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Medevac operators might be interested, but your lack of PR card will be the main reason you don't get much interest. The few people I know that went the work permit route basically all were stuck instructing until they got their PR.

I can also confirm what digits said as I know a few people in the same spot, who had way more hours (albeit not during the hiring madness that is going on now) and they do could not find any flying job other then instructing until they got their PR

You can’t have a RAIC (security clearance) unless you’re a PR or higher..simple as that. Direct from the TC website..search RAIC eligibility.

Timetoflyagain wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:38 pm You can’t have a RAIC (security clearance) unless you’re a PR or higher..simple as that. Direct from the TC website..search RAIC eligibility.

It says if not a PR then you can use work permit to apply

Timetoflyagain wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:38 pm You can’t have a RAIC (security clearance) unless you’re a PR or higher..simple as that. Direct from the TC website..search RAIC eligibility.

And when you do google that, it will tell you this
========
Identification documents

You need to prove that you’re legally allowed to work in Canada. Depending on your situation, you’ll need your:

Canadian birth certificate
Canadian citizenship certificate
registration of birth abroad certificate
confirmation that you are a permanent resident
valid work permit, or valid visitor record (if you didn’t qualify for a work permit)
valid study permit that allows you to work off-campus
legal documents that show any name change (like a marriage certificate, official registration or legal declaration of name change, adoption papers)
Indian status card

========

So the work permit will suffice if you are not a pr.

I would suggest trying 703/704 or Medevacs in MB. Lots of operators there require pilots. Try going to the PCC website and searching for different operators there. Even if it's Navajo or Caravan it will improve your resume significantly. Try Vanguard/Fast, Perimeter, SkyNorth, Wings over kississing, etc. Search for operators in St Andrews Airport as there are lots of opportunities. I know it might be not what you would like however some of those flying is fun and you can meet lots of good people who would help you out.

There are also options in NW Ontario- Ornge, Superior, Wasaya, North Star. Sometimes finding the right person on LinkedIn or a friend who knows somebody who works there is absolutely crucial.

Some people who make it to 705 would never go back but I do miss that flying and people who I met-colleagues, passengers, some float pilots who fly NORDO, and especially loaders who tend to start packing the rwy when you are on final. It was a good time

Good luck!

Thank you of the suggestions

I've been applying since a month and I only got 1 phone call from one of the medevacs that you mentioned
Will keep trying

Its very hard without a PR. I was in the same situation albeit during covid but with 7000hrs on WB and narrow body jet. I was offered an interview with Flair, but they told me that I would have to wait in the pool until I have a PR before they can offer me a class date.
I think it has more to do with the fact that the work permit is time limited.

Time to cancel all the jobs for Canadians flying overseas on work permits around the world.

What is good for the goose must also be good for the gander.
Serious hypocrisy. Couldn't expect anything more from elitist Canadians could we.

Elitist Canadians? If you hate us so much how about f***ing off then.

How many Canadians do you think will get thired, even during a shortage, if they would tell their future employer they can only stick around for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?

Even the crappy operators somehow think you'll stay there forever. If you don't convince them during the interview you have every intention of staying forever, you're unlikely to get the job. Even during a shortage. And especially in the sub-ATPL realm of jobs.

It has nothing to do with the exact piece of paper, only with the timing restriction. And yes, you may know it can/will be extended. Potential employers don't see it that way - yet.

digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:01 pm How many Canadians do you think will get thired, even during a shortage, if they would tell their future employer they can only stick around for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?

Even the crappy operators somehow think you'll stay there forever. If you don't convince them during the interview you have every intention of staying forever, you're unlikely to get the job. Even during a shortage. And especially in the sub-ATPL realm of jobs.

It has nothing to do with the exact piece of paper, only with the timing restriction. And yes, you may know it can/will be extended. Potential employers don't see it that way - yet.

But then why is it different for all the other countries. NIW, H1B, E1B in the US, contracts in Asia, Africa,l and the ME, work permits in Australia, New Zealand. All those countries work through that issue. Canada should be no different. We should have the same rules for others that we expect for ourselves.

There really is no excuse

The Champ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 4:25 pm Elitist Canadians? If you hate us so much how about f***ing off then.

Lol, I am a Canadian that has spent many years working contracts overseas. No doubt for longer than you have been alive.

It's about time we be as welcoming to others as they are to us. The fact that we make people jump through hoops, pay lots of money to get a WORK visa, then not allow them to WORK here like they do for us when we go to their countries, shows that some of us think we are different / better than them.

I was talking about certain Canadians that think that way. It's seems obvious from your rather aggressive reaction you were thinking I was talking about you personally. If the hat fits...

digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:01 pm How many Canadians do you think will get thired, even during a shortage, if they would tell their future employer they can only stick around for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?

Even the crappy operators somehow think you'll stay there forever. If you don't convince them during the interview you have every intention of staying forever, you're unlikely to get the job. Even during a shortage. And especially in the sub-ATPL realm of jobs.

It has nothing to do with the exact piece of paper, only with the timing restriction. And yes, you may know it can/will be extended. Potential employers don't see it that way - yet.

Exactly. The work permit is very easily extendable if you're employed. It's only a matter of HR of the respective company writing a letter for you. Clearly even that is too much work for most. I pulled every string I could back then explaining it all back and forth and highlighting the ease of the process, not a chance.

I rarely reply to posts, but I felt I needed to say something. I’m an immigrant myself, came to this country about 25 years ago as a young, qualified technician. I have lived and somehow survived several downturns...Sept 11, the financial meltdown in 2009, couple layoffs and a bankruptcy. Worked all kind of jobs, from cleaning toilets and working warehouse jobs during my years of college ( working 32 hours a week and going full time to school ), to engineering jobs at major OEM. I even went the flight school route, but it was right after sept 11, and decided to do something else after getting through flight training .., and I even got my younger brother into the business, and he now flies left seat for an airline. Canada isn’t a walk in the park as some of you might think. When things are good, jobs are plentiful, and wages tend to improve, when things go bad.....they’re bad. We don’t have the same market as the US, both markets can not be compared for a lot of reasons that are beyond the scope of this discussion. It’s a small market here, and a lot of people are competing for the same few well paid jobs ( so to speak ). I wish they were the same, there’s so much wealth in this country, this place can easily be better than the US. Let’s not fool ourselves here, anyone who moved here and want to stay here, it’s typically because they have NO OTHER BETTER OPTION. if you did, you wouldn’t bother, and you’ll go and that’s absolutely fine and normal. Coming back to the topic, I say Anyone who’s got a work permit today, is able to earn a living , it doesn’t matter if you think it’s not that great of a wage and conditions, you’re still earning and surviving on that, and you have the ability to get a PR eventually, should be plenty grateful for that fact, and be patient until you become a permanent resident and gets full benefits. 20 years ago, you couldn’t even dream of even getting a work permit following flight training, work permits and the ability to a PR while staying and working in the country was extremely difficult unless you had special skills in some specific fields of study....and flight training was definitely not one of them. Remember, you walk into a flight school, and no one even ask you if you have a high school diploma !!! As for the other countries, whether or not they offer you more or less is on them, every country has its own rules, no one force us to come here, and we’re certainly free to go if we can get better and think it’s better somewhere else.

eyebrow737 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:46 pm

digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:01 pm How many Canadians do you think will get thired, even during a shortage, if they would tell their future employer they can only stick around for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?

Even the crappy operators somehow think you'll stay there forever. If you don't convince them during the interview you have every intention of staying forever, you're unlikely to get the job. Even during a shortage. And especially in the sub-ATPL realm of jobs.

It has nothing to do with the exact piece of paper, only with the timing restriction. And yes, you may know it can/will be extended. Potential employers don't see it that way - yet.

But then why is it different for all the other countries. NIW, H1B, E1B in the US, contracts in Asia, Africa,l and the ME, work permits in Australia, New Zealand. All those countries work through that issue. Canada should be no different. We should have the same rules for others that we expect for ourselves.

There really is no excuse

Because those other countries actually really need pilots with certain qualifications, and they fly in positions where those qualifications are actually being used.

If you show up at AC with 10k 737 hours, you'll be an FO on flat pay. Your competition are Canadians/PR holders meeting the hiring minima, which is around 2000 hours.

The companies that don't care about the PR, are companies who actually can't find pilots anymore, such as medevac companies needing to meet government requirements. They will look into the requirements and go 'oh, it can be extended, cool'. See example in some previous posts.

Most airlines are still in the phase 'we can't find pilots with XXXX hours, I guess we'll have to lower our requirments to YYYY'. At some point, that will stop, and that's when you'll see more of them accepting temporary work permits.

Vickers vanguard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:20 am I rarely reply to posts, but I felt I needed to say something. I’m an immigrant myself, came to this country about 25 years ago as a young, qualified technician. I have lived and somehow survived several downturns...Sept 11, the financial meltdown in 2009, couple layoffs and a bankruptcy. Worked all kind of jobs, from cleaning toilets and working warehouse jobs during my years of college ( working 32 hours a week and going full time to school ), to engineering jobs at major OEM. I even went the flight school route, but it was right after sept 11, and decided to do something else after getting through flight training .., and I even got my younger brother into the business, and he now flies left seat for an airline. Canada isn’t a walk in the park as some of you might think. When things are good, jobs are plentiful, and wages tend to improve, when things go bad.....they’re bad. We don’t have the same market as the US, both markets can not be compared for a lot of reasons that are beyond the scope of this discussion. It’s a small market here, and a lot of people are competing for the same few well paid jobs ( so to speak ). I wish they were the same, there’s so much wealth in this country, this place can easily be better than the US. Let’s not fool ourselves here, anyone who moved here and want to stay here, it’s typically because they have NO OTHER BETTER OPTION. if you did, you wouldn’t bother, and you’ll go and that’s absolutely fine and normal. Coming back to the topic, I say Anyone who’s got a work permit today, is able to earn a living , it doesn’t matter if you think it’s not that great of a wage and conditions, you’re still earning and surviving on that, and you have the ability to get a PR eventually, should be plenty grateful for that fact, and be patient until you become a permanent resident and gets full benefits. 20 years ago, you couldn’t even dream of even getting a work permit following flight training, work permits and the ability to a PR while staying and working in the country was extremely difficult unless you had special skills in some specific fields of study....and flight training was definitely not one of them. Remember, you walk into a flight school, and no one even ask you if you have a high school diploma !!! As for the other countries, whether or not they offer you more or less is on them, every country has its own rules, no one force us to come here, and we’re certainly free to go if we can get better and think it’s better somewhere else.

I just have a question, in what way could we “easily be better than the US”?
You seem to imply the wealth in Canada could steer us that way, I’m just not sure how that could happen with our taxes.
Discretionary spending drives a lot of the economy, at the end of the day, I make a good living but pay more in taxes than most people make in salary.
This is Canada, it’s a Robin Hood country, stealing from the “rich” to give to the poor, we will never be better than that, the reality is the taxes only go one way, up! That will hold us back, I should have a far better lifestyle at my salary than I do and would go to the US if I could, wouldn’t even have to think about!

Vickers vanguard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:20 am I rarely reply to posts, but I felt I needed to say something. I’m an immigrant myself, came to this country about 25 years ago as a young, qualified technician. I have lived and somehow survived several downturns...Sept 11, the financial meltdown in 2009, couple layoffs and a bankruptcy. Worked all kind of jobs, from cleaning toilets and working warehouse jobs during my years of college ( working 32 hours a week and going full time to school ), to engineering jobs at major OEM. I even went the flight school route, but it was right after sept 11, and decided to do something else after getting through flight training .., and I even got my younger brother into the business, and he now flies left seat for an airline. Canada isn’t a walk in the park as some of you might think. When things are good, jobs are plentiful, and wages tend to improve, when things go bad.....they’re bad. We don’t have the same market as the US, both markets can not be compared for a lot of reasons that are beyond the scope of this discussion. It’s a small market here, and a lot of people are competing for the same few well paid jobs ( so to speak ). I wish they were the same, there’s so much wealth in this country, this place can easily be better than the US. Let’s not fool ourselves here, anyone who moved here and want to stay here, it’s typically because they have NO OTHER BETTER OPTION. if you did, you wouldn’t bother, and you’ll go and that’s absolutely fine and normal. Coming back to the topic, I say Anyone who’s got a work permit today, is able to earn a living , it doesn’t matter if you think it’s not that great of a wage and conditions, you’re still earning and surviving on that, and you have the ability to get a PR eventually, should be plenty grateful for that fact, and be patient until you become a permanent resident and gets full benefits. 20 years ago, you couldn’t even dream of even getting a work permit following flight training, work permits and the ability to a PR while staying and working in the country was extremely difficult unless you had special skills in some specific fields of study....and flight training was definitely not one of them. Remember, you walk into a flight school, and no one even ask you if you have a high school diploma !!! As for the other countries, whether or not they offer you more or less is on them, every country has its own rules, no one force us to come here, and we’re certainly free to go if we can get better and think it’s better somewhere else.

I agree to this in part. However keep in mind that we're not only talking about people who finished their flight training, but also partners whose spouse is canadian and who are waiting for their PR to be processed. I appreciate you having a go at all the "entitled" flying school graduates, but please don't throw all eggs in the same basket...

Vickers vanguard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 06, 2023 8:20 am I rarely reply to posts, but I felt I needed to say something. I’m an immigrant myself, came to this country about 25 years ago as a young, qualified technician. I have lived and somehow survived several downturns...Sept 11, the financial meltdown in 2009, couple layoffs and a bankruptcy. Worked all kind of jobs, from cleaning toilets and working warehouse jobs during my years of college ( working 32 hours a week and going full time to school ), to engineering jobs at major OEM. I even went the flight school route, but it was right after sept 11, and decided to do something else after getting through flight training .., and I even got my younger brother into the business, and he now flies left seat for an airline. Canada isn’t a walk in the park as some of you might think. When things are good, jobs are plentiful, and wages tend to improve, when things go bad.....they’re bad. We don’t have the same market as the US, both markets can not be compared for a lot of reasons that are beyond the scope of this discussion. It’s a small market here, and a lot of people are competing for the same few well paid jobs ( so to speak ). I wish they were the same, there’s so much wealth in this country, this place can easily be better than the US. Let’s not fool ourselves here, anyone who moved here and want to stay here, it’s typically because they have NO OTHER BETTER OPTION. if you did, you wouldn’t bother, and you’ll go and that’s absolutely fine and normal. Coming back to the topic, I say Anyone who’s got a work permit today, is able to earn a living , it doesn’t matter if you think it’s not that great of a wage and conditions, you’re still earning and surviving on that, and you have the ability to get a PR eventually, should be plenty grateful for that fact, and be patient until you become a permanent resident and gets full benefits. 20 years ago, you couldn’t even dream of even getting a work permit following flight training, work permits and the ability to a PR while staying and working in the country was extremely difficult unless you had special skills in some specific fields of study....and flight training was definitely not one of them. Remember, you walk into a flight school, and no one even ask you if you have a high school diploma !!! As for the other countries, whether or not they offer you more or less is on them, every country has its own rules, no one force us to come here, and we’re certainly free to go if we can get better and think it’s better somewhere else.

Well, gather around for the saga of the perplexed spouses, yanked from the ever-so-eloquent world of English-speaking lands and plonked right smack dab in the middle of the Great White North. Trapped in an enforced vacation, they have little to do but admire the inescapable beauty of... well, snow. Among them, we find veteran air-jockeys, ones who could commandeer a wide-body aircraft as easily as they might carve up a butter tart. Quite the crowd, eh?

The sour note in this seemingly sweet deal? Watching their fellow beavers waddle off to their home countries, grinning like the cat that got the cream, brandishing their work permits as if they'd just bagged the lead in a new season of "How I Met Your Moose". Meanwhile, Canadian firms, with a sense of caution as heavy as a winter parka, seem to have adopted a less-than-inviting policy, something along the lines of "our igloo, not your igloo."

Contrary to popular belief, Canada’s expansive welcome doesn't extend exclusively to the folks from developing countries. No siree, the true picture is as varied as the flavors in a Nanaimo bar. They’ve got people trading the champagne life from all corners of the globe for a place where milk is sold in bags and they actually named their dollar coins "Loonies" and "Toonies."

Now, this worn-out idea that living in Canada is like being showered with ticker-tape every day is about as outdated as dial-up internet. It suggests that one should feel tickled pink about swapping a jet-setting career for the honor of donning thermal underwear eight months out of the year.

The previous commenter, ever so accurate, pointed out the subtle scent of Canadian caution, a protective streak so sticky, you'd think it had been soaked in maple syrup. It seems to restrain their pace in the global relay race.

It's a tale that's been told since the dawning of dual citizenship. I came here, following my other half, brimming with eagerness to contribute to the Canadian landscape. Yet, they decided I was better off playing the role of 'patient spouse' for two years, a time that felt as long as a Canadian winter.

My wife, a true-blue Canuck and a healer of considerable standing, found herself playing a frustrating game of Snakes and Ladders with the Canadian certification system. After 18 months, more tiring than a polar bear's swim, she packed up her stethoscope, her American qualifications misinterpreted in the Canadian context.

This journey, full of patience-testing detours, serves a double shot of Canadian prudence, mixed with an icy immigration system that seems in no rush. The queues are longer than a winter night in Yellowknife, and the waiting times have become the punchline of a never-ending Canadian joke. It’s like waiting for a beaver to finish building its dam, only to realize he's lost the blueprints. It’s more than just a joke; it's a stand-up comedy special without an intermission.

digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 04, 2023 5:01 pm How many Canadians do you think will get thired, even during a shortage, if they would tell their future employer they can only stick around for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years?

Even the crappy operators somehow think you'll stay there forever. If you don't convince them during the interview you have every intention of staying forever, you're unlikely to get the job. Even during a shortage. And especially in the sub-ATPL realm of jobs.

It has nothing to do with the exact piece of paper, only with the timing restriction. And yes, you may know it can/will be extended. Potential employers don't see it that way - yet.

if you hire a work permit holder you know for sure that they will stick around for a while, applying for a permanent residency takes at least 1 year nowadays, why don't employers see it that way ?

tupues wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:51 pm Its very hard without a PR. I was in the same situation albeit during covid but with 7000hrs on WB and narrow body jet. I was offered an interview with Flair, but they told me that I would have to wait in the pool until I have a PR before they can offer me a class date.
I think it has more to do with the fact that the work permit is time limited.

Have you been applying for Medevacs back then with no luck as well ?

fox12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:05 pm

tupues wrote: ↑Mon Jul 03, 2023 10:51 pm Its very hard without a PR. I was in the same situation albeit during covid but with 7000hrs on WB and narrow body jet. I was offered an interview with Flair, but they told me that I would have to wait in the pool until I have a PR before they can offer me a class date.
I think it has more to do with the fact that the work permit is time limited.

Have you been applying for Medevacs back then with no luck as well ?

Yes and yes. Albeit with a family I was somewhat tied up geographically, more so than a single 20 year old youngster ready for any adventure.

I cannot relate to not having a job on a work permit.

I have worked at 703's and a 705 on a work permit - I have had colleagues with similar immigration status. I have had 3 jobs as a pilot while on a work permit. I was forthcoming on my resume, and received multiple job offers (atleast while I had an ATPL).

For my first job I contacted every operator in the province, sent Emails and then followed up by calling them if I received no reply. Even when I was between work permits (I had no status), I still had a 703 that wanted to hire me.

I can also confirm that you can hold a RAIC while on a work permit.

This isn't to take away from your experiences, but just to add mine.

JaringtonT wrote: ↑Sun Jul 09, 2023 2:34 pm I cannot relate to not having a job on a work permit.

I have worked at 703's and a 705 on a work permit - I have had colleagues with similar immigration status. I have had 3 jobs as a pilot while on a work permit. I was forthcoming on my resume, and received multiple job offers (atleast while I had an ATPL).

For my first job I contacted every operator in the province, sent Emails and then followed up by calling them if I received no reply. Even when I was between work permits (I had no status), I still had a 703 that wanted to hire me.

I can also confirm that you can hold a RAIC while on a work permit.

This isn't to take away from your experiences, but just to add mine.

Nice! That actually gives me hope