C150 down near ottawa

[rigpiggy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/i ... -1.6919045

[BigQ]

Drove past the airport the following morning, wreckage was already removed. It was C-GFFG, a Lachute aviation aircraft.

Attached is approximate location of wreckage. Winds that day were from the West, gusty. I saw a picture of the site and it appeared a low energy, wing level impact, tail boom was bent down

[BigQ]

Word in my hometown was a large pitch-up moment shortly after takeoff. The 2nd, critically injured occupant's condition is not improving.

[pelmet]

Word in my hometown was a large pitch-up moment shortly after takeoff. The 2nd, critically injured occupant's condition is not improving.

TSB is saying partial engine failure as the initiating cause…….They can be tricky to handle. If you treat like a normal engine, it can get you into trouble. If you treat it like a complete failure(while still using partial power), it can’t get you in trouble. It appears that this pilot may have tried both.



C-GFFG, a privately registered Cessna 150B aircraft, was conducting circuits at Alexandria, Ontario (CNS4) with two pilots on board: a private pilot and an instructor pilot. Shortly after taking off from Runway 25, the aircraft experienced a partial engine power loss. A 180-degree return was accomplished, and the aircraft was repositioned over runway 07, but significantly down the runway. Engine power was re-applied, and the aircraft began to climb again. Shortly afterwards, the engine power decreased more considerably; the aircraft entered a steep right bank, followed by a steep nose down attitude and impact with terrain. The aircraft was destroyed, one person was fatally injured, and one received serious injuries. TSB deployed to the

[Big Pistons Forever]

Partial engine failures, especially at low altitudes can be very hard to manage. If the engine just stops the situation is pretty unambiguous, but if it partially fails there are often suddenly many possible options.

Picking the right one under stress and in a time compressed situation is a non trivial problem.
That being said as a general rule never try to go around with a sick engine. Close the throttle and take your lumps straight ahead.

Despite the fact that data suggests that partial engine failures are up to 3 times more prevalent than total engine failures, this emergency is often not discussed or practiced in flight training. It should be.

[cdnavater]

Partial engine failures, especially at low altitudes can be very hard to manage. If the engine just stops the situation is pretty unambiguous, but if it partially fails there are often suddenly many possible options.

Picking the right one under stress and in a time compressed situation is a non trivial problem.
That being said as a general rule never try to go around with a sick engine. Close the throttle and take your lumps straight ahead.

Despite the fact that data suggests that partial engine failures are up to 3 times more prevalent than total engine failures, this emergency is often not discussed or practiced in flight training. It should be.

Yes, this should be discussed, the variable is the amount of power loss which can give you some time to analyze the situation,
Ie; are we able to maintain altitude or only losing 100 fpm, this can dictate your actions, like a return.
I once had a partial loss in a Cherokee, I was able to maintain a 500’ circuit to a return, unable to climb but not losing altitude, so returned uneventfully other than a low circuit at night.

[CpnCrunch]

The first step in a partial engine loss -- especially in a 150 -- is to turn the carb heat on.

[RoAF-Mig21]

The first step in a partial engine loss -- especially in a 150 -- is to turn the carb heat on.

Fair enough, but do you think this was a "Carb heat" issue?

From the report (see quote below), it mentions they were doing circuits. I doubt that's would be an issue at 1000' AGL. What's that around, 1300 ft ASL?. I don't know exactly the elevation of that airfield.

"C-GFFG, a privately registered Cessna 150B aircraft, was conducting circuits at Alexandria, Ontario (CNS4) with two pilots on board..."

[CpnCrunch]

From the report (see quote below), it mentions they were doing circuits. I doubt that's would be an issue at 1000' AGL. What's that around, 1300 ft ASL?. I don't know exactly the elevation of that airfield.

"C-GFFG, a privately registered Cessna 150B aircraft, was conducting circuits at Alexandria, Ontario (CNS4) with two pilots on board..."

There is no mention in the report of them applying carb heat. Perhaps they thought it unlikely, like you. Can you explain your reasoning?

Typically carb ice appears at full throttle, around 500-1000ft after takeoff. The common but incorrect belief that it doesn't happen at full power is based on a faulty understanding of the physics, and ignorance of the facts (i.e. if you fly the damn thing anywhere other than the prairies, you'll know!) An instructor should know about carb heat.

[RoAF-Mig21]

There is no mention in the report of them applying carb heat. Perhaps they thought it unlikely, like you. Can you explain your reasoning?

Typically carb ice appears at full throttle, around 500-1000ft after takeoff. The common but incorrect belief that it doesn't happen at full power is based on a faulty understanding of the physics, and ignorance of the facts (i.e. if you fly the damn thing anywhere other than the prairies, you'll know!) An instructor should know about carb heat.

It's been a while since I've flown anything with a "Carb heat". (Piper Tomahawk, back in 2001).

I think I should remind myself that carburator icing may occur when one "may not expect it". I'll refrain from sounding any dumber than I am, so I'll open up "From the Ground Up" that I've saved all these year. Perhaps it's a good time to read up on it, over a cup of coffee.

[CpnCrunch]

With 172s you virtually never get carb icing. The 150 is a pretty special case, as it happens so often.

[pelmet]

With 172s you virtually never get carb icing. The 150 is a pretty special case, as it happens so often.

Based on the design of the engine and where the carb is located in terms of receiving general heat from the engine....or so I have read.

[boeingboy]

With 172s you virtually never get carb icing. The 150 is a pretty special case, as it happens so often.

Based on the design of the engine and where the carb is located in terms of receiving general heat from the engine....or so I have read.

Continental powered 172's are extremally susceptible to carb ice.

[boeingboy]

Just saw a pic of the crash and the flaps were still what appeared to be full out (40 degrees) weird if they were going around and trying to climb

[pelmet]

With 172s you virtually never get carb icing. The 150 is a pretty special case, as it happens so often.

Based on the design of the engine and where the carb is located in terms of receiving general heat from the engine....or so I have read.

Continental powered 172's are extremally susceptible to carb ice.

Good point. I believe it is mostly a Continental versus Lycoming issue(for the main manufacturers.

I was flying a carbureted Rotax today and wondered exactly that, when I tested the carb heat and it gave its usual very small drop. I think that they are not overly susceptible to ice but I would be curious to know what others have experienced on type. I believe that a different method is used for carb heat on the Rotax.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Shortly afterwards, the engine power decreased more considerably; the aircraft entered a steep right bank, followed by a steep nose down attitude and impact with terrain. The aircraft was destroyed, one person was fatally injured, and one received serious injuries. TSB deployed to the

Yikes. I get the initial fright and subsequent wanting to put her down but I genuinely think that FTU’s are still teaching the «look that field is yellow so it’s better than a green field »

Rather than « Son, hit her straight and level at minimum forward speed. The insurance company bought her back there » kinda thing.

TPC

[Big Pistons Forever]

Shortly afterwards, the engine power decreased more considerably; the aircraft entered a steep right bank, followed by a steep nose down attitude and impact with terrain. The aircraft was destroyed, one person was fatally injured, and one received serious injuries. TSB deployed to the

Yikes. I get the initial fright and subsequent wanting to put her down but I genuinely think that FTU’s are still teaching the «look that field is yellow so it’s better than a green field »

Rather than « Son, hit her straight and level at minimum forward speed. The insurance company bought her back there » kinda thing.

TPC

Exactly

[pelmet]

A different partial power loss reported here by the TSB...

C-GYJJ, a Montair Aviation Incorporated Cessna 152, was conducting a local training flight under
visual flight rules from Pitt Meadows Airport (CYPK), BC, with 1 pilot and 1 passenger on board. At
1336 Pacific Daylight Time it was reported that the aircraft engine (Lycoming O-235-L2C) began to
run rough, with a vibration observed of the instrument panel. A gradual decrease in engine RPM
followed. Full power was subsequently commanded via throttle input but was not achieved by the
engine. The power produced by the engine was not sufficient to maintain altitude. The pilot
contacted CYPK tower and advised air traffic control (ATC) that the aircraft was experiencing
engine issues. ATC cleared the aircraft for a straight-in approach to Runway 18. The aircraft
engine continued to lose power, and the pilot elected to perform a precautionary landing north of
CYPK after determining they would be unable to reach the airport. The engine subsequently lost all
power, and a forced landing was performed. The aircraft landed in a field, approximately 4.7
nautical miles northeast of CYPK. During the landing roll, the aircraft descended an embankment
into a water filled ditch, nosed over, and came to rest upside-down. The pilot and passenger were
able to egress the aircraft, and no injuries were reported. The aircraft emergency locator
transmitter (ELT) automatically activated, and emergency services attended the scene. The aircraft
was substantially damaged. The aircraft was recovered from the site and transported back to CYPK where the damage will be
assessed.

[CpnCrunch]

Again no mention of carb heat, with symptoms exactly typical of carb ice.

[pelmet]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-AA1wEdMz

[P-40]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/p ... r-AA1wEdMz

Thanks for sharing, what a great story in an otherwise terrible event.