787-10 order

[CaptDukeNukem]

https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-boe ... -10-order/


They’re buying airplanes. Where’s the money for the pilots?

[rudder]

That probably represents the end of the 777-200’s. Possible replacement for some older -300’s.

[Dias]

I'm glad we don't have to fight over 777F wages now.

The 787-10 has significantly less range than the 777's so I don't know if it will replace them.

[BTD]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

[rudder]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

That would be a management fantasy at discounted wages and WAWCON.

More likely all of the 321XLR’s will end up in Rouge paint.

Perhaps if AC offered 330 pay for all ROUGE pilots in a TRZ type scheduling arrangement that would work? Don’t see that happening.

[fish4life]

It will most likely be used for the transatlantic flying.

[BTD]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

That would be a management fantasy at discounted wages and WAWCON.

More likely all of the 321XLR’s will end up in Rouge paint.

Perhaps if AC offered 330 pay for all ROUGE pilots in a TRZ type scheduling arrangement that would work? Don’t see that happening.

I didn’t mean to suggest at rouge pay. I doubt we will see LOU 74 back. Just the paint on the side of the plane.

[Dockjock]

They bought airplanes. It’s an airline. Does Suncor announce when they buy dump trucks? I hear McDonalds bought new McFlurry machines. Great.

[rudder]

AC will likely disclose which aircraft the 787-10’s will replace at the Q3 2023 analyst call. Or at least the question will be asked.

No different than the incremental 220’s replacing mainline 319 capacity (and Express).

Fleet Renewal

The acquisition of the new aircraft is part of an ongoing fleet renewal program at Air Canada, with the airline continuing to take delivery of new Airbus A220 aircraft, as well as plans to acquire 28 extra-long range (XLR) versions of the Airbus A321neo aircraft, also beginning in 2025. In addition, as previously announced,

[Dash.Trash]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

That would be a management fantasy at discounted wages and WAWCON.

More likely all of the 321XLR’s will end up in Rouge paint.

Perhaps if AC offered 330 pay for all ROUGE pilots in a TRZ type scheduling arrangement that would work? Don’t see that happening.

The 321s are coming with lie-flat beds in J. Not exactly a Rouge configuration, so have to disagree with you there.

[yowflyer23]

Likely a replacement for the 18 A330’s + growth.

[cjp]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

That would be a management fantasy at discounted wages and WAWCON.

More likely all of the 321XLR’s will end up in Rouge paint.

Perhaps if AC offered 330 pay for all ROUGE pilots in a TRZ type scheduling arrangement that would work? Don’t see that happening.

From a customer point of view, when I see a Rouge tail towed or taxied to the gate, I'm an unhappy passenger.

It absolutely vitiates the experience.

[LegoMan]

I'm glad we don't have to fight over 777F wages now.

The 787-10 has significantly less range than the 777's so I don't know if it will replace them.

Are they filling them? Many airplanes have reduced traffic so are looking to reduce the capacity as well. In the good times the 787 would have replaced the 767s but it could be that they are now going to be replacing A330/777s and reduce the number of different aircraft types.

[a2btrail]

But we compete in canada so we should get a Canadian discount off the new orders right?

[RVR6000]

I'm glad we don't have to fight over 777F wages now.

The 787-10 has significantly less range than the 777's so I don't know if it will replace them.

Are they filling them? Many airplanes have reduced traffic so are looking to reduce the capacity as well. In the good times the 787 would have replaced the 767s but it could be that they are now going to be replacing A330/777s and reduce the number of different aircraft types.

777HD’s doing FCO, CUN, ATH, are all full. 450 pax HD’s won’t be replaced by the -10. Apparently the 330 are going through a modernization/renewal process in Hamilton. The ones on lease from Singapore Airlines (Star Alliance livery) will eventually be returned back to them.

This order most likely replaces the R767 Europe and South America capacity, and probably free-ups the 777ER from Europe for the longer Asia routes.

[unionism101]

They bought airplanes. It’s an airline. Does Suncor announce when they buy dump trucks? I hear McDonalds bought new McFlurry machines. Great.

Post of the year

[rudder]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

That would be a management fantasy at discounted wages and WAWCON.

More likely all of the 321XLR’s will end up in Rouge paint.

Perhaps if AC offered 330 pay for all ROUGE pilots in a TRZ type scheduling arrangement that would work? Don’t see that happening.

From a customer point of view, when I see a Rouge tail towed or taxied to the gate, I'm an unhappy passenger.

It absolutely vitiates the experience.

Once the dust settles, hopefully Rouge will just be a paint job and fare code.

There is no reason that AC cannot offer a premium experience (J class lay flat on longer haul NB) and a discount experience (basic economy perhaps minus the high density seating configuration) on the same aircraft. The old Rouge 767’s are gone (freighters). The older Rouge 319/320/321’s will eventually follow and be replaced by newer re-engined versions.

Collective bargaining outcomes may be the catalyst to evaluate the Rouge model.

Brand matters. AC has a good brand reputation. Rouge has perhaps outlived its usefulness.

[BTD]

There is still a sizeable number of passengers that travel for business etc. That don’t book J class, for a variety of reasons, but still want a mainline economy product to ride on. I’d hazard a guess we would see the 737 at rouge before the 320XLR.

I hate seeing rouge flying to non vacation destinations.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I've heard rumors being thrown around about a consideration toward the A350. Would that be something AC would consider?


I don't think airlines should depend on one provider (Boeing) for their fleet. It's good to have a mix fleet of Airbus/Boeing when you're the size of AC or larger.

[yowflyer23]

I've heard rumors being thrown around about a consideration toward the A350. Would that be something AC would consider?


I don't think airlines should depend on one provider (Boeing) for their fleet. It's good to have a mix fleet of Airbus/Boeing when you're the size of AC or larger.

It's the only next generation plane that can fulfill the missions to India/Eastern Canada to China without significant payload restrictions. I could see it happen.

[Old fella]

A few years ago in one of the refresher courses I was in, MS said they needed the range of the 200LRs for some of the Australian flying. The -10 definitely doesn’t have that range. But maybe something has changed route wise.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they move the 330s to rouge. We are still down 25 fins in that regard.

That would be a management fantasy at discounted wages and WAWCON.

More likely all of the 321XLR’s will end up in Rouge paint.

Perhaps if AC offered 330 pay for all ROUGE pilots in a TRZ type scheduling arrangement that would work? Don’t see that happening.

From a customer point of view, when I see a Rouge tail towed or taxied to the gate, I'm an unhappy passenger.

It absolutely vitiates the experience.

Have to agree, currently doing a trip to upstate NY, on a Rouge A319 out of YQM as that was only option due late booking situation. Jazz cancelled us out of YYZ - EWR so ended up through ORD with United. Quite the difference in Rouge and United on similar aircraft type A319, Rouge seating not comfortable and inflight well no comparison. Hopefully Rouge fades away.

[Inverted2]

Should have tried Rouge transatlantic on a 767 if you want see truly uncomfortable. 8 hours of Hell.

[RippleRock]

Should have tried Rouge transatlantic on a 767 if you want see truly uncomfortable. 8 hours of Hell.

Few flights were that long. We had 31" seat pitch compared to the 29" on the 319. Seven across in the back had one middle seat, 4 aisle seats, and two windows. Not bad. Never had anyone complain that didn't board the aircraft grumpy.

Not sure where you got this info.

[Inverted2]

Should have tried Rouge transatlantic on a 767 if you want see truly uncomfortable. 8 hours of Hell.

Few flights were that long. We had 31" seat pitch compared to the 29" on the 319. Seven across in the back had one middle seat, 4 aisle seats, and two windows. Not bad. Never had anyone complain that didn't board the aircraft grumpy.

Not sure where you got this info.

Toronto to Venice. Was on the plane for 8 hrs from boarding to deplaning. Was pretty cramped in economy. I’m 6’1” so very little leg room.

[Old fella]

Should have tried Rouge transatlantic on a 767 if you want see truly uncomfortable. 8 hours of Hell.

Never had that pleasure, but did hear from others who did say the Rouge ‘67 overseas operations wasn’t great due rather cramped seating. Flew final leg from ORD to SYR on ‘37 Max United Airlines , very nice ac from pax prospective comfortable plane , nice interior lighting. My first time on one, no doubt Air Canada ‘37 Max are similar.