AIP is dogshit

[airway]

This is part of the reason why Unions don’t release agreements the day they are signed. Everyone is up in arms of the executive summary without hearing what has to be said by the negotiators.

So, are you saying that it is better to have the excutive summary on the day the aggreement was signed rather than the whole aggrement?

Usually, the whole aggreement takes a few days or weeks to write up, and be approved by both parties.




.

[highlander]

Long time lurker, first time poster in these WJ specific threads (i think).

I've been at WJ for just over 15 years. Long time commuter and a family man. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't consider myself contract savvy. I don't have other carriers contracts in my ipad and memorized on a whim. I don't have a screenshot of someone's pay stub from AC, Flair SW or Delta. I do have friends at these places and from time to time we talk.....but we never compare paystubs...... that's like taking a ruler out and measuring your ding dong with your friends ding dong......some things you just shouldn't do and someone is going to be disappointed.

So far, I like what I see with this AIP.

For those who aren't at WJ, I'd tell you that you probably don't have all the facts and I'm not sure why you think you're the voice of reason here. I don't really care what a pilot from another ALPA carrier.....or any carrier thinks.

What people forget is that we had surveys. The surveys helped guide the MEC/Negots as to what the priorities would be for this CA. Some of the key things these surveys told the MEC and Negotiations were that we wanted improved take home pay, scope and general lifestyle/work balance improvements. It's all fine and dandy to ask for a 30% raise or whatever you think you're worth....but I see very little relevance in that when you're taxed like crazy and your net take home barely increases as a result of it. For 2022- my T4 was over 270,000. But I paid nearly 89,000 in income tax and that's with doing 20% (NRRSP/RRSP). For years, we've been saying that it's not WHAT we get paid......it's HOW we get paid.

Next- I think the 2 page summary isn't being read correctly and it's missing a couple of things. If you're an outsider looking in, or maybe another WJ pilot who didn't hear the podcast, I would argue you're missing some things. Before the 2 page summary was released, they released a podcast for our pilots. The podcast helped summarize the events and the AIP and what to expect. From there, they later submitted the 2 page summary. If you didn't hear the podcast and then read the summary, I think you wouldn't have all of the facts or context. For example, the podcast talked about a pension...but it's missing in the summary....likewise the summary mentions an LOL similar to Jazz but wasn't mentioned in the podcast. There were things said in the podcast that were not said in the summary and vice versa. If you put the podcast and written summary together you get an even better understanding of what this AIP means.

None of us have seen the pay scales or the TA. I've heard many sections are much longer and more robust than the last CA. Without having the entire document, I don't know how one automatically jumps to the conclusion that it is dogshit. Is it a YES vote for me....... well overall I like what I see- I guess they have to prove me wrong. I have no problem voting NO if the documents lacks details and has lots of ambiguity.

I'm excited because, since we've been certified, we haven't had a actual contract we've VOTED for. This is a big deal for us.

A final thought- One thing I've learned in over 30 years of flying is that someone will always fly something bigger and faster than you. I've also learned in life that someone (doing the same job or not) will also make more money than you. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best or the most....(heck we all want that) but once you've reached the top.....then what? Is it really ever good enough for you? (sorry for the philosophical rant).

The MEC leaders and Negots- in my opinion, are probably the best ones under these circumstances -that we've had since we certified. We've had different MEC leadership and I think these guys and gals are top notch and I can't imagine anyone else in their place. We were/are still ready and so are they. They were prepared to lead us through a strike and they didn't waver in this. I have no reason to believe they would have taken a mediocre AIP. They delivered an AIP that they felt was a good deal for us. I trust them.

Be safe out there.

[Crewbunk]

So far, I like what I see with this AIP.

For those who aren't at WJ, I'd tell you that you probably don't have all the facts and I'm not sure why you think you're the voice of reason here. I don't really care what a pilot from another ALPA carrier.....or any carrier thinks.

Very well said, and thank you for taking the time to post this. I agree with your sentiment, that a lot of people not at all involved with Westjet are making opinions. And …. they can’t wait to share them, fingers quivering with anticipation.

Another Westjet Captain posted a very interesting statement I think that is lost to many. “Everything has a cost”.

I looked at the non-monetary gains with respect. There are a LOT of (expensive) gains in that AIP. My jaw dropped when I read that Swoop and Sunwing will be combined with Westjet as one group, one payscale, one set of working conditions. That is HUGE. Probably worth a few hundred million right there. And, something the morons at ACPA were unable to achieve in 10+ years. (I fly for AC).

Looking at the Westjet ALPA podcasts, it was clear their mandate was not just money. They seem to have achieved their goal.

But, as I said to a Westjet buddy of mine. By my best estimation, you could have got a 35% raise, but with no other gains. What is better? My own uneducated opinion as an outsider, is that the presented AIP is better.

[WJ200]

Long time lurker, first time poster in these WJ specific threads (i think).

I've been at WJ for just over 15 years. Long time commuter and a family man. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't consider myself contract savvy. I don't have other carriers contracts in my ipad and memorized on a whim. I don't have a screenshot of someone's pay stub from AC, Flair SW or Delta. I do have friends at these places and from time to time we talk.....but we never compare paystubs...... that's like taking a ruler out and measuring your ding dong with your friends ding dong......some things you just shouldn't do and someone is going to be disappointed.

So far, I like what I see with this AIP.

For those who aren't at WJ, I'd tell you that you probably don't have all the facts and I'm not sure why you think you're the voice of reason here. I don't really care what a pilot from another ALPA carrier.....or any carrier thinks.

What people forget is that we had surveys. The surveys helped guide the MEC/Negots as to what the priorities would be for this CA. Some of the key things these surveys told the MEC and Negotiations were that we wanted improved take home pay, scope and general lifestyle/work balance improvements. It's all fine and dandy to ask for a 30% raise or whatever you think you're worth....but I see very little relevance in that when you're taxed like crazy and your net take home barely increases as a result of it. For 2022- my T4 was over 270,000. But I paid nearly 89,000 in income tax and that's with doing 20% (NRRSP/RRSP). For years, we've been saying that it's not WHAT we get paid......it's HOW we get paid.

Next- I think the 2 page summary isn't being read correctly and it's missing a couple of things. If you're an outsider looking in, or maybe another WJ pilot who didn't hear the podcast, I would argue you're missing some things. Before the 2 page summary was released, they released a podcast for our pilots. The podcast helped summarize the events and the AIP and what to expect. From there, they later submitted the 2 page summary. If you didn't hear the podcast and then read the summary, I think you wouldn't have all of the facts or context. For example, the podcast talked about a pension...but it's missing in the summary....likewise the summary mentions an LOL similar to Jazz but wasn't mentioned in the podcast. There were things said in the podcast that were not said in the summary and vice versa. If you put the podcast and written summary together you get an even better understanding of what this AIP means.

None of us have seen the pay scales or the TA. I've heard many sections are much longer and more robust than the last CA. Without having the entire document, I don't know how one automatically jumps to the conclusion that it is dogshit. Is it a YES vote for me....... well overall I like what I see- I guess they have to prove me wrong. I have no problem voting NO if the documents lacks details and has lots of ambiguity.

I'm excited because, since we've been certified, we haven't had a actual contract we've VOTED for. This is a big deal for us.

A final thought- One thing I've learned in over 30 years of flying is that someone will always fly something bigger and faster than you. I've also learned in life that someone (doing the same job or not) will also make more money than you. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best or the most....(heck we all want that) but once you've reached the top.....then what? Is it really ever good enough for you? (sorry for the philosophical rant).

The MEC leaders and Negots- in my opinion, are probably the best ones under these circumstances -that we've had since we certified. We've had different MEC leadership and I think these guys and gals are top notch and I can't imagine anyone else in their place. We were/are still ready and so are they. They were prepared to lead us through a strike and they didn't waver in this. I have no reason to believe they would have taken a mediocre AIP. They delivered an AIP that they felt was a good deal for us. I trust them.

Be safe out there.

Great post and sums up my feelings exactly. Many of those saying VOTE NO or this is horses!t haven't lived the lives that we have at Westjet and do not have the context of what we've experienced the last decade or more. This builds a great foundation and if you're an outsider encouraging a NO vote so that you can get more in your own pattern bargaining, you do not have the context of what this TA means. Also, nobody has seen the contract with the full picture and are just interpreting the limited information given. Patience and stop listening to all this noise.

[rudder]

For 2022- my T4 was over 270,000. But I paid nearly 89,000 in income tax and that's with doing 20% (NRRSP/RRSP). For years, we've been saying that it's not WHAT we get paid......it's HOW we get paid.

If you made $270k and only paid $89k in tax then you got a good deal.

You must be living in AB.

[highlander]

For 2022- my T4 was over 270,000. But I paid nearly 89,000 in income tax and that's with doing 20% (NRRSP/RRSP). For years, we've been saying that it's not WHAT we get paid......it's HOW we get paid.

If you made $270k and only paid $89k in tax then you got a good deal.

You must be living in AB.

The total deductions are actually well over 105K.....I had to look at my last paystub for 2022. In any case, I'm not in AB. Hopefully you got more out of my post then just that....lol

[Canadaflyer46]

The disappointment in this AIP comes from being told month after month ‘North American standard contract’ ‘we’re the tip of the spear’ ‘we WILL make them’ etc etc.
Some gains in this no doubt, but it’s no where close to ‘bridging the gap’ as the MEC kept promising. I think I along with many others would be keen to know why the sudden U-turn on the central theme of their manifesto.
It appears we had to use all our bargaining chips to recapture Swoop. Then there’s a lot of items we had before and have now negotiated back.
Obviously it’s a big improvement on CA1, and if the scope language is water tight then it’ll likely get voted in.
We couldn’t even get premium seat DHs? Or US per diems?
Pointless to vote it down now, we gave away the most leverage we’ll ever have.

[Greasy Greaser]

So far, I like what I see with this AIP.

For those who aren't at WJ, I'd tell you that you probably don't have all the facts and I'm not sure why you think you're the voice of reason here. I don't really care what a pilot from another ALPA carrier.....or any carrier thinks.


Be safe out there.

I am pretty certain than 90% of the reason why other carrier pilots (mainly AC according to everyone I talk to there lol) want WestJet to get 'REAL GAINS and vote no to this' so they can go to their upper management and say why the number 2 low cost airline in Canada are marking more than legacy AC pilots. Not a bad way to do things, just funny.

Hopefully the CA has the language we desperately need here but sounds like my take home pay is going up 100%, real scope coming in, benefits...yada yada yada. And hopefully those vocal ones saying no already realize the Air Canada hiring portal is open right now.

[Nashbandicoot]

Long time lurker, first time poster in these WJ specific threads (i think).

I've been at WJ for just over 15 years. Long time commuter and a family man. I'll be the first to tell you that I don't consider myself contract savvy. I don't have other carriers contracts in my ipad and memorized on a whim. I don't have a screenshot of someone's pay stub from AC, Flair SW or Delta. I do have friends at these places and from time to time we talk.....but we never compare paystubs...... that's like taking a ruler out and measuring your ding dong with your friends ding dong......some things you just shouldn't do and someone is going to be disappointed.

So far, I like what I see with this AIP.

For those who aren't at WJ, I'd tell you that you probably don't have all the facts and I'm not sure why you think you're the voice of reason here. I don't really care what a pilot from another ALPA carrier.....or any carrier thinks.

What people forget is that we had surveys. The surveys helped guide the MEC/Negots as to what the priorities would be for this CA. Some of the key things these surveys told the MEC and Negotiations were that we wanted improved take home pay, scope and general lifestyle/work balance improvements. It's all fine and dandy to ask for a 30% raise or whatever you think you're worth....but I see very little relevance in that when you're taxed like crazy and your net take home barely increases as a result of it. For 2022- my T4 was over 270,000. But I paid nearly 89,000 in income tax and that's with doing 20% (NRRSP/RRSP). For years, we've been saying that it's not WHAT we get paid......it's HOW we get paid.

Next- I think the 2 page summary isn't being read correctly and it's missing a couple of things. If you're an outsider looking in, or maybe another WJ pilot who didn't hear the podcast, I would argue you're missing some things. Before the 2 page summary was released, they released a podcast for our pilots. The podcast helped summarize the events and the AIP and what to expect. From there, they later submitted the 2 page summary. If you didn't hear the podcast and then read the summary, I think you wouldn't have all of the facts or context. For example, the podcast talked about a pension...but it's missing in the summary....likewise the summary mentions an LOL similar to Jazz but wasn't mentioned in the podcast. There were things said in the podcast that were not said in the summary and vice versa. If you put the podcast and written summary together you get an even better understanding of what this AIP means.

None of us have seen the pay scales or the TA. I've heard many sections are much longer and more robust than the last CA. Without having the entire document, I don't know how one automatically jumps to the conclusion that it is dogshit. Is it a YES vote for me....... well overall I like what I see- I guess they have to prove me wrong. I have no problem voting NO if the documents lacks details and has lots of ambiguity.

I'm excited because, since we've been certified, we haven't had a actual contract we've VOTED for. This is a big deal for us.

A final thought- One thing I've learned in over 30 years of flying is that someone will always fly something bigger and faster than you. I've also learned in life that someone (doing the same job or not) will also make more money than you. There's nothing wrong with wanting the best or the most....(heck we all want that) but once you've reached the top.....then what? Is it really ever good enough for you? (sorry for the philosophical rant).

The MEC leaders and Negots- in my opinion, are probably the best ones under these circumstances -that we've had since we certified. We've had different MEC leadership and I think these guys and gals are top notch and I can't imagine anyone else in their place. We were/are still ready and so are they. They were prepared to lead us through a strike and they didn't waver in this. I have no reason to believe they would have taken a mediocre AIP. They delivered an AIP that they felt was a good deal for us. I trust them.

Be safe out there.

+1 well said

[Red1]

I will agree with the sentiment above, you need to see the whole doucment before voting "no". If you read every single North American contract the #1 item is always scope. Without scope you can be paid the best wages in the world, only to see them "swooped" away by an alter ego carrier. From what I understand WestJet pilots will now have scope language that rivals most American carriers. No other carrier in North America at this time faces the same scope issues that WestJet does, with Swoop and Sunwing. The fact that the NC was able to remove Swoop from the equation after one contract (took AC 2-3 contracts) and build a road map for the integration of Sunwing is a massive gain. The TA will begin to narrow the gap against the American carriers. Remember these carriers have had years to refine their contracts, and didn't have the same pressures of a low-cost carrier and a merger to deal with. This will fix the take home pay, and fix many of the annoying little language holes in the current contract. Lastly, you need to way the consequences of voting no. The MEC and the NC don't simply go back to the table and get a better deal. If past history tells us anything you get a new MEC, a new NC, surveys etc , and maybe 6-8 months later have another TA, which just as easily could be worse (See info on AC's rejected TA). If this was simply about wages, then a no vote has little risk (maybe you make a little more, maybe you make a little less). But this TA is about so much more than wages, its a hell of gamble when scope is on the line.

[pacman007]

I have seen many of the US contracts. WestJet had to FIX scope and a plethora of other things! The US airlines have had mature contracts and all they have left to get is money. WestJet pilots will get paid when there is nothing else to get.

[Scubes76]

I will agree with the sentiment above, you need to see the whole doucment before voting "no". If you read every single North American contract the #1 item is always scope. Without scope you can be paid the best wages in the world, only to see them "swooped" away by an alter ego carrier. From what I understand WestJet pilots will now have scope language that rivals most American carriers. No other carrier in North America at this time faces the same scope issues that WestJet does, with Swoop and Sunwing. The fact that the NC was able to remove Swoop from the equation after one contract (took AC 2-3 contracts) and build a road map for the integration of Sunwing is a massive gain. The TA will begin to narrow the gap against the American carriers. Remember these carriers have had years to refine their contracts, and didn't have the same pressures of a low-cost carrier and a merger to deal with. This will fix the take home pay, and fix many of the annoying little language holes in the current contract. Lastly, you need to way the consequences of voting no. The MEC and the NC don't simply go back to the table and get a better deal. If past history tells us anything you get a new MEC, a new NC, surveys etc , and maybe 6-8 months later have another TA, which just as easily could be worse (See info on AC's rejected TA). If this was simply about wages, then a no vote has little risk (maybe you make a little more, maybe you make a little less). But this TA is about so much more than wages, its a hell of gamble when scope is on the line.

Please excuse my ignorance, long time lurker with a genuine interest in this whole scenario. Can someone please explain this whole term of "scope" and what is meant by this?

[Tbayer2021]

I will agree with the sentiment above, you need to see the whole doucment before voting "no". If you read every single North American contract the #1 item is always scope. Without scope you can be paid the best wages in the world, only to see them "swooped" away by an alter ego carrier. From what I understand WestJet pilots will now have scope language that rivals most American carriers. No other carrier in North America at this time faces the same scope issues that WestJet does, with Swoop and Sunwing. The fact that the NC was able to remove Swoop from the equation after one contract (took AC 2-3 contracts) and build a road map for the integration of Sunwing is a massive gain. The TA will begin to narrow the gap against the American carriers. Remember these carriers have had years to refine their contracts, and didn't have the same pressures of a low-cost carrier and a merger to deal with. This will fix the take home pay, and fix many of the annoying little language holes in the current contract. Lastly, you need to way the consequences of voting no. The MEC and the NC don't simply go back to the table and get a better deal. If past history tells us anything you get a new MEC, a new NC, surveys etc , and maybe 6-8 months later have another TA, which just as easily could be worse (See info on AC's rejected TA). If this was simply about wages, then a no vote has little risk (maybe you make a little more, maybe you make a little less). But this TA is about so much more than wages, its a hell of gamble when scope is on the line.

Please excuse my ignorance, long time lurker with a genuine interest in this whole scenario. Can someone please explain this whole term of "scope" and what is meant by this?

Scope is the scope of the operation, all the flying it does and future flying it may do. Having scope refers to the pilots at, in this case WestJet, essentially having the right to any flying the company does or may want to do. This is done to not only protect jobs, but to protect the quality of those jobs also. As the company is free to start another operation with cheaper labour if the pilots don't have "scope". Like WJ did when they started Swoop years ago.

WJ started Swoop and ultimately shifted more and more tails and flying to that operation. An operation that paid its pilots considerably less for the same flying they were doing under mainline conditions. So getting extremely high pay-rates without having scope isn't necessarily the best idea, since the company can just shift flying to a cheaper operation.

[Scubes76]

Ah, I see, yeah I can imagine pilots at WJ would not have been happy about Swoop starting out and hiring other pilots at a lesser wage. This makes more sense now, appreciate the reply!

[Tolip]

100% agree, this AIP is dog poop

Doest meet the moment, and by the end of its term WILL have pilots in the red again/taking losses to inflationary pressures. 15% raise almost exactly meets the ON PAPER inflation of the last few years (tho we all know true inflation is drastically higher then 15). Then the 3% year over year will NOT keep up with comming inflation and potential economic downturn. This AIP does not give a raise, and does not protect the pilots in a uncertain economic future. It does not meet the mandate..

And on a side note that I think is extremely confusing to all that are reading it. Is the new WSP changes. And with that here is some food for thought.

Pilots are getting a 15.5% "riase", however they have just come out and stated that the old WSP cash match program is now OVER. That program used to allow pilots at the end of each year to grow their over all wage by 20 plus percent year over year. And that would be CASH in hand!! And guaranteed.. now they will only be given 9.1% that can only be added into their TSFA or RRSP, which will also generate gains. However the big difference here is that the stock market is doing horribly now, the CASH MATCH program guaranteed up to 120% return on investment, I doubt with the rrsp\tsfa option that you will even get a 15% return o investment.. aswell with those funds being put in a rrsp\ tsfa they are locked up fairly tight, not CASH in HAND.. so basically what I'm saying here is that mo matter how the union spins this to try to make it sound positive. It's not. It is a MASSIVE loss, and the losses from loosing g the cash match program almost completely offset the 15.5% raise..

This is a bad bad offer. I hope WJ pilots follow the example set out by AC, and vote thos.down. look out side of your own individual situation, and ask your self if a 737 and 787 pilot deserves 73k salary for year 1-3.. and if your deadhead time is only worth 50%... or if giving swoop pilots a raise is worth loosing the best negotiating power we have ever had, AC is starting negotiations this summer. I for one would like to see a no vote to this AIP, and have AC and WJ together with alpa negotiate TOGETHER, for the first time in history! Take a second and Imagin what that could accomplish. Could be the real deal.

[maverick12]

100% agree, this AIP is dog poop

Doest meet the moment, and by the end of its term WILL have pilots in the red again/taking losses to inflationary pressures. 15% raise almost exactly meets the ON PAPER inflation of the last few years (tho we all know true inflation is drastically higher then 15). Then the 3% year over year will NOT keep up with comming inflation and potential economic downturn. This AIP does not give a raise, and does not protect the pilots in a uncertain economic future. It does not meet the mandate..

And on a side note that I think is extremely confusing to all that are reading it. Is the new WSP changes. And with that here is some food for thought.

Pilots are getting a 15.5% "riase", however they have just come out and stated that the old WSP cash match program is now OVER. That program used to allow pilots at the end of each year to grow their over all wage by 20 plus percent year over year. And that would be CASH in hand!! And guaranteed.. now they will only be given 9.1% that can only be added into their TSFA or RRSP, which will also generate gains. However the big difference here is that the stock market is doing horribly now, the CASH MATCH program guaranteed up to 120% return on investment, I doubt with the rrsp\tsfa option that you will even get a 15% return o investment.. aswell with those funds being put in a rrsp\ tsfa they are locked up fairly tight, not CASH in HAND.. so basically what I'm saying here is that mo matter how the union spins this to try to make it sound positive. It's not. It is a MASSIVE loss, and the losses from loosing g the cash match program almost completely offset the 15.5% raise..

This is a bad bad offer. I hope WJ pilots follow the example set out by AC, and vote thos.down. look out side of your own individual situation, and ask your self if a 737 and 787 pilot deserves 73k salary for year 1-3.. and if your deadhead time is only worth 50%... or if giving swoop pilots a raise is worth loosing the best negotiating power we have ever had, AC is starting negotiations this summer. I for one would like to see a no vote to this AIP, and have AC and WJ together with alpa negotiate TOGETHER, for the first time in history! Take a second and Imagin what that could accomplish. Could be the real deal.

Tell me you didn’t bother to understand the TA, without telling me you didn’t.
Pilots still get their WSP 20% in value but it’s now rerouted to maximize take home pay. The 15.5% raise is not just covering inflation over the past few years, the hourly rates increased by 2% year on year over he past few years as well. Is it the best increase? No, but it’s a lie to say that it’s a 15.5% increase to match inflation. It exceeds inflation.

[Tolip]

100% agree, this AIP is dog poop

Doest meet the moment, and by the end of its term WILL have pilots in the red again/taking losses to inflationary pressures. 15% raise almost exactly meets the ON PAPER inflation of the last few years (tho we all know true inflation is drastically higher then 15). Then the 3% year over year will NOT keep up with comming inflation and potential economic downturn. This AIP does not give a raise, and does not protect the pilots in a uncertain economic future. It does not meet the mandate..

And on a side note that I think is extremely confusing to all that are reading it. Is the new WSP changes. And with that here is some food for thought.

Pilots are getting a 15.5% "riase", however they have just come out and stated that the old WSP cash match program is now OVER. That program used to allow pilots at the end of each year to grow their over all wage by 20 plus percent year over year. And that would be CASH in hand!! And guaranteed.. now they will only be given 9.1% that can only be added into their TSFA or RRSP, which will also generate gains. However the big difference here is that the stock market is doing horribly now, the CASH MATCH program guaranteed up to 120% return on investment, I doubt with the rrsp\tsfa option that you will even get a 15% return o investment.. aswell with those funds being put in a rrsp\ tsfa they are locked up fairly tight, not CASH in HAND.. so basically what I'm saying here is that mo matter how the union spins this to try to make it sound positive. It's not. It is a MASSIVE loss, and the losses from loosing g the cash match program almost completely offset the 15.5% raise..

This is a bad bad offer. I hope WJ pilots follow the example set out by AC, and vote thos.down. look out side of your own individual situation, and ask your self if a 737 and 787 pilot deserves 73k salary for year 1-3.. and if your deadhead time is only worth 50%... or if giving swoop pilots a raise is worth loosing the best negotiating power we have ever had, AC is starting negotiations this summer. I for one would like to see a no vote to this AIP, and have AC and WJ together with alpa negotiate TOGETHER, for the first time in history! Take a second and Imagin what that could accomplish. Could be the real deal.

Tell me you didn’t bother to understand the TA, without telling me you didn’t.
Pilots still get their WSP 20% in value but it’s now rerouted to maximize take home pay. The 15.5% raise is not just covering inflation over the past few years, the hourly rates increased by 2% year on year over he past few years as well. Is it the best increase? No, but it’s a lie to say that it’s a 15.5% increase to match inflation. It exceeds inflation.

Respectfully, many people have calculated this out. And it ALMOST is exactly just an inflationary adjustment however true inflation is faaaaar higher then 15%, so in reality it's still a not a raise. It's a adjustment. And yes I know you can still add your own funds and finances into your WSP to reach a 20% contribution. However now that can ONLY be put into rrsp or tsfa, cash match is gone.. you will NEVER see a 120% guaranteed return on investment in rrsp or tsfa. Never. 15% max. And that difference in returns absolutely will offset ANY 15.5% raise. Really it's just moving money around to give the appearance of a raise from pay check to pay check. Meanwhile at year end pilots with not recieve their guaranteed 20% cash match. Instead it will be locked away in rrsp or tsfa earning meager meager returns

[digits_]

I must say after listening to the Vancouver podcast that the contract is not as horrible as it first seems. Maybe my earlier suspicious were unnecessary.

Might even have voted 'yes' if I were a WestJet pilot.

Also kudos to make that info publicly available.

[Tolip]

I must say after listening to the Vancouver podcast that the contract is not as horrible as it first seems. Maybe my earlier suspicious were unnecessary.

Might even have voted 'yes' if I were a WestJet pilot.

Also kudos to make that info publicly available.

I've watched those podcasts aswell, on thing to keep in mind while watching them is the STRONGLY biased opinions of those that are interviewed. They only interview people that are directly involved in the negotiations, who. Because they accepted this AIP, are now laser focused on hyping it up and getting it voted through. If you listen close you can hear the bias, they never say anything negative about the contract. And put an overly positive spin on thing that do not deserve it.

[Chelsea Handler]

I must say after listening to the Vancouver podcast that the contract is not as horrible as it first seems. Maybe my earlier suspicious were unnecessary.

Might even have voted 'yes' if I were a WestJet pilot.

Also kudos to make that info publicly available.

I've watched those podcasts aswell, on thing to keep in mind while watching them is the STRONGLY biased opinions of those that are interviewed. They only interview people that are directly involved in the negotiations, who. Because they accepted this AIP, are now laser focused on hyping it up and getting it voted through. If you listen close you can hear the bias, they never say anything negative about the contract. And put an overly positive spin on thing that do not deserve it.

Of course, and they say things like “we could have got nothing!”

It’s a sales pitch. Maybe they are right though, this is the best we can get. Miles behind American pilot wages, because we are just Canadian pilots. Maybe it’s becoming more clear, there is such thing as being just a Canadian pilot. The only way to not be a just Canadian pilot is pack your bags and leave for a place that values you more than being just a Canadian. That goes for lots of jobs here for just Canadian folk. Lots of taxes, lots of inflation, lots of immigration, stagnant incomes and degradation of all our public systems.