The "Yes" side will be full of regret

[lenamade]

As a guy who learned a lot from previous votes...vote NO to any trash this company is offering

Aeroplan walked away and got a better deal. They didn't get bullied by this outfit

Pilots have never had more leverage. Don't piss it away!!

[truedude]

As a guy who learned a lot from previous votes...vote NO to any trash this company is offering

Aeroplan walked away and got a better deal. They didn't get bullied by this outfit

Pilots have never had more leverage. Don't piss it away!!

You are comparing a business purchase, to a contract negotiation?

And yes, AC did come back with a final offer to Aeroplan, which was accepted. Almost like what has happened here, with our union rejecting several other offers before before presenting this final offer.

[lenamade]

As a guy who learned a lot from previous votes...vote NO to any trash this company is offering

Aeroplan walked away and got a better deal. They didn't get bullied by this outfit

Pilots have never had more leverage. Don't piss it away!!

You are comparing a business purchase, to a contract negotiation?

And yes, AC did come back with a final offer to Aeroplan, which was accepted. Almost like what has happened here, with our union rejecting several other offers before before presenting this final offer.

The union did not recommend this deal

Full Stop

They are looking for more ammo to tell the corp to come back with more by showing the membership has high expectations

[truedude]

As a guy who learned a lot from previous votes...vote NO to any trash this company is offering

Aeroplan walked away and got a better deal. They didn't get bullied by this outfit

Pilots have never had more leverage. Don't piss it away!!

You are comparing a business purchase, to a contract negotiation?

And yes, AC did come back with a final offer to Aeroplan, which was accepted. Almost like what has happened here, with our union rejecting several other offers before before presenting this final offer.

The union did not recommend this deal

Full Stop

They are looking for more ammo to tell the corp to come back with more by showing the membership has high expectations

That is not at all the position the union has. I have talked to my rep, perhaps you should talk to yours (so long as they don't already have one foot out the door).

They are disappointed with it, and think it should be higher. They also know there is a risk to saying no.

[cdnavater]

You are comparing a business purchase, to a contract negotiation?

And yes, AC did come back with a final offer to Aeroplan, which was accepted. Almost like what has happened here, with our union rejecting several other offers before before presenting this final offer.

The union did not recommend this deal

Full Stop

They are looking for more ammo to tell the corp to come back with more by showing the membership has high expectations

That is not at all the position the union has. I have talked to my rep, perhaps you should talk to yours (so long as they don't already have one foot out the door).

They are disappointed with it, and think it should be higher. They also know there is a risk to saying no.

As I said in another thread, Encore was in a similar position where the corp offered some improvements outside of normal bargaining and every Tom, Dick and Harry said don’t do it, they will come back with more, here we are a year later, they have only shrunk since then and nothing, not a hint of more coming.
They have a maximum they are willing to pay for regional lift, this is likely what it is for now and after AC wages come in, there might be some more room.
I’ve done the wage comparison on a per seat basis in the past and it’s met with the same response every time, “that’s ridiculous “ well guess what, I guarantee that’s the metric they use. Maybe they call it something different like CASM, but it is the wages that form part of that. If we make too much, we have a higher CASM and that makes the 220s a lot more attractive.

To the author of this thread, I do not have a single regret to my YES vote, I will sleep fine and truly hope all Jazz pilots ignore the noise and see it for what it is, a free raise in pay.

[flyingfool]

US regionals under ALPA shouldn't let any Yes voters within a 100' of the building

Terrible logic with bad results

[cdnavater]

US regionals under ALPA shouldn't let any Yes voters within a 100' of the building

Terrible logic with bad results

Yes, let’s go back 6 years and blackball them from the building, it’s comments like these that have me posting insults.
You either have no clue about the history or no clue about our specific situation or the other option is…….well, I’ll leave that to the imagination.
With your logic, no single Canadian ALPA pilot should be allowed in the building, we are all terribly behind the current US market.
Are you a Canadian pilot? If you are, you should be ashamed of yourself for your abysmal pay, go find a dark corner and think about what you’ve done!

[Montroyal]

Cdnavater,

We get it. You filling up this message board has made your point loud & clear...you're a rat

Not quite a scab, sure you would be given the right circumstances

Rats take what they can get. Drag everyone else around the down as they scurry around looking around for their little piece of cheese. They are cancer to a group and certainly a union

You do you man. But stop with the incessant posts

[truedude]

Cdnavater,

We get it. You filling up this message board has made your point loud & clear...you're a rat

Not quite a scab, sure you would be given the right circumstances

Rats take what they can get. Drag everyone else around the down as they scurry around looking around for their little piece of cheese. They are cancer to a group and certainly a union

You do you man. But stop with the incessant posts

I'm sorry, you are not in a postion to talk. Remeber, it was AC pilots that voted away Jazz's exclusivity, doing more damage to us than anything else. Air Canada pilots have done a lot to drag us down. So knock it off with your name calling.

[Freshredmeat]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

[truedude]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

Right? If someone is going to call someone a rat, expect a response. If you don't work for Jazz and tell us how we should vote, at least make sure you make it clear that you will suffer zero consequences a no vote might bring. And if you work for AC, remember it was with the help If AC pilots we find ourselves in this position.

[CPU2000]

So we've heard from TrueDud and someone who doesn't know how to spell aviator x 100

I'm assuming it's the same guy in his parent's basement

Anyhow, is there any other views on this insulting offer?

[truedude]

So we've heard from TrueDud and someone who doesn't know how to spell aviator x 100

I'm assuming it's the same guy in his parent's basement

Anyhow, is there any other views on this insulting offer?

My posts go back twenty years. I have both more life experience, and time in this industry than you do.

[cdnavater]

So we've heard from TrueDud and someone who doesn't know how to spell aviator x 100

I'm assuming it's the same guy in his parent's basement

Anyhow, is there any other views on this insulting offer?

I’m soooo, so insulted but on a serious note please do tell us how it’s insulting.
Remember we voted for career stability in exchange for the current contract, as mentioned by Truedude, a direct result of AC pilot actions and then the pilots who were willing to do the same job for much less.
We are where we are and a raise with no strings in not only not insulting but in reality surprising, I didn’t think they would even attempt to fix the issues.
Now, if someone wants to actually provide sound reasoning based on the reality of our situation, I will engage further with you but so far it’s just insults and you should vote no for the good of aviation. That doesn’t account for our situation of your perceived leverage not being based in reality. You make a lot of assumptions, but do not include any facts, our situation is 1000% different than every other group of pilots in Canada or the US, anywhere really.

[canadian_aviator_4]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

Agreed, let others voice their opinion. This is an open forum so it doesn’t matter where you work, it’s an open discussion. Everyone will make a decision based on their needs, and democracy will indicate whether or not the vote passes.

[cdnavater]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

Agreed, let others voice their opinion. This is an open forum so it doesn’t matter where you work, it’s an open discussion. Everyone will make a decision based on their needs, and democracy will indicate whether or not the vote passes.

Nobody is preventing anyone from voicing their opinion, however I’m responding to the ones that simply hurl insults without any facts or sound reasoning, which I’m all for if they account for everything.
So, far the only reason is because there’s a shortage, to which I say and I’ll say it LOUD SO IT’S CLEAR, OUR UNION NEGOTIATED FOR A YEAR AND HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH OUR COMPANY WHO THEN SENT IT TO AC FOR FINAL APPROVAL, SINCE THEY ACTUALLY PAY THE WAGES. THEY TURNED IT DOWN AND SENT BACK A PAY TABLE THEY “WERE WILLING TO DISCUSS” .
OUR UNION RESPONDED WITH, NO THANKS AND A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER THAT, THE COMPANY CAME BACK WITH WHAT AIR CANADA SAID WAS, “THE MOST THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY”. THIS WAS ALL DONE OUTSIDE OF NORMAL BARGAINING BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO FORCE THEM TO BARGAIN.
These are facts, they are the only facts that matter because the rest is pure speculation and supposition!
If this new pay isn’t enough to fix the problem, they may come back or they may just shrink us to a more manageable size, still pure speculation because no one knows.
It is important to know who is posting their opinion because without anything to lose, your opinion has no weight in this discussion!
How did all those Porter peeps respond when I suggested they get a proper union, I rest my case!

[Westerncanuck]

Regrets? Doubt it. My take home will go up 25-30% without any OT.

As other have said, this probably won’t fix the issue long term and if the regionals south of the border are any indication, they will be back with more before too long. In the meantime l’ll gladly take it.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

Agreed, let others voice their opinion. This is an open forum so it doesn’t matter where you work, it’s an open discussion. Everyone will make a decision based on their needs, and democracy will indicate whether or not the vote passes.

Nobody is preventing anyone from voicing their opinion, however I’m responding to the ones that simply hurl insults without any facts or sound reasoning, which I’m all for if they account for everything.
So, far the only reason is because there’s a shortage, to which I say and I’ll say it LOUD SO IT’S CLEAR, OUR UNION NEGOTIATED FOR A YEAR AND HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH OUR COMPANY WHO THEN SENT IT TO AC FOR FINAL APPROVAL, SINCE THEY ACTUALLY PAY THE WAGES. THEY TURNED IT DOWN AND SENT BACK A PAY TABLE THEY “WERE WILLING TO DISCUSS” .
OUR UNION RESPONDED WITH, NO THANKS AND A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER THAT, THE COMPANY CAME BACK WITH WHAT AIR CANADA SAID WAS, “THE MOST THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY”. THIS WAS ALL DONE OUTSIDE OF NORMAL BARGAINING BECAUSE WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO FORCE THEM TO BARGAIN.
These are facts, they are the only facts that matter because the rest is pure speculation and supposition!
If this new pay isn’t enough to fix the problem, they may come back or they may just shrink us to a more manageable size, still pure speculation because no one knows.
It is important to know who is posting their opinion because without anything to lose, your opinion has no weight in this discussion!
How did all those Porter peeps respond when I suggested they get a proper union, I rest my case!

Lol. You sure mention porter a lot. You sure you don’t want me to get you a job?

[M.Caribou]

You guys finally have some dialogue going on and you’re going to vote yes for $1300 more a month?!? I guess the starving FOs have no choice, and the others would have probably left by now if they weren’t planning on following the fall PIT course promises.

You guys have all the power, and you’re going to piss it away for 5 more T1 Frappuccino’s.

By the way…..I hear the northern SK/MB/ON 705s are still making more than you after their new agreements! Take note!!!

[RippleRock]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

Right? If someone is going to call someone a rat, expect a response. If you don't work for Jazz and tell us how we should vote, at least make sure you make it clear that you will suffer zero consequences a no vote might bring. And if you work for AC, remember it was with the help If AC pilots we find ourselves in this position.

Don't blame the AC Pilots. We answered a CPA Scope Pole from our Scope Chair at the time. It was very, very loosely worded. Something along the lines of "do you think AC should be able to have options with regard to CPA carriers that would directly affect AC's bottom line and possibly improve the airlines financial viability?".....something like that. From this pole, they "believed" they had the authorization from the Membership to initiate the Sky CPA. We NEVER voted for, or officially approved of anything. No one endorsed Sky as far as I'm aware. It was simply another instance of our MEC and their minions gone rouge and doing their masters bidding. FWIW, their "masters" were never the Membership.

This same Scope Chair at ACPA at the time is the exact same guy who is pushing these "agreements" across the table to you right now. Our former ACPA Scope Chair is now the Contracts Manager.

Point the guns in the right direction.

[truedude]

I'd add "TrueDude" to the list of incessant posters

They made their point.

Now let others speak

Right? If someone is going to call someone a rat, expect a response. If you don't work for Jazz and tell us how we should vote, at least make sure you make it clear that you will suffer zero consequences a no vote might bring. And if you work for AC, remember it was with the help If AC pilots we find ourselves in this position.

Don't blame the AC Pilots. We answered a CPA Scope Pole from our Scope Chair at the time. It was very, very loosely worded. Something along the lines of "do you think AC should be able to have options with regard to CPA carriers that would directly affect AC's bottom line and possibly improve the airlines financial viability?".....something like that. From this pole, they "believed" they had the authorization from the Membership to initiate the Sky CPA. We NEVER voted for, or officially approved of anything. No one endorsed Sky as far as I'm aware. It was simply another instance of our MEC and their minions gone rouge and doing their masters bidding. FWIW, their "masters" were never the Membership.

This same Scope Chair at ACPA at the time is the exact same guy who is pushing these "agreements" across the table to you right now. Our former ACPA Scope Chair is now the Contracts Manager.

Point the guns in the right direction.

I am pretty sure there was a vote that officaly gave them the greenlight just before or just after Sky started operating.

I just get annoyed when those expect us to somehow carry the torch for everyone when we tried in 2010, only to get hammered down by everyone else around us.

It isnt a great situation, and as much as I can understand people being disappointed, it does offer improvements. And they likely don't go far enough to fix the issues, so I see it as a single step in a larger journy.

[Full Ins]

I’ll pass on milk runs to Stony Rapids and Lac Brochet… fill your boots if that’s what you want for a better salary.

[Nick678]

Instead of reducing flow why are they not discussing a PML list? could have avoided all the flow issues and would keep pilots at Jazz longer?

[truedude]

Instead of reducing flow why are they not discussing a PML list? could have avoided all the flow issues and would keep pilots at Jazz longer?

You need AC pilots to agree to that, since it is their list.

[Nick678]

Instead of reducing flow why are they not discussing a PML list? could have avoided all the flow issues and would keep pilots at Jazz longer?

You need AC pilots to agree to that, since it is their list.

If only they were entering into negots….