Comox WestJet + RCAF

[Sailtime]

https://www.comoxvalleyrecord.com/news/ ... rt-1674505

[Pratt X 3]

Summary: A WestJet 737 taxiing for departure, on the Comox to Edmonton flight, clips the backend on a Hercules with the right wingtip, shearing off the winglet. No injuries and passengers eventually deplane, bussed to terminal and alternate arrangements made.

Biggest issue that stands out for me, besides avoiding the collision in the first place, is the passenger, who provides the commentary to the media along with a picture of the aftermath because they were seated right next to the wing, didn’t initially realize anything had happened. They were checked out and listening to a podcast, only noticing something was going on when other passengers pointed it out. Hopefully the investigation touches on that and recommends better awareness for passengers needing to be ‘present’ during the critical moments of a flight (taxi, takeoff, approach and landing).

[Big Pistons Forever]

The picture shows the stopped 737 nosewheels straddling the yellow taxi line. I think the RCAF is probably going to own this one because they parked the CC130 inside the maneuvering area for the civil terminal ramp.

[pelmet]

The picture shows the stopped 737 nosewheels straddling the yellow taxi line. I think the RCAF is probably going to own this one because they parked the CC130 inside the maneuvering area for the civil terminal ramp.

“I was on the centreline, so it was not my fault.”

[Big Pistons Forever]

The picture shows the stopped 737 nosewheels straddling the yellow taxi line. I think the RCAF is probably going to own this one because they parked the CC130 inside the maneuvering area for the civil terminal ramp.

“I was on the centreline, so it was not my fault.”

I have never driven a 737 so can you even see the wing tip from the cockpit ?

[rookiepilot]

Summary: A WestJet 737 taxiing for departure, on the Comox to Edmonton flight, clips the backend on a Hercules with the right wingtip, shearing off the winglet. No injuries and passengers eventually deplane, bussed to terminal and alternate arrangements made.

Biggest issue that stands out for me, besides avoiding the collision in the first place, is the passenger, who provides the commentary to the media along with a picture of the aftermath because they were seated right next to the wing, didn’t initially realize anything had happened. They were checked out and listening to a podcast, only noticing something was going on when other passengers pointed it out. Hopefully the investigation touches on that and recommends better awareness for passengers needing to be ‘present’ during the critical moments of a flight (taxi, takeoff, approach and landing).

I’m not sure what you expect of passengers.

Is this ideal awareness before or after the advertising flooding over the PVR’s during every taxi, at deafening volume (and you can’t turn it off or lower it).

My noise canceling goes on the second I sit down. Its still loud over it.

Never mind the endless redundant announcements, very loud, in both english AND french, and a portion of those are marketing announcements as well.

Taking the Go train is more peaceful.

No wonder pax check out.

[airway]

Whoever parked the Herc may get a slap on the wrist (assuming they parked inappropriately), but ultimately it’s the pilots responsibility not to hit anything.

[Airbrake]

The picture shows the stopped 737 nosewheels straddling the yellow taxi line. I think the RCAF is probably going to own this one because they parked the CC130 inside the maneuvering area for the civil terminal ramp.

“I was on the centreline, so it was not my fault.”

I have never driven a 737 so can you even see the wing tip from the cockpit ?

Yes you can.

[goldeneagle]

Whoever parked the Herc may get a slap on the wrist (assuming they parked inappropriately), but ultimately it’s the pilots responsibility not to hit anything.

The 737 appears to be on the yellow line, the herc is in the yellow circle. But I'm curious now, is it parked on a part of the ramp marked for the herc, or is it parked in a spot marked for something smaller ? The photos suggest it on the line where they used to put the Buf.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Whoever parked the Herc may get a slap on the wrist (assuming they parked inappropriately), but ultimately it’s the pilots responsibility not to hit anything.

From TP 312

Taxiway. A defined path on a land aerodrome designed for the taxiing of aircraft and intended to provide
a link between one part of the aerodrome and another, including:
 Apron taxiway. A portion of an apron designated as a taxiway providing a through taxi route
across the apron.



5.2.13.1 A taxiway centreline marking is provided on a paved:
------
(d) apron; or


5.2.13.8 The location of the taxiway centreline marking is such that when the cockpit of the critical
aircraft remains over the marking, the clearance between any wheel of the aircraft and the edge
of the taxiway, or runway turn pad as applicable is not less than the distances specified in
3.5.1.

Yes you are right ultimately the WestJet Captain can be held responsible but it is not reasonable in my mind that the RCAF parked a large aircraft on a civil ramp that has daily 737 traffic in such a way that an airplane following the approved taxiway marking will hit it.

[pelmet]

Whoever parked the Herc may get a slap on the wrist (assuming they parked inappropriately), but ultimately it’s the pilots responsibility not to hit anything.

From TP 312

Taxiway. A defined path on a land aerodrome designed for the taxiing of aircraft and intended to provide
a link between one part of the aerodrome and another, including:
 Apron taxiway. A portion of an apron designated as a taxiway providing a through taxi route
across the apron.



5.2.13.1 A taxiway centreline marking is provided on a paved:
------
(d) apron; or


5.2.13.8 The location of the taxiway centreline marking is such that when the cockpit of the critical
aircraft remains over the marking, the clearance between any wheel of the aircraft and the edge
of the taxiway, or runway turn pad as applicable is not less than the distances specified in
3.5.1.

Yes you are right ultimately the WestJet Captain can be held responsible but it is not reasonable in my mind that the RCAF parked a large aircraft on a civil ramp that has daily 737 traffic in such a way that an airplane following the approved taxiway marking will hit it.

Obstacles that can cause damage happen all the time. We had a guy taxiing on the centerline that hit the tail of a regional jet(not the first ground collision in the company). The RJ was holding short of the gate and waiting for the marshallers. All he had to do was wait or go to the left of the centerline. But some are determined to follow that yellow centerline because they are told that this is the safest thing to do. He was demoted of course. Regs have a place but marshallers are usually better at preventing collisions.

[Bede]

Regs have a place but marshallers are usually better at preventing collisions.

Respectfully I beg to differ. I had to stop my plane a couple of weeks ago because the wing walker was looking at the ground, facing the marshaller and was in a position that had he not moved, we would have ingested him into our engine.

[goldeneagle]

Yes you are right ultimately the WestJet Captain can be held responsible but it is not reasonable in my mind that the RCAF parked a large aircraft on a civil ramp that has daily 737 traffic in such a way that an airplane following the approved taxiway marking will hit it.

Except this is CFB Comox, it's NOT a civil ramp, the spot in question is on the military ramp in front of the S&R squadron hangars.

[pelmet]

Regs have a place but marshallers are usually better at preventing collisions.

Respectfully I beg to differ. I had to stop my plane a couple of weeks ago because the wing walker was looking at the ground, facing the marshaller and was in a position that had he not moved, we would have ingested him into our engine.

That is why I said 'Usually'.

[goingnowherefast]

The picture shows the stopped 737 nosewheels straddling the yellow taxi line. I think the RCAF is probably going to own this one because they parked the CC130 inside the maneuvering area for the civil terminal ramp.

“I was on the centreline, so it was not my fault.”

I have never driven a 737 so can you even see the wing tip from the cockpit ?

If the wing tip can be seen, what's the distance from the flight deck to the wing tip? What's your depth perception like at that distance? Was it daylight? Those grey hercs are very hard to see at night right in front of you, I bet they'd never even know it was there if this event happened at night.

[truecolours]

I don’t think the 737 should have been where it was. There is a temporary taxi line due to construction that is outside (east) of the parking areas. The temporary taxi line does not take aircraft between parked aircraft and the hangars. They should have been on the other side.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Gents,

I would respectfully say that the debate about lines, box etc and what have you is a moot point.

It’s all about situational awareness.

Akin to many other incidents… there was a lack or lapse of situational awareness and or of airmanship.

«George doesn’t that look tight? I’m not sure I trust those lines anymore »

« Tim looking on my right, slow the @#$! down and let’s make sure we avoid that c*$ker’s tail! »

Why are you all hell bent on legalities? In the right or wrong, airmanship should have avoided this 100%.

TPC

[lostaviator]

I agree about the situational awareness piece but I wasn’t there so who knows what the conversation was up front.

There are a lot of other factors to this incident though that hopefully bring some changes. The crew are not the only ones involved in this incident.

Why are there no notams about the taxi route? The only Notam is the one saying F is closed. Nothing about which yellow line to follow through the military apron which would be completely foreign to most civilian pilots operating there.

Why were the company issued memos and diagrams not uploaded to our devices until after the incident? Surely someone knew about the construction prior to the incident and if not, why not?

[dontcallmeshirley]

I agree about the situational awareness piece but I wasn’t there so who knows what the conversation was up front.

There are a lot of other factors to this incident though that hopefully bring some changes. The crew are not the only ones involved in this incident.

Why are there no notams about the taxi route? The only Notam is the one saying F is closed. Nothing about which yellow line to follow through the military apron which would be completely foreign to most civilian pilots operating there.

Why were the company issued memos and diagrams not uploaded to our devices until after the incident? Surely someone knew about the construction prior to the incident and if not, why not?

The distance between the yellow line and the outside of the circle that the C130 is parked in is 50 feet. That's barely enough room for a Q (physically... not comfortably).

You wouldn't know that by the Jepp charts though.

[Gear Jerker]

All unconfirmed rumour mill:

- taxi package came out after the incident.
- crew queried ground multiple times prior to taxiing that route
- a military wing walker was in place

Questions about vantage point from flight deck to wingtip:
You can see the wingtips, but depth perception can be difficult in many scenarios.

My point being, let's get off our "they lost SA, it's the Captain's fault" high horses until we actually know wtf happened.

[FL030]

What's a taxi package?

[Choppermech1986]

All unconfirmed rumour mill:

- taxi package came out after the incident.
- crew queried ground multiple times prior to taxiing that route
- a military wing walker was in place

Questions about vantage point from flight deck to wingtip:
You can see the wingtips, but depth perception can be difficult in many scenarios.

My point being, let's get off our "they lost SA, it's the Captain's fault" high horses until we actually know wtf happened.

We all know what happened, a WS pilot taxied into a parked plane during daylight hours.

[iflyforpie]

What's a taxi package?

By inference its a dumbed-down taxi chart you can blindly follow and keep you safe with a bunch of suggested routes, warnings, or do-nots.

[pelmet]

All unconfirmed rumour mill:

- taxi package came out after the incident.
- crew queried ground multiple times prior to taxiing that route
- a military wing walker was in place

Questions about vantage point from flight deck to wingtip:
You can see the wingtips, but depth perception can be difficult in many scenarios.

My point being, let's get off our "they lost SA, it's the Captain's fault" high horses until we actually know wtf happened.

Saw a video of the incident from an acquaintance. No military wing walker in place.

[mijbil]

WS Herc UQQ.mp4

(1.85 MiB) Downloaded 201 times

Daylight. No marshaller. Hercs are on the old Buffalo spots. The new SAR airplane (the Kingfisher) has had some delays becoming operational so Hercs are holding the FW SAR requirement for the BC Yukon SRR.