New payscale

[airbussy]

Gave up striking at the 11th hour for this.

Terrible PCP. Those FO rates are at least. $20-$25/hr short of anywhere close to industry standard PCP.

I'd like to point you to Air Canada's disgusting four year flat pay. That is by far one of the most disgusting things in this industry. It is sickening that it was ever considered okay to do that.

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

[Blackdog0301]

Gave up striking at the 11th hour for this.

Terrible PCP. Those FO rates are at least. $20-$25/hr short of anywhere close to industry standard PCP.

Pay rates are only a part of the contract. I'll take the improvements to scope and everything else that we secured over a few dollars more an hour.

This TA is 264 pages long, our current agreement is 141.

Major pilot shortage and hours from a strike. You should have had scope AND a significant pay increase, its not an either/or situation.

Clearly you haven't worked a day in the shoes of a WestJet pilot. Because this TA has huge improvements and only WestJet pilots can see the gains in this contract. Everyone else looks at only the wages and are disappointed that it can't be used as strong leverage to improve their own pay.

[airbussy]

What happened to being "the tip of the spear"? That's quite literally the message WestJet ALPA was preaching.

[RockSalty]

Speaking to some American friends of mine, quite a few things that are in this TA are on par with what you'd expect down there.

I'm sorry our hourly rates aren't higher so that you folks can use them in your own negotiations, and frankly I'm not super thrilled with them either, but I know I'm not the only one at WestJet that's capable of looking past them to see the other improvements we've gained.

[airbussy]

I'm happy for you guys secured scope and other good things that are standard.

I just find it pretty sad that after months of this whole leading the pack, North American standard rally cries, news articles, picketing etc. this is what the rates end up being. Yes they're better than AC. But that's not hard to do since AC has been stuck in a rediculous ten year deal and with terrible representation for even longer.

I imagine this is going to pass.

[RippleRock]

Did you guys negotiate overseas premiums, night premiums, or nav premiums for the 787? If you didn't the rates aren't significantly different than our top widebody rates currently in place as of April 2023.

American pilots get a $6.50 an hour premium to fly to Canada. Strange, but the got it.

I agree, the 4-year flat pay at AC is an abomination and an insult. Thanks ACPA. That "crapshow of collusion" is going to "keep giving" for a decade or so until we're washed clean of it.

Never forget we -are no more- than a "cost unit" to either Company. Any compensation we get is "hush money", meant to keep us in line. If zero would keep us in place, you can bet 1000% that we would get exactly zero.

[truedude]

Gave up striking at the 11th hour for this.

Terrible PCP. Those FO rates are at least. $20-$25/hr short of anywhere close to industry standard PCP.

I'd like to point you to Air Canada's disgusting four year flat pay. That is by far one of the most disgusting things in this industry. It is sickening that it was ever considered okay to do that.

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

[airbussy]

I hope this is enough to do that. Going to be hard for someone to justify going to AC now and making $60-80/hr for three years. It's the rest of the FO rates that might be hard to justify for someone long term over AC given the opportunity for faster upgrades and WB FO flying pretty early in your career.

[Ash Ketchum]

I'd like to point you to Air Canada's disgusting four year flat pay. That is by far one of the most disgusting things in this industry. It is sickening that it was ever considered okay to do that.

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

Exactly, hoping this increase in pay will force AC to get rid of flat pay to increase recruiting so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills.

[porcsord]

so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills

That is terrifying.

[TFTMB heavy]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

Two are airlines and the other is an IT company?

[Pirep1234]

Agreed. But you should be aiming higher than trying to out do a ten year old contract.

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

Exactly, hoping this increase in pay will force AC to get rid of flat pay to increase recruiting so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills.

Unlikely, AC can lower the pay to $50k and increase flat pay to 6 years and they will still fully staff ground school. #flytheflag

[RippleRock]

Well I am just an observer in this conversation, as I don't work for Westjet. But considering a large number of AC pilots were bottom end Westjet and Swoop pilots, this might dry out a source of pilots. And if you aren't living in your parents basements and have actual bills to pay, might make it more difficult for AC to attract pilots. At least I hope that is the case.

Exactly, hoping this increase in pay will force AC to get rid of flat pay to increase recruiting so that I can finally stop using my HELOC to pay the bills.

Unlikely, AC can lower the pay to $50k and increase flat pay to 6 years and they will still fully staff ground school. #flytheflag

You're rather new here, like extrememly new. Are you trying to make a point?

There is no way our contract WACON and new hire terms, by extension, are going in ANY direction but up. I think every new hire is perfectly aware of that fact. They are ready for change just like every other pilot on the property. They are joining in anticipation of that pay bump, NOT in spite of it.

Four years of flat pay are a travesty and a purposeful insult that will end within the year. Read the writing on the wall. It's not complicated.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Does have a valid point regarding AC not having difficulty to attract new hires. However, pay will go up and more than likely higher than westjet. Things can only get better.

[RippleRock]

.....and everyone knows it. No more than those in the hiring pool.


The insanity of "dead last in the business" 1st year McDonalds shift manager wages for 777 FO's. That joke is ending hard, and quickly. It's a "glitch in the Matrix" that's about to crash into the wall of reality.

[TFTMB heavy]

Stop comparing these rates with Delta and AA, not a fair comparison, very different operations.

Tons of new language in this contract and a scope. That scope is most likely worth more than the new money in the contract.

Two are airlines and the other is an IT company?

I don't understand you question.

[fish4life]

Hopefully we can beat these rates then in 3 1/2 years when WJ is up again for negots they can pass us and we can finally do what the Americans have been doing for years

[Joe Blow Schmo]

Why is step 3 787 FO lower than step 3 737 FO? All the other 787 steps are higher than their equivalent 737 step.

[airbussy]

Why is step 3 787 FO lower than step 3 737 FO? All the other 787 steps are higher than their equivalent 737 step.

Yeah I just noticed that. Typo?