Ab initio training comes to Canada

[co-joe]

There's already a discussion specific to the Flair Cadet program, but there are also programs set to begin with Air Transat, as well as Air Canada Jazz.

Flair Airlines Cadet program:
https://flyflair.com/travel-info/flair-cadet-program

Air Transat Ascension Academy:
https://www.transat.com/en-CA/corporate ... on-academy

Air Canada Jazz Approach program:
https://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/beco ... -approach/

I have to admit, I thought this day would never come, but now that it's on the near horizon, I am interested to hear what you think about it? It works in nearly every other country in the civilized world, but a lot of people here seem to think that Canada is different somehow.

[digits_]

I am sure it will work, it just seems unnecessary. These programs deliver 250 hour pilotd with a type rating. Not captains, which are needed.

It allows companies to have the applicant pay for their initial type rating. So good for the airline and CAE. But ultimately unnecessary. Just like in all the other countries.

Unless the company pays for the training, that would be great! But I doubt that would be the case in Canada...

[AP26]

There's absolutely no incentive here for people to sign up for these cadet programs, unless mommy or daddy is paying for it, or you are mortgaging your house to fund it.

[Bede]

My dad used to work for SwissAir (as a mechanic). They had a cadet program for top engineering and science graduates and the airline paid for it. If that was the case, I'd be for it. In these cases, it's a really, really expensive program for a crap airline job at the other end.

This is basically paying your way into your first job and will further exacerbate the inequalities in this industry.

[digits_]

And looking at the information trickling down in other threads, at least 2 of those airlines likely won't exist anymore before your training is finished...

[lostav8r]

My dad used to work for SwissAir (as a mechanic). They had a cadet program for top engineering and science graduates and the airline paid for it. If that was the case, I'd be for it. In these cases, it's a really, really expensive program for a crap airline job at the other end.

This is basically paying your way into your first job and will further exacerbate the inequalities in this industry.

Hey not sure if you're involved in flight training anymore but are people still even signing up? I hear it's hard to find an instructor

[Bede]

Signing up to be pilots? Yep, it's packed. The problem is no one wants to do the instructor route so there's few instructors so schools are limiting students.

[digits_]

Signing up to be pilots? Yep, it's packed. The problem is no one wants to do the instructor route so there's few instructors so schools are limiting students.

Are the schools you're involved with considering raising rates/paying instructors more? Honest question. I'm wondering what the inside thought process of the FTUs is.

[Bede]

Signing up to be pilots? Yep, it's packed. The problem is no one wants to do the instructor route so there's few instructors so schools are limiting students.

Are the schools you're involved with considering raising rates/paying instructors more? Honest question. I'm wondering what the inside thought process of the FTUs is.

They've always paid instructors above average rates. $48k salary for a class 4 instructor + full health benefits. Contract is regular 40 hr work week with regular hours. (Not be on call 24/7 for whenever a student wants to fly.)

[digits_]

Signing up to be pilots? Yep, it's packed. The problem is no one wants to do the instructor route so there's few instructors so schools are limiting students.

Are the schools you're involved with considering raising rates/paying instructors more? Honest question. I'm wondering what the inside thought process of the FTUs is.

They've always paid instructors above average rates. $48k salary for a class 4 instructor + full health benefits. Contract is regular 40 hr work week with regular hours. (Not be on call 24/7 for whenever a student wants to fly.)

That's really good to hear. But if that's not enough to keep instructors, are they considering further increments? Fairly certain 100k would keep a lof people around for much longer, for maybe a 15% increase in total course costs. Just curious why they prefer to turn people away instead of increasing wages further.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Instructing in Canada has always been an entry level job. Almost every instructor is looking to move on to a "better" job. When times are tough there is no instructor shortage as instructors have no where to go. When things are booming new pilots either do a drive by at an FTU to get a few hundred hours and then leave or bypass instructing altogether.

The only thing that would change this is raising the entry bar, especially for CPL and ME, MEIFR training. In Europe flight training for the higher licenses is a recognized career with pretty high experience requirements and appropriate remuneration.

I see no interest on the part of TC or the industry in general to go down this route so I expect the instructor boom bust instructor cycle will continue indefinitely.

The one thing that would actually make a difference is if airlines that hire out of the FTU's gave the new hire a seniority number and a training date a year out and then sent them back to the FTU with some sort of bonus scheme, lump sum payment, or some other incentive. However that would require operators to actually take some responsibility for the future supply of pilots, which we all know is never going to happen.

[co-joe]

And looking at the information trickling down in other threads, at least 2 of those airlines likely won't exist anymore before your training is finished...

I don't see that as being as big a risk as a few posters suggest. I don't have inside knowledge on the program my airline is running, but I can't see it being a show up with a bank draft for $140k on day one you rolls the dice and takes your chances kind of thing. The point where you have a CPL and Milti IFR in hand and start 737, CRJ, or A320 training is where the risk starts, but even then, I believe it's a calculated risk at that point. If you decide you want to pull out and take a job in the real world, I'm sure the opportunity will be there to pull the rip cord before handing over the money. Then from the day you have your type rating in hand, you can go anywhere with it, although I feel the 737 type will open more doors than the other two.

Of note, the Jazz program requires that you have an undergraduate degree in hand when you start. That already puts you somewhere in the 40 to 80 grand in the hole already before committing to the 125k course and it leads to a job at the lowest paying airline in North America.

The Transat program involves doing flight training in the USA. How they are going to transfer that to a Canadian license is unknown, and what additional costs that will come with seem more questionable.

[digits_]

And looking at the information trickling down in other threads, at least 2 of those airlines likely won't exist anymore before your training is finished...

I don't see that as being as big a risk as a few posters suggest. I don't have inside knowledge on the program my airline is running, but I can't see it being a show up with a bank draft for $140k on day one you rolls the dice and takes your chances kind of thing. The point where you have a CPL and Milti IFR in hand and start 737, CRJ, or A320 training is where the risk starts, but even then, I believe it's a calculated risk at that point. If you decide you want to pull out and take a job in the real world, I'm sure the opportunity will be there to pull the rip cord before handing over the money. Then from the day you have your type rating in hand, you can go anywhere with it, although I feel the 737 type will open more doors than the other two.

Of note, the Jazz program requires that you have an undergraduate degree in hand when you start. That already puts you somewhere in the 40 to 80 grand in the hole already before committing to the 125k course and it leads to a job at the lowest paying airline in North America.

The Transat program involves doing flight training in the USA. How they are going to transfer that to a Canadian license is unknown, and what additional costs that will come with seem more questionable.

Perhaps, I hope you're right.

A lot of those programs have carefully crafted contracts and payment requirements, that you are very likely overpaying if you leave.

Things to watch out for are inflated PPL prices offset by a cheap typerating. Doesn't matter if you follow the full program, but if you leave after your PPL/CPL it would be quite sucky to find out you paid 30k for a PPL for example. Another pitfall could be that the issuing of the license would be subject to paying for the next phase etc.

Or it could be a proper decent program. Who knows. Just be careful.

[airway]

And looking at the information trickling down in other threads, at least 2 of those airlines likely won't exist anymore before your training is finished...

I don't see that as being as big a risk as a few posters suggest. I don't have inside knowledge on the program my airline is running, but I can't see it being a show up with a bank draft for $140k on day one you rolls the dice and takes your chances kind of thing. The point where you have a CPL and Milti IFR in hand and start 737, CRJ, or A320 training is where the risk starts, but even then, I believe it's a calculated risk at that point. If you decide you want to pull out and take a job in the real world, I'm sure the opportunity will be there to pull the rip cord before handing over the money. Then from the day you have your type rating in hand, you can go anywhere with it, although I feel the 737 type will open more doors than the other two.

Of note, the Jazz program requires that you have an undergraduate degree in hand when you start. That already puts you somewhere in the 40 to 80 grand in the hole already before committing to the 125k course and it leads to a job at the lowest paying airline in North America.

The Transat program involves doing flight training in the USA. How they are going to transfer that to a Canadian license is unknown, and what additional costs that will come with seem more questionable.

Any diploma or equivalent is fine too.


Eligibility Requirements

Citizenship: Legally entitled to work in Canada, and a citizen or permanent resident of Canada. In the latter case, the Trainee must be able to obtain and maintain crew visa documentation required to operate aircraft within the USA.
Minimum Education: Post-secondary degree, diploma or equivalent.
Minimum Age: 18 years old.
Physical & Medical Requirements: Must be able to obtain a Category 1 Medical Certificate issued by TC.
Language Skills: Fluency in English, both written & spoken; a minimum of ICAO level 4 English Language proficiency.