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In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 2:40 pm
by gopherblack
Hi,
Anticipating offers from both jazz and encore as I'm at the final stages of application, late 1300 tt 704 op, have all the PIC time for ATPL just waiting on reaching tt. Would you go to encore or jazz in 2023 if AC/flair/cargojet is your end goal?
Encore seems like a no brainer in terms of pay and socialized bidding but jazz has guaranteed interview at AC.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:17 pm
by goleafsgo
AC has been taking a lot of encore pilots
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Mon May 29, 2023 5:51 pm
by gopherblack
goleafsgo wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:17 pm
AC has been taking a lot of encore pilots
yeah thats the plan for me
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 6:36 am
by GIVCE!
If you decide to come to jazz you will wait years for your shot to go to AC atm…. They are not honouring specific items they have agreed to in the collective agreement. Do not trust AC or Jazz.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 9:35 am
by canadian_aviator_4
GIVCE! wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 6:36 am
If you decide to come to jazz you will wait years for your shot to go to AC atm…. They are not honouring specific items they have agreed to in the collective agreement. Do not trust AC or Jazz.
+1
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:52 pm
by flyinhigh
gopherblack wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:40 pm
Hi,
Anticipating offers from both jazz and encore as I'm at the final stages of application, late 1300 tt 704 op, have all the PIC time for ATPL just waiting on reaching tt. Would you go to encore or jazz in 2023 if AC/flair/cargojet is your end goal?
Encore seems like a no brainer in terms of pay and socialized bidding but
jazz has guaranteed interview at AC.
Oh young grasshopper, nothing is guaranteed in Aviation.
Also, it is that exact thought why the company won’t pony up and pay pilots more money.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 8:03 pm
by YC87DRVR
None of the above. Porter and then AC if you so choose or stay if you don’t. Stay farrrrrr away from WJ.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 pm
by gopherblack
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:52 pm
gopherblack wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:40 pm
Hi,
Anticipating offers from both jazz and encore as I'm at the final stages of application, late 1300 tt 704 op, have all the PIC time for ATPL just waiting on reaching tt. Would you go to encore or jazz in 2023 if AC/flair/cargojet is your end goal?
Encore seems like a no brainer in terms of pay and socialized bidding but
jazz has guaranteed interview at AC.
Oh young grasshopper, nothing is guaranteed in Aviation.
Also, it is that exact thought why the company won’t pony up and pay pilots more money.
That's fair but if you only had these two choices, where would you go?
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 pm
by gopherblack
YC87DRVR wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:03 pm
None of the above. Porter and then AC if you so choose or stay if you don’t. Stay farrrrrr away from WJ.
Porter never called me, the choice is between encore or jazz fwiw
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:09 am
by flyinhigh
gopherblack wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 pm
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:52 pm
gopherblack wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:40 pm
Hi,
Anticipating offers from both jazz and encore as I'm at the final stages of application, late 1300 tt 704 op, have all the PIC time for ATPL just waiting on reaching tt. Would you go to encore or jazz in 2023 if AC/flair/cargojet is your end goal?
Encore seems like a no brainer in terms of pay and socialized bidding but
jazz has guaranteed interview at AC.
Oh young grasshopper, nothing is guaranteed in Aviation.
Also, it is that exact thought why the company won’t pony up and pay pilots more money.
That's fair but if you only had these two choices, where would you go?
Can’t say at present time I would go to either.
The deductions on payroll at Jazz make buying a box of KD impossible (no I’m not kidding, ask around). At Encore, you are entering into one of the most toxic companies in the country, a company that has proven time and again it just does not give two shits about the employees.
If you’ve exhausted all options, than I guess I’d say Jazz as there is a future having a diverse fleet.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:43 pm
by gopherblack
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:09 am
gopherblack wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 pm
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:52 pm
Oh young grasshopper, nothing is guaranteed in Aviation.
Also, it is that exact thought why the company won’t pony up and pay pilots more money.
That's fair but if you only had these two choices, where would you go?
Can’t say at present time I would go to either.
The deductions on payroll at Jazz make buying a box of KD impossible (no I’m not kidding, ask around). At Encore, you are entering into one of the most toxic companies in the country, a company that has proven time and again it just does not give two shits about the employees.
If you’ve exhausted all options, than I guess I’d say Jazz as there is a future having a diverse fleet.
Haha okay fair enough, that seems a pretty negative opinion of encore even though they're paying more than jazz to start
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:40 am
by flyinhigh
gopherblack wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:43 pm
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:09 am
gopherblack wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:30 pm
That's fair but if you only had these two choices, where would you go?
Can’t say at present time I would go to either.
The deductions on payroll at Jazz make buying a box of KD impossible (no I’m not kidding, ask around). At Encore, you are entering into one of the most toxic companies in the country, a company that has proven time and again it just does not give two shits about the employees.
If you’ve exhausted all options, than I guess I’d say Jazz as there is a future having a diverse fleet.
Haha okay fair enough, that seems a pretty negative opinion of encore even though they're paying more than jazz to start
I’ve worked for both. One thing you will learn as you go through your career is that it is not all about money. What’s the point in making 300 you’re never home and don’t have benefits.
The Jazz contract is significantly stronger (one of the best in Canada), and in the end you will make more than Encore and work less.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:49 am
by gopherblack
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 5:40 am
gopherblack wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:43 pm
flyinhigh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:09 am
Can’t say at present time I would go to either.
The deductions on payroll at Jazz make buying a box of KD impossible (no I’m not kidding, ask around). At Encore, you are entering into one of the most toxic companies in the country, a company that has proven time and again it just does not give two shits about the employees.
If you’ve exhausted all options, than I guess I’d say Jazz as there is a future having a diverse fleet.
Haha okay fair enough, that seems a pretty negative opinion of encore even though they're paying more than jazz to start
I’ve worked for both. One thing you will learn as you go through your career is that it is not all about money. What’s the point in making 300 you’re never home and don’t have benefits.
The Jazz contract is significantly stronger (one of the best in Canada), and in the end you will make more than Encore and work less.
Yeah that's true, I agree with your sentiment. Only if Jazz raises their pay, I would be able to afford an apartment and live a bit more peacefully. Right now it's not possible with their pay, maybe I can upgrade their soon
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2023 8:53 am
by Mountainwave
gopherblack wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 2:40 pm
Hi,
Anticipating offers from both jazz and encore as I'm at the final stages of application, late 1300 tt 704 op, have all the PIC time for ATPL just waiting on reaching tt. Would you go to encore or jazz in 2023 if AC/flair/cargojet is your end goal?
Encore seems like a no brainer in terms of pay and socialized bidding but jazz has guaranteed interview at AC.
Encore is another good stepping stone. The MOA4 helps pad the pocket while you build some more time. The legs are short, the Western flying is fun, it will get you to where you want to go in the future.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:18 pm
by flyndad
Do Jazz include a Sim assessment in their hiring process as I am aware that Encore do not?
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:54 pm
by JBI
In the words of that epic Canadian Band Trooper: If you're here for a good time, not a long time (and you want to live in YYC), Encore is a good option.
As you've outlined, it is NOT a career spot. The industry is good right now and while I expect it to continue that way for the foreseeable future, you never know. I would argue that if you live in YUL, YYZ and YVR Jazz is a much better place to get 'stuck' than Encore. Now keep in mind, most of the Encore pilots that AC has been hiring do have 3-5 years experience on the Q. There are some that are newer, but the reality is, it'll be a couple years of 705 flying before you're competitive for AC and trying to guess what this industry will be like in 3-5 years isn't easy.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:48 pm
by canadian_aviator_4
JBI wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:54 pm
In the words of that epic Canadian Band Trooper: If you're here for a good time, not a long time (and you want to live in YYC), Encore is a good option.
As you've outlined, it is NOT a career spot. The industry is good right now and while I expect it to continue that way for the foreseeable future, you never know. I would argue that if you live in YUL, YYZ and YVR Jazz is a much better place to get 'stuck' than Encore. Now keep in mind, most of the Encore pilots that AC has been hiring do have 3-5 years experience on the Q. There are some that are newer, but the reality is, it'll be a couple years of 705 flying before you're competitive for AC and trying to guess what this industry will be like in 3-5 years isn't easy.
Ac is hiring anyone with an atpl and 2000 hrs, plus a bit of 705 time, maybe. Just as long as you are not employed by jazz you are good.
Re: In 2023, would you go Jazz or encore if WJ mainline isn't your end goal?
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:33 pm
by JBI
canadian_aviator_4 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:48 pm
JBI wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:54 pm
…. most of the Encore pilots that AC has been hiring do have 3-5 years experience on the Q. There are some that are newer, but the reality is, it'll be a couple years of 705 flying before you're competitive for AC and trying to guess what this industry will be like in 3-5 years isn't easy.
Ac is hiring anyone with an atpl and 2000 hrs, plus a bit of 705 time, maybe. Just as long as you are not employed by jazz you are good.
While I can’t speak to the experience level of AC’s other new hires, I have pretty accurate knowledge of who AC has been hiring from Encore and I stand by my statement. While AC has hired some Encore FOs, most of the Encore pilots going to AC are Captains. Whether that’s because of their experience or strategic hiring on AC’s part, who knows?
Edited to add: AC has been very apt at hiring recently upgraded Encore Captains.