How I love Transport

[Panic]

Background:

-passed my flight test a month ago
-paperwork has been completed since then
-CFI of school gets let go the day before he is supposed to sign off

Go to Transport to get signed off. Person behind the desk is quite helpful, mentioning that they were discussing what to do about people from that FTU now that the CFI was gone. Says she will get Licensing person to come talk to me.

Licensing person appears (and looks rather "cheerful") and starts to flip through my PTR, obviously scrutinizing for anything that can make me go away. Stops at the ground school page: "this isn't proper groundschool." I ask what she means and she tells me that it isn't in the same language as defined in the regulations. I point out that each class has been signed off and another instructor has signed off on the total hours.

"I don't know that." (I guess "Theory of Flight" and "Flight Dynamics" and "Aircraft Performance" aren't the same thing... )

"Too bad" she tells me, get the FTU (I have switched schools from where I took the groundschool) to call her and verify that the hours are the same. So I ask if I can come back tomorrow once they call her and she will sign off.

"20-40 working days" is the response. I try to ask to get something sped up as I have already wasted a month and another 40 days makes it 3 months in total.

Response: no. Nice attitude....good to see that (a) willing to help me out after being put in a bind (b) willing to use the thing between your ears. Seem to recall paying for this service as well.

I go back to work and remind co-workers if I ever go work for the government to put a bullet between my eyes.

[TC Guy]

Background:

-passed my flight test a month ago
-paperwork has been completed since then
-CFI of school gets let go the day before he is supposed to sign off

Go to Transport to get signed off. Person behind the desk is quite helpful, mentioning that they were discussing what to do about people from that FTU now that the CFI was gone. Says she will get Licensing person to come talk to me.

Licensing person appears (and looks rather "cheerful") and starts to flip through my PTR, obviously scrutinizing for anything that can make me go away. Stops at the ground school page: "this isn't proper groundschool." I ask what she means and she tells me that it isn't in the same language as defined in the regulations. I point out that each class has been signed off and another instructor has signed off on the total hours.

"I don't know that." (I guess "Theory of Flight" and "Flight Dynamics" and "Aircraft Performance" aren't the same thing... )

"Too bad" she tells me, get the FTU (I have switched schools from where I took the groundschool) to call her and verify that the hours are the same. So I ask if I can come back tomorrow once they call her and she will sign off.

"20-40 working days" is the response. I try to ask to get something sped up as I have already wasted a month and another 40 days makes it 3 months in total.

Response: no. Nice attitude....good to see that (a) willing to help me out after being put in a bind (b) willing to use the thing between your ears. Seem to recall paying for this service as well.

I go back to work and remind co-workers if I ever go work for the government to put a bullet between my eyes.

I am sorry for your negative experience. There are standards that we are supposed to uphold, and groundschool is one of them.

You must also realize that there is a reasonable expectation of the Flight Training Unit to check to make sure you have the proper requirements prior to commencing the licencing process with TC. You gave them between $6,000 and $8,000 or more!

Interestingly enough, most flight schools wouldn't let you get that far, because an Authorized Person (sometimes the CFI, but certainly not always) would check and get the additional information, as required. I realize your circumstances may have been different (the CFI being fired, for example) and that is unfortunate.

Transport Canada's mandated service levels are here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... 2_att2.htm)

As you can see, the mandated level is 20-40 days from receiving the completed documentation. The month that you say was wasted has nothing to do with TC-- that is between you and your Flight Training Unit. The applications are taken on a "first come, first served" basis.

I would suggest that if you would like your temporary privileges signed off, you will find an Authorized Person at another Flight Training Unit. Then, you will be able to exercise your PPL privileges while your perminent licence is being processed by TC.

I can understand your frustration with the process, but I would suggest part of that frustartion is not knowing how the process works. That is where you need to use the expertise of your Flight School.

Good luck!

-Guy

[. ._]

I've been in Sudbury for 6 months, and am still waiting for my new licence with the address change.

-istp

[Dust Devil]

Background:

-passed my flight test a month ago
-paperwork has been completed since then
-CFI of school gets let go the day before he is supposed to sign off

Go to Transport to get signed off. Person behind the desk is quite helpful, mentioning that they were discussing what to do about people from that FTU now that the CFI was gone. Says she will get Licensing person to come talk to me.

Licensing person appears (and looks rather "cheerful") and starts to flip through my PTR, obviously scrutinizing for anything that can make me go away. Stops at the ground school page: "this isn't proper groundschool." I ask what she means and she tells me that it isn't in the same language as defined in the regulations. I point out that each class has been signed off and another instructor has signed off on the total hours.

"I don't know that." (I guess "Theory of Flight" and "Flight Dynamics" and "Aircraft Performance" aren't the same thing... )

"Too bad" she tells me, get the FTU (I have switched schools from where I took the groundschool) to call her and verify that the hours are the same. So I ask if I can come back tomorrow once they call her and she will sign off.

"20-40 working days" is the response. I try to ask to get something sped up as I have already wasted a month and another 40 days makes it 3 months in total.

Response: no. Nice attitude....good to see that (a) willing to help me out after being put in a bind (b) willing to use the thing between your ears. Seem to recall paying for this service as well.

I go back to work and remind co-workers if I ever go work for the government to put a bullet between my eyes.

I am sorry for your negative experience. There are standards that we are supposed to uphold, and groundschool is one of them.

You must also realize that there is a reasonable expectation of the Flight Training Unit to check to make sure you have the proper requirements prior to commencing the licencing process with TC. You gave them between $6,000 and $8,000 or more!

Interestingly enough, most flight schools wouldn't let you get that far, because an Authorized Person (sometimes the CFI, but certainly not always) would check and get the additional information, as required. I realize your circumstances may have been different (the CFI being fired, for example) and that is unfortunate.

Transport Canada's mandated service levels are here:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/gener ... 2_att2.htm)

As you can see, the mandated level is 20-40 days from receiving the completed documentation. The month that you say was wasted has nothing to do with TC-- that is between you and your Flight Training Unit. The applications are taken on a "first come, first served" basis.

I would suggest that if you would like your temporary privileges signed off, you will find an Authorized Person at another Flight Training Unit. Then, you will be able to exercise your PPL privileges while your perminent licence is being processed by TC.

I can understand your frustration with the process, but I would suggest part of that frustartion is not knowing how the process works. That is where you need to use the expertise of your Flight School.

Good luck!

-Guy

Circle the wagons boys

[TC Guy]

I've been in Sudbury for 6 months, and am still waiting for my new licence with the address change.

-istp

Well, that is well outside the standards. If you haven't already, please contact the office you submitted the address change to.

For the record, TC will require a FAX or other written request if you require an address change. E-mail (even with a scanned signature) is not yet accepted.

If you continue to have difficulties, let me know, I will see what I can do.

-Guy

[TC Guy]

Circle the wagons boys

Well, if that is reference to my response, my only function here is to provide information. And, perhaps, in some instances, an inside perspective.

I am not here to create discourse.

-Guy

[Lurch]

Gotta love this guy no matter how many times or ways we bash TC TC Guy is there to ease or concerns and does it perfessionally every time no matter how harshly we are giving it to them.

[sprucemonkey]

Couldn't possibly be from the TBay office.

[charlie_g]

Gotta love this guy no matter how many times or ways we bash TC TC Guy is there to ease or concerns and does it perfessionally every time no matter how harshly we are giving it to them.

I sometimes wish I had that kind of patience/restraint when responding to posts! Might add a few years to my life....!

[55+]

Gotta love this guy no matter how many times or ways we bash TC TC Guy is there to ease or concerns and does it perfessionally every time no matter how harshly we are giving it to them.

This person(TC Guy) is an example of the manycountless fine individuals I had the pleasure of working with during my own days at TC. Very good people indeed.............

[The Old Fogducker]

Unless there has been a recent change, TC won't issue a new licence for a simple address change. It is placed on file for future contact and if there is a change in your status, like an IFR renewal or a type rating added, nothing happens.

So its a good thing you weren't holding your breath for those 6 months!

Fog

[. ._]

Gotta love this guy no matter how many times or ways we bash TC TC Guy is there to ease or concerns and does it perfessionally every time no matter how harshly we are giving it to them.

I agree!

-istp

[TC Guy]

Unless there has been a recent change, TC won't issue a new licence for a simple address change. It is placed on file for future contact and if there is a change in your status, like an IFR renewal or a type rating added, nothing happens.

So its a good thing you weren't holding your breath for those 6 months!

Fog

There may be some regional differences. Interesting.

-Guy

[trey kule]

I hate to interupt the group hug here, but am I the only one that thinks 20-40 days is unreasonable?

Particularily with a commercial license, this seems to me to be a little excessive.

[Panic]

I can understand your frustration with the process, but I would suggest part of that frustartion is not knowing how the process works. That is where you need to use the expertise of your Flight School.

Thanks for the response - appreciate the response from someone on the other side. Agree that my Flight School didn't do their part.

I just don't understand a few things:

-the F-off attitude I received at the desk: if one of my employees treated a customer like that, their next stop would be the door
-20-40 days? That seems like a set up for a bad government joke.
-(I know I am going to sound like Cat Driver here) But why the "regulations are the only way" response? Is professional judgment not allowed?

[TC Guy]

I hate to interupt the group hug here, but am I the only one that thinks 20-40 days is unreasonable?

Particularily with a commercial license, this seems to me to be a little excessive.

How so, Trey?

First of all, normal (in my region, I cannot speak for others) is well under the mandated "normal" time (20 business days).

Secondly, an AP will sign the back of the licence for immediate additional privileges. Immediate ability to use the new privileges.

Lets take a look at the typical licence to be processed in my region.

Day One:
The Authorized person finishes off their end of things, and signs the back of the permit/licence for additional privileges. They now have 5 business days to forward it to TC.

Day Six: (and I am being rather generous here to be honest)
The licence application and all supporting documentation is received by TC, and sent to records for Scanning.

Day Eight:
Your application goes into the Licencing Inbox behind aproximately 100+ SPP/Rec/PPL/CPL/ATPL/Address Change/Name Change/Night/Multi/IFR/Type Ratings/PPCs/etc that are ahead of you.

Day Fifteen: (7 business days, but could realistically be between 5-15)
Your licence is being processed, and thankfully the Authorized person did a fine job and there were no mistakes. If they HAD made mistakes such as addition, groundschool subjects, mis-measuring cross country distances, instruemt time not properly recorded, etc., this can take a week or more to clear up, depending on how easy it is to get the information from the Flight School/Authorized person.

Your Licence is printed out, put in an envelope, and put into the "outbox".

Day Sixteen:
You licence is send to the address shown on the application.

Day Eighteen+:
You receive your licence in the mail.

Of course, this is with a fairly typical licencing load, and if RDIMS (the Transport Canada digital document system) doesn't crash more than 50 times in the typical day.

Oh, and no holidays.

It doesn't seem so unreasonable to me. And when I was in industry, it didn't either. I always got my licence signed off and used it... then sometime in the future my perminent one would magically show up in the mail.

Well, there ya go.

-Guy

[trey kule]

Ah, TC, I misunderstood. It is the heat, the mosquitoes, or those damn vegetarian tree huggers. I understood it to mean that Transport's processing time alone was 20 to 40 days. And that was only "business" days, which meant two months for transport to process it on top of all the others and mailing time.

And while I still think 40 days is excessive, you are quite right about the immediate priveleges. Please accept my apology.

Just as anside though, I can remember when you could walk into a TC office with your documentation and walk out a half hour later with your license or endorsement.

[TC Guy]

I just don't understand a few things:

-the F-off attitude I received at the desk: if one of my employees treated a customer like that, their next stop would be the door

This is regrettable. I am sorry your experience was a negative one.

-20-40 days? That seems like a set up for a bad government joke.

As I have stated before, you have the option of going to an Authorized person at a Flight Training Unit, have them process your PPL, and sign the back for temporary additional privileges.

Typically, TC will not give temporary privileges because the thinking (as I understand it) is that people such as yourself should be using the Authorized Persons-- that's why they are delegated.

-(I know I am going to sound like Cat Driver here) But why the "regulations are the only way" response? Is professional judgment not allowed?

LOL, I like Cat!

My friend, it is law. Where do you draw the line?

I am afraid that the people doing the licencing are not given "artistic leeway"-- if they were, you would have licencing anarchy. Not good.

Anyways. That is the system (as I see it and understand it... small cog, big machine... you know the drill).

-Guy

[TC Guy]

Just as anside though, I can remember when you could walk into a TC office with your documentation and walk out a half hour later with your license or endorsement.

Well, they are closing positions, delegating everything to industry.

I believe we used to have the manpower to do that easily. It is no longer our mandate, although we do try and go the extra mile when possible.

Goverment, like many private companies, is giving us less, and expecting more. The public then expects service from the government that has been delegated to industry. The public gets "unhappy" when the government no longer provides this service.

Then people yell at poor TC Guy.

(LOL, just kiddin. Really.)

-Guy

[Blue Side Down]

Ok, I'll chime in here, just to show a bit of the other side...


I walked into the Hamilton TC office the other week, totally unannounced, with an internet-printed rating application in hand. Up the stairs and to the desk I go...

I really didn't expect things to go anywhere fast- but to my surprize, ten minutes later, and thirty bucks lighter, I was back out the door with a brand spankin new license in hand, complete with the additional endorsement. Many thanks for that one...

[No more BS]

TC Guy.

I am talking for myself here: I really apreciate that you explain everything.

I have been in the industry for 11 years now and I kinda figured out how the airline operation side work, but it's nice to get a little insight on what's going on on the other side (regulation side).

[TC Guy]

TC Guy.

I am talking for myself here: I really apreciate that you explain everything.

I have been in the industry for 11 years now and I kinda figured out how the airline operation side work, but it's nice to get a little insight on what's going on on the other side (regulation side).

I apprecaite all the support.

I do this on my own time, without the knowlege/blessing of the department.

Something that needs to be done.

-Guy

[Hedley]

Long-suffering TC guy wrote:

Goverment ... is giving us less

I honestly have trouble believing that.

Transport spends hundreds of thousands of dollars chasing me around (having Inspectors follow me from airport to airport to secretly videotape me in the circuit) and dragging me into court after court after court after court, spending money on transporting witnesses and hotel rooms and food for them, not to mention all the DOJ and Transport lawyers and discoveries and depositions ... hardly a day goes by, that I don't get another letter from my buddies at Transport, whom I understand have their axe to grind.

You guys have money to burn, and often do so.

If you don't, why do you waste it so, chasing insignificant people like me around? I know no one cares about the facts, but I have never even dented an aircraft.

I will try really hard to not mention the EH-101 cancellation, the gun registry, the Quebec sponsorship scandal or used, leaky british submarines that seem prone to catch on fire, or the $35M Transport blew on the Toronto Island bridge.

[trey kule]

As the young pups say Hedley...Pffft. ..chasing you around is pocket change to TC, and good sport as well as excellent training in case there ever is a real reason to harass someone.

As to spending big money....Studies have shown, over and over, that in order to remain current (read: SAFE) on complex, high performance aircraft, a pilot needs to fly a minimum of 120 hours/year. Yet TC pilots seldom get even 1/3 of that.. Which means....three times as many pilots are trained each year as is necessary. Why? Skip all the beaurcratic BS and you will see it is nothing more than a job perk....at a cost of millions to the taxpayers...and they are not safe. TC could scrap its flight training department (again.skip the TC BS..everywhere but in an anal banana republic you can outsource), train 1/8 of the people they do and save millions and be safer.

And yes I am doing more than ranting, but it is really hard to get to the minister through the peons who want their turf protected. Feel free if you agree to start a movement.

[TC Guy]

If you don't, why do you waste it so, chasing insignificant people like me around? I know no one cares about the facts, but I have never even dented an aircraft.

Hedley, I have no idea who you are, but you must be a pretty interesting person to attract all that attention.

I will try really hard to not mention the EH-101 cancellation, the gun registry, the Quebec sponsorship scandal or used, leaky british submarines that seem prone to catch on fire, or the $35M Transport blew on the Toronto Island bridge.

I have no idea about the Toronto Island bridge... but I have to agree with the other rather poor decisions the Federal Gov't has made in the past.

I can say that the current climate around TC is one of "Delegation to Industry" in order to trim the bottom line. What do you think one of the underlying motivations for SMS?

-Guy