Hey all!

Well, I have an interesting ability, regardless of the situation to land quite flat no matter the type of landing ! I realize this is not exactly an asset, and maybe I could get a few suggestions on how to fix this problem. I'm at about 100 hours currently (certainly not all of that time was accumulated continuously) and I had landings down once, but I seem to have lost them. Kind of like losing a golf swing really! Any tips would be welcome. Thanks!

Make sure you're looking slightly ABOVE the very end of the runway (pick out a tree or something and look at the top of it) as you start to feel that "sense of speed" indicating it's time to start the flare. My guess is that you're looking at the touch-down zone.

Also, remember that the flare isn't just one attitude - the nose needs to keep on coming up & up to keep the aircraft in the air at the same altitude (i.e. keep it controlled so you don't balloon) until just prior to the stall.

Picture it like this:

You DON'T want to land!!

Bring the plane as close as you can to the runway without touching down.

Once you know you can make the field, your power should be cut.

With no power the airplane will want to go down. You don't want it to.

Keep holding it up by applying back pressure.

By applying the back pressure your nose will go up, and you will touch down on your 2 mains.

Hope this helps!!

Find yourself an old instructor with a taildragger- the combination of the two will straighten out any issues right quick.

Hey guys thanks for the prompt response! I think somewhere in the dark recesses of my flying past, I flared too high and stalled onto the runway pretty hard, so ever since I've been a bit nervous to have much of a nose high landing. I think I just need to get more comfortable with the level-off at lower altitudes, then I can learn to feel for the sink. As far as looking at the touchdown point, you are absolutely correct. It's a bad habit, and I've been slowly trying to force myself to look down the end of the runway. I guess I just don't like seeing the runway disappear under the nose! Thanks again guys and feel free to keep the advice coming!

Hey you know that's funny...I had the same thing happen to me when I had a 100 hours. It was weird...I couldn't figure out why I was hitting the runway so hard. But it was because I wasn't looking at the end of the runway either.

Just as a side note for ya, its okay to use a little power to cushion your landings. When you have that perfect touchdown attitude with the airplane use a little power to hold that attitude and control that last little descent of a few feet to the runway with your power....thats a real safe way to do things and if the guys back at the shack are laughing at ya for landing a little long...tell them to suck it.

You can quickly learn to land short enough with this technique anway. And I don't see what the rush is to get to that first taxiway...

Wow someone else with the problem I had. I am at about 100 hours as well and I had that problem currently working it out and getting better. I find that a big thing is on my approach I am pretty low so check your approach make sure it's where it should be. Also Yeah I always look at my touchdown point and never at the end of the runway. TERRIBLE. Don't be afraid to pull back. Obviously don't harp on the controls or anything. Happy Flying Though dude!

Maybe we should call it the "100 Hour Syndrome"

Is it possible you are carrying too much speed into the flare?

This often produces a lower pitch angle...

I do like the analogy to golf though. Everyone gets into a slump every now and then!

A little advice, land with the throttle closed. Completely.

Carrying in too much speed could definately be another culprit. Also, lately I've noticed I have the tendency to want to chop power if I get a balloon on the runway rather than just letting the nose down a bit. The result of course is...you guessed it... a nice firm plant on the runway!

Try this...
On the aproach use a very minimal amount of power, be on speed. As you round out smoothly pull the remaining power off, once level over the runway start pulling back to keep the edge of the engine cowling just below the end of the runway. As you settle, keep pulling to hold the nose on a spot just below the end of the runway, not too high so you cant see the runway in front of you, but just below the end of it. If you keep it there (and you'll be slowly pulling back the whole time to maintain it) you should have a nice, safe landing. Smoothness comes with practice.
If you want to cheat alittle, dip a wing just a few degrees (even if there's no wind) it's like feeling for the runway.

I have used that technique in almost everything I've flown, but in any twinn use the dash instead of the nose - as they slope too much (you'd hit the tail if you did that). Seems to work pretty good.

Sounds like a really good idea mate! I'll give it a go next time I'm out.

BankAngle1987, C-FANU by chance?

HAHAAA, Jeremy!!!

(It's a Sault College inside joke, folks. C-FANU had a crunched front wheel and firewall for a while till parts could come from the Czech Republic.)

-istp

I have no idea about FANU istp... fyi

A bad habit to balloons is pushing forward to try to recover from it. Keep your nose-up landing attitude and use power as it begins to settle down again. Remeber you are in slow flight. Decreasing your angle of attack will produce a reduction in lift and therefore cause you to drop and hit flat and hard. This will avoid landing on the nose gear and producing what happened to FANU.

Yeah I can't imagine the dean would be too pleased with that kind of damage! It's rather difficult to deal with power though when you're expected to do a precision short field landing. It would be lovely to have that room to play with power, but if I have to stop dead on the 500 foot markers, how do I narrow things down a bit?

BankAngle1987 wrote: It would be lovely to have that room to play with power, but if I have to stop dead on the 500 foot markers, how do I narrow things down a bit?

Try flaring earlier - i.e. over the grass. It can be a little nervewracking, so practice precision stuff first by making your touchdown point the 1000 foot markers (providing you have a significant length of runway after that!) and play around with where you need to start your flare in order to have the mains touch down exactly where you want them. Practice how to manage the power to make it to your touchdown point if you get too short. Once you're comfortable, back it up. And just a reminder while were at it - don't jump right on the brakes to slow it down - "squeeze" them. Not only will you keep your AME happy, it will produce a much better result. Good luck, and keep on looking at the runway ONLY through your peripheral vision!!!

HAHAHA ! RIGHT ON!

I've had the same issue! I learned to force myself to look at the end of the runway. Talk it out, "okay, now! I''m looking to the end of the runway"

Talking it out in your head worked great for me in air exercises etc. It also helped in landings.

Great post!

The AME has you look through a scope which displays a set of bars (inverted L's) and a horizontal dotted red line. If the line is significantly off the middle, you are flaring late or early.

Me, I had a refraction done by an ophthamologist who did not bother with the prisms the optometrist had used earlier and had a miserable time flying the airplane into the ground before learning to adjust.

Many years after getting my license, went to an optometrist again and got prisms. The next landing was perfectly done 3 feet above the ground.

Subsequent landings much easier.

Talking it out in your head worked great for me in air exercises etc. It also helped in landings

Talking things through is most definately a good practice. I find that it helps keep my thoughts organized and avoids me missing points. If the instructor doesn't like a chatty student well...perhaps he'd like a free chiropractor job on my next landing instead! Verbalization is the key good eye Canpilot!

Ha, I'm working through the exact same thing right now, I'm getting fairly close to being able to do my commercial ride, and my landings have gone completely flat on me. I've got two hours booked tomorrow to get this stuff hammered out. Seems like this is a common problem, I was getting worried it was just me

While on the topic of precision touchdown short field landings: there seems to always be a temptation to come in very shallow. Avoid this. Forgetting about obstacle clearance, a shallow aproach requires more power and creates less of a "flare" motion to bleed off speed just prior to touchdown. Both of these factors (as mentioned above) will likely lead to a flatter landing.
Remember: a good landing starts with a stabilized approach. Learn a good approach power setting for your aircraft and set the power as you begin your descent from circuit altitude. No power changes should be necessary until the flare.
Most importantly, don't get discouraged. This is what training is all about.

Red

Rember that a good approch and landing starts befor final,It starts before you even call the up it is a made of making the whole process fluid insged of a step down. If you are in the curcit I find it best to make the base leg in tighter. you will find the best result can be had by fliying the approch a bit higher, remember you can always slip if needed. You dont want to look at the numbers but just before the beginning of the runway. Then once at 50' look down past the end of the runway to a far fixed object. this will let you fell yourself sink. I find this always works for me.

I have over 100 hours and fly in a PA28 out of a 2100' field.

flyingscotsman wrote:If you are in the curcit I find it best to make the base leg in tighter. you will find the best result can be had by fliying the approch a bit higher, remember you can always slip if needed

Just keep in mind that when/if you go on and get your CPL and maybe get a job flying for someone, the first time you slip a plane w/pax on board on final because you were too high is probably the last time you fly for that company.

just remember the 6 p's: Proper Preperation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance. Think ahead of the aircraft.

Anti