Americans, of course they won't let us in, why would they, why should they? Should we let more FLVC Eastern-euros in? Maybe we should let Mexicans in? @#$! no. Protect your own. You want improvements? Do it on your own.

I mean, they let Australians in. Why are we so different?

I've honestly never heard the term frost backs and I've chatted with many American pilots who are appalled by our wages, and if anything feel sorry for us. As for undercutting, before the Colgan accident that caused legislation change , I don't think their wages were all that much better than ours were they? Turboprop FO's making around $18,000USD and captains nowhere near $50-60,000 to start. The 1500 hour rule change matched with expansion of existing and new airlines really ignited that shortage in qualified pilots, which created the supply demand economics that they now monetarily enjoy.

I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a frost back. We're trying to change things. If they can't respect that, well, you can figure out your own cliche phrases.

We need to get the Americans to stop letting in 250 hrs Frost Back wonder pilots flying Q400s/CRJs into their country

Rules for thee are indeed rules for me

[EPR]

It

As for the Americans, of course they won't let us in, why would they, why should they? Should we let more FLVC Eastern-euros in? Maybe we should let Mexicans in? @#$! no. Protect your own. You want improvements? Do it on your own.

I mean, they let Australians in. Why are we so different?

I've honestly never heard the term frost backs and I've chatted with many American pilots who are appalled by our wages, and if anything feel sorry for us. As for undercutting, before the Colgan accident that caused legislation change , I don't think their wages were all that much better than ours were they? Turboprop FO's making around $18,000USD and captains nowhere near $50-60,000 to start. The 1500 hour rule change matched with expansion of existing and new airlines really ignited that shortage in qualified pilots, which created the supply demand economics that they now monetarily enjoy.

I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a frost back. We're trying to change things. If they can't respect that, well, you can figure out your own cliche phrases.

We need to get the Americans to stop letting in 250 hrs Frost Back wonder pilots flying Q400s/CRJs into their country

Rules for thee are indeed rules for me

Given the rate of hiring inexperienced Pilots, just to warm the right seat of our 705 aircraft, it's only a matter of time before we have a similar tragedy here in Canada! I've always said..we are 10-15 years behind the States...we are on borrowed time!

[dontcallmeshirley]

It

We need to get the Americans to stop letting in 250 hrs Frost Back wonder pilots flying Q400s/CRJs into their country

Rules for thee are indeed rules for me

Given the rate of hiring inexperienced Pilots, just to warm the right seat of our 705 aircraft, it's only a matter of time before we have a similar tragedy here in Canada! I've always said..we are 10-15 years behind the States...we are on borrowed time!

I mean no offense to the pilots involved, but were the past few Air Canada incidents caused by lack of experience?

AC759 - A320 nearly lands on taxiway in SFO
AC624 - A320 lands short of runway in YHZ

The lack of experience in the cockpit is definitely a hazard, but if properly mitigated through training and supervision, that risk can be low.

[GeoffPilot]

It

We need to get the Americans to stop letting in 250 hrs Frost Back wonder pilots flying Q400s/CRJs into their country

Rules for thee are indeed rules for me

Given the rate of hiring inexperienced Pilots, just to warm the right seat of our 705 aircraft, it's only a matter of time before we have a similar tragedy here in Canada! I've always said..we are 10-15 years behind the States...we are on borrowed time!

I mean no offense to the pilots involved, but were the past few Air Canada incidents caused by lack of experience?

AC759 - A320 nearly lands on taxiway in SFO
AC624 - A320 lands short of runway in YHZ

The lack of experience in the cockpit is definitely a hazard, but if properly mitigated through training and supervision, that risk can be low.

There is no substitute for experience

But there is also no substitute for good training

Strong operations leverage both

[dontcallmeshirley]

There is no substitute for experience

But there is also no substitute for good training

Strong operations leverage both

I anticipate this being a somewhat controversial opinion, but experience without good training is far more dangerous than good training without experience.

[dumbbell daddy]

Northern Mexican’s is the funniest one I’ve heard, and that was from an Atlas crew.

And in regards to experience and training. We like to think we’re some of the best pilots in the world because we have winter. Lol. Go do a sim eval in another part of the world. Tech exams, psych tests and sim evals.

Man I’m getting bitter with Canada. Must be Trudeau……

[Inverted2]

As for the Americans, of course they won't let us in, why would they, why should they? Should we let more FLVC Eastern-euros in? Maybe we should let Mexicans in? @#$! no. Protect your own. You want improvements? Do it on your own.

I mean, they let Australians in. Why are we so different?

I've honestly never heard the term frost backs and I've chatted with many American pilots who are appalled by our wages, and if anything feel sorry for us. As for undercutting, before the Colgan accident that caused legislation change , I don't think their wages were all that much better than ours were they? Turboprop FO's making around $18,000USD and captains nowhere near $50-60,000 to start. The 1500 hour rule change matched with expansion of existing and new airlines really ignited that shortage in qualified pilots, which created the supply demand economics that they now monetarily enjoy.

I wouldn't be offended if someone called me a frost back. We're trying to change things. If they can't respect that, well, you can figure out your own cliche phrases.

We need to get the Americans to stop letting in 250 hrs Frost Back wonder pilots flying Q400s/CRJs into their country

Rules for thee are indeed rules for me

Unfortunately the only way that could happen is a major accident on their soil.

[cdnavater]

Northern Mexican’s is the funniest one I’ve heard, and that was from an Atlas crew.

And in regards to experience and training. We like to think we’re some of the best pilots in the world because we have winter. Lol. Go do a sim eval in another part of the world. Tech exams, psych tests and sim evals.

Man I’m getting bitter with Canada. Must be Trudeau……

Wow, an Atlas crew, jebus we are in rough shape!