WestJet breaks collective agreement with pilots.

[CanadaAir]

Sunwing lies to its pilots about sale to WestJet.
WestJet breaking collective agreement with ALPA purchasing Sunwing without pilot ratification.

WestJet ALPA collective agreement
1 – SCOPE

1-1.01. Except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement, all revenue flying, wet leasing for other
airlines and charter flights operated by the Company shall be flown exclusively by Pilots who are subject
to this Agreement, and in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

1-1.06. The Company will not establish a new affiliate for the purpose of circumventing the
terms and conditions of this Agreement.

If airline management can bargain illegally with Sunwing & break collective agreement with WestJet pilots, is there any point in pilots following their conditions in collective agreements?

Why isn't ALPA WestJet suing WestJet over this?

Is ALPA allowing airline management to get away with anything?


Sunwing lie
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sunwin ... -1.6509840


Expect WestJet CEO to put Sunwing pilots against WestJet pilots.
Make some threats to the pilots about losing seniority or pay, merger of lists.
Trying to delay current negotiations and throw off strike.

Its not the fault of either pilot group, don't start fighting between the pilot groups.
The management set this up.

[dontcallmeshirley]

While I agree with your anger and distrust of the management of "WestJet, an Alberta Partership", your argument fails to acknowledge the next section in the CBA.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Sunwing lies to its pilots about sale to WestJet.
WestJet breaking collective agreement with ALPA purchasing Sunwing without pilot ratification.

WestJet ALPA collective agreement
1 – SCOPE

1-1.01. Except as otherwise provided for in this Agreement, all revenue flying, wet leasing for other
airlines and charter flights operated by the Company shall be flown exclusively by Pilots who are subject
to this Agreement, and in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

1-1.06. The Company will not establish a new affiliate for the purpose of circumventing the
terms and conditions of this Agreement.

If airline management can bargain illegally with Sunwing & break collective agreement with WestJet pilots, is there any point in pilots following their conditions in collective agreements?

Why isn't ALPA WestJet suing WestJet over this?

Is ALPA allowing airline management to get away with anything?


Sunwing lie
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sunwin ... -1.6509840


Expect WestJet CEO to put Sunwing pilots against WestJet pilots.
Make some threats to the pilots about losing seniority or pay, merger of lists.
Trying to delay current negotiations and throw off strike.

Its not the fault of either pilot group, don't start fighting between the pilot groups.
The management set this up.

The timing of this does seem ripe for the picking, I’ll admit. But don’t go all “paranoid android” on us. Keep a cool head, and use it to your benefit.

[CanadaAir]

While I agree with your anger and distrust of the management of "WestJet, an Alberta Partership", your argument fails to acknowledge the next section in the CBA.

WestJet buying Sunwing has been planned at least a year ago, but the company's now waiting until a few days prior to the strike to share any information. In good faith would have been discussing this with the pilots for many months prior to CBA expiry.
Last minute, its a tactic to throw off the strike.

The company lacks working together.

There's no point in pilots following CBA rules if the company isn't.
No expectation of good faith or honesty from such management.

ALPA needs to step up.

[dontcallmeshirley]

WestJet buying Sunwing has been planned at least a year ago, but the company's now waiting until a few days prior to the strike to share any information. In good faith would have been discussing this with the pilots for many months prior to CBA expiry.
Last minute, its a tactic to throw off the strike.

The company lacks working together.

There's no point in pilots following CBA rules if the company isn't.

I'm not disagreeing with anything other than the "meeting in good faith" part.

Has the union made it clear whether the company had approached them with their plan for Sunwing and it's integration into "WestJet, an Alberta Partnership"?

[CaptDukeNukem]

While I agree with your anger and distrust of the management of "WestJet, an Alberta Partership", your argument fails to acknowledge the next section in the CBA.

WestJet buying Sunwing has been planned at least a year ago, but the company's now waiting until a few days prior to the strike to share any information. In good faith would have been discussing this with the pilots for many months prior to CBA expiry.
Last minute, its a tactic to throw off the strike.

The company lacks working together.

There's no point in pilots following CBA rules if the company isn't.
No expectation of good faith or honesty from such management.

ALPA needs to step up.

The CBA ended Jan 1st. The rules are gone my friend. For both sides

[CanadaAir]

WestJet buying Sunwing has been planned at least a year ago, but the company's now waiting until a few days prior to the strike to share any information. In good faith would have been discussing this with the pilots for many months prior to CBA expiry.
Last minute, its a tactic to throw off the strike.

The company lacks working together.

There's no point in pilots following CBA rules if the company isn't.

I'm not disagreeing with anything other than the "meeting in good faith" part.

Has the union made it clear whether the company had approached them with their plan for Sunwing and it's integration into "WestJet, an Alberta Partnership"?

March 10, 2023

WestJet Pilots Respond to Acquisition of Sunwing

CALGARY, AB—Currently in negotiations for their second collective agreement, WestJet Airlines pilots have reiterated their call for greater job security, improved working conditions, and industry-standard wages for all WestJet group pilots after the federal government formally approved the airline's acquisition of Sunwing Airlines.

“We have been anticipating this announcement for some time, but unfortunately it came without any consultation with WestJet management” said Capt. Bernard Lewall, chair of the WestJet Master Executive Council of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l (ALPA). “We currently have meetings scheduled with the company next week where we will seek additional information and clarification regarding any potential future merger of operations and its impact on our current contract negotiations and the pilot group as a whole.”

https://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/ne ... cquisition

[CanadaAir]

While I agree with your anger and distrust of the management of "WestJet, an Alberta Partership", your argument fails to acknowledge the next section in the CBA.

WestJet buying Sunwing has been planned at least a year ago, but the company's now waiting until a few days prior to the strike to share any information. In good faith would have been discussing this with the pilots for many months prior to CBA expiry.
Last minute, its a tactic to throw off the strike.

The company lacks working together.

There's no point in pilots following CBA rules if the company isn't.
No expectation of good faith or honesty from such management.

ALPA needs to step up.

The CBA ended Jan 1st. The rules are gone my friend. For both sides

When CBA is expired both sides should remain under the former agreement until a new one is set.
The pilots have continued to work under the existing agreement.
The company has taken steps away, without key pilot input.

If this is allowed, the company could start changing various CBA rules without pilot input. They could cut pay, without even getting to a legal lockout.

[CanadaAir]

From lawyers

Unlike regular contracts, the parties' obligations do not end on the expiration of a collective bargaining agreement. Provided that a majority of the bargaining unit employees continues to support the union, union representatives and management must bargain in good faith for a successor collective bargaining agreement, during which time the terms of the expired contract generally continue.

[dontcallmeshirley]

So it seems time for WestJet and Swoop pilots to file grievances regarding the apparent deviation from the current agreement.

[Bede]

Why isn't ALPA WestJet suing WestJet over this?

Is ALPA allowing airline management to get away with anything?

Sorry, I can't follow your argument. Are you saying that WJ's acquisition of Sunwing contravenes our scope provisions?

Also union's don't sue employers in Canada: they file grievances or CIRB complaints.

[CaptDukeNukem]

WestJet buying Sunwing has been planned at least a year ago, but the company's now waiting until a few days prior to the strike to share any information. In good faith would have been discussing this with the pilots for many months prior to CBA expiry.
Last minute, its a tactic to throw off the strike.

The company lacks working together.

There's no point in pilots following CBA rules if the company isn't.
No expectation of good faith or honesty from such management.

ALPA needs to step up.

The CBA ended Jan 1st. The rules are gone my friend. For both sides

When CBA is expired both sides should remain under the former agreement until a new one is set.
The pilots have continued to work under the existing agreement.
The company has taken steps away, without key pilot input.

If this is allowed, the company could start changing various CBA rules without pilot input. They could cut pay, without even getting to a legal lockout.

Yes. I agree with you. Trust me, I’m on your side. I was just trying to say that the company will try to use tactics to “union bust”

Stay strong. Good things coming your way

[CanadaAir]

Why isn't ALPA WestJet suing WestJet over this?

Is ALPA allowing airline management to get away with anything?

Sorry, I can't follow your argument. Are you saying that WJ's acquisition of Sunwing contravenes our scope provisions?

Also union's don't sue employers in Canada: they file grievances or CIRB complaints.

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

Same thing happens with WJ pilots. WestJet management isn't sharing plans & moving on its own.
Those who want to rely on labour laws could get the short end, from management that don't follow laws.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.
Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

[TFTMB heavy]

Why isn't ALPA WestJet suing WestJet over this?

Is ALPA allowing airline management to get away with anything?

Sorry, I can't follow your argument. Are you saying that WJ's acquisition of Sunwing contravenes our scope provisions?

Also union's don't sue employers in Canada: they file grievances or CIRB complaints.

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

Same thing happens with WJ pilots. WestJet management isn't sharing plans & moving on its own.
Those who want to rely on labour laws could get the short end, from management that don't follow laws.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.
Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

Sunwing has roughly 25% of the sun destinations flying and does EU deployments in the Summer, they're not going anywhere anytime soon.

Westjet pilots hold the hammer right now, I doubt they get locked out when their CEO claims they are an essentiel service. This is the part when people loose their nerve and start folding, stay strong Westjet.

[fruz]

Why isn't ALPA WestJet suing WestJet over this?

Is ALPA allowing airline management to get away with anything?

Sorry, I can't follow your argument. Are you saying that WJ's acquisition of Sunwing contravenes our scope provisions?

Also union's don't sue employers in Canada: they file grievances or CIRB complaints.

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

Same thing happens with WJ pilots. WestJet management isn't sharing plans & moving on its own.
Those who want to rely on labour laws could get the short end, from management that don't follow laws.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.
Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

Just to clarify, the CIRB complaint was resolved through negotiation between the Sunwing pilots and Sunwing management.This was completed in December 2022. The negotiating in bad faith complaint was filed with the CIRB by the Sunwing Pilots. The company conceded ultimately to the pilots, who in turn, received wage increases, min guarantee changes and some other conditions.

This wasn't done by suing Sunwing. This was all done through the Industrial Relations Board, but ultimately resolved by the union and management.

[Bede]

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

Do you not think that the ALPA lawyers have already reviewed and perhaps come to a different conclusion than you did?

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

It did get resolved, quite quickly I might add. They negotiated a wage rate of WestJet wages +2.5%.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.

What do you mean "beyond the CIRB"?

Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

What would their cause of action be?

[CanadaAir]

Sorry, I can't follow your argument. Are you saying that WJ's acquisition of Sunwing contravenes our scope provisions?

Also union's don't sue employers in Canada: they file grievances or CIRB complaints.

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

Same thing happens with WJ pilots. WestJet management isn't sharing plans & moving on its own.
Those who want to rely on labour laws could get the short end, from management that don't follow laws.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.
Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

Just to clarify, the CIRB complaint was resolved through negotiation between the Sunwing pilots and Sunwing management.This was completed in December 2022. The negotiating in bad faith complaint was filed with the CIRB by the Sunwing Pilots. The company conceded ultimately to the pilots, who in turn, received wage increases, min guarantee changes and some other conditions.

This wasn't done by suing Sunwing. This was all done through the Industrial Relations Board, but ultimately resolved by the union and management.

Their pay went up. Now is their CBA even valid?

Was the settlement enough for protecting their jobs & seniority, & what will happen with WJ.

WJ ALPA pilots are expecting large wages increase, which should benefit current Sunwing pilots transitioning to WJ.

Sunwing pilots going to WJ ALPA would benefit through supporting WJ ALPA.

[ant_321]

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

Same thing happens with WJ pilots. WestJet management isn't sharing plans & moving on its own.
Those who want to rely on labour laws could get the short end, from management that don't follow laws.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.
Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

Just to clarify, the CIRB complaint was resolved through negotiation between the Sunwing pilots and Sunwing management.This was completed in December 2022. The negotiating in bad faith complaint was filed with the CIRB by the Sunwing Pilots. The company conceded ultimately to the pilots, who in turn, received wage increases, min guarantee changes and some other conditions.

This wasn't done by suing Sunwing. This was all done through the Industrial Relations Board, but ultimately resolved by the union and management.

Their pay went up. Now is their CBA even valid?

Was the settlement enough for protecting their jobs & seniority, & what will happen with WJ.

WJ ALPA pilots are expecting large wages increase, which should benefit current Sunwing pilots transitioning to WJ.

Sunwing pilots going to WJ ALPA would benefit through supporting WJ ALPA.

Of course the CBA is valid. CBA’s get amending with LOU’s all the time. Westjet intends on keeping the airlines separate. A lot of things will have to happen before SWG pilots would “transition” to westjet. The airlines are separate bargaining units. A pay raise at one does not mean one for the other.

[CanadaAir]

Just to clarify, the CIRB complaint was resolved through negotiation between the Sunwing pilots and Sunwing management.This was completed in December 2022. The negotiating in bad faith complaint was filed with the CIRB by the Sunwing Pilots. The company conceded ultimately to the pilots, who in turn, received wage increases, min guarantee changes and some other conditions.

This wasn't done by suing Sunwing. This was all done through the Industrial Relations Board, but ultimately resolved by the union and management.

Their pay went up. Now is their CBA even valid?

Was the settlement enough for protecting their jobs & seniority, & what will happen with WJ.

WJ ALPA pilots are expecting large wages increase, which should benefit current Sunwing pilots transitioning to WJ.

Sunwing pilots going to WJ ALPA would benefit through supporting WJ ALPA.

Of course the CBA is valid. CBA’s get amending with LOU’s all the time. Westjet intends on keeping the airlines separate. A lot of things will have to happen before SWG pilots would “transition” to westjet. The airlines are separate bargaining units. A pay raise at one does not mean one for the other.

"The airlines said they will initially continue as independent operations before the two entities combine."

"It must also increase net employment by 20 per cent over three years in the Toronto office, as well as gradually ending Sunwing’s seasonal leasing practice to protect Canadian jobs."

[CanadaAir]

The scope has been contravened or is in process of contravening by the acquisition. ALPA lawyers should review.

Do you not think that the ALPA lawyers have already reviewed and perhaps come to a different conclusion than you did?

CIRB complaint could be made, but how did that workout for Sunwing pilots? They could all be without a job by the time that's resolved, and with no compensation. Sunwing executives will have their money, with no penalties for how they acted with the pilots.

It did get resolved, quite quickly I might add. They negotiated a wage rate of WestJet wages +2.5%.

ALPA should go beyond CIRB.

What do you mean "beyond the CIRB"?

Sunwing pilots should sue as group.

What would their cause of action be?

WJ MEC has done impressively positive
ALPA National & US hasn't impressed for years, their lawyers and officials allowed sub condition CBA in Canada.
Lawyers & ALPA require direction from the MEC & pilots.

Merger mess